I don't know if this is going to sound horribly arrogant...

[Duamutef]

...But I'm gonna say it anyway.

I've been reading about the MMOVRPG and what you'd like to see in it, and making an MMOVRPG has long been a dream of mine that I just went ahead and assumed was blatantly impossible. I wasn't planning to volunteer on this one mostly because I'm a dick and would rather work on my own projects.

I noticed Kaliera saying that development is on pause. This is something I have dealt with many times. Busting through pauses is probably what I'm simultaneously best and worst at--while I often declare projects dead because they become unworkable or turn out to suck, I've just as often broken through and taken things to completion (or at least accomplished whatever my initial goals were). Whatever my limitations, I'll say this--I know how to plan projects to get finished. They won't always be what I expected, and there may be problems that never got solved (coughVRPGANDITSGODDAMNOCXFILEcough) but the project will get finished if I think it's important.

I think that's the best thing I could contribute. I can figure out how to actually get the thing done in a sane way under the limitations we have and coordinate the team's efforts accordingly. Yes, I can code, model, write and blah blah blah, but plenty of projects have failed with tons of 3D modellers and coders onboard--in fact, that's the reason I refuse to contribute code or models to other people's projects. (And that, in turn, is why I rarely solicit help for my own projects...I'd be a bit of a hypocrite.) But direction is the kind of help I am willing to give.

Trouble is, I know creative control can be important, and if I'm any sort of project director I'm inevitably going to be overlapping with the role of the designers. You can't nail down the steps without nailing down the goals, so I'm going to be getting my inky creative fingerprints over all kinds of things. I'm fine with sharing--I don't hold my ideas to be sacred. Sure, Ishara would be a great setting for the game in my opinion, but I'm really really biased, so I'm obviously not going to make it a condition for my help. And if we did decide to use it and people wanted to add males or tweak other stuff for the sake of appealing to more than my own little niche tastes, I'd be all for that (in fact, I'd basically assume it to be the case). But no matter what happened I'd have a strong influence out of necessity, and I don't want to sneak in in the middle of the night and steal Kaliera's baby, as it were. (Unless he wants me to because he's sick of dealing with it...)

The question of the game world is a great example, because it's rather baby-stealing and it would have to happen right off the bat. The setting is one of those things that can't be nebulous when you're making a real plan. Ishara or not, the world needs to be established as something, because so many other things are dependant on it. We'd need to know what would be going on and how things would work before we could figure out how to implement those things. Before we can know those things, we need to know what world we're building. And I'd make the case for Ishara because it cuts the world design time to basically nothing.

But with me dictating what needs to be designed and when, it suddenly looks like it's tyrannical old Duamutef's baby, whether I'm lead designer or not. And I don't want to do that without the original parent's consent.

So.

I am offering my help in breaking this project out of haitus, if the team is still interested and if Kaliera is willing to let me steal away the requisite authority. In exchange I'll do everything I can to ensure that the project sees the light of day--starting with scrutinizing Realm Crafter to see if we're wasting our time. (Evaluating project feasability according to your tools should always be one of the first steps, and Kaliera already mentioned it's got some problems--I'll need to know what those are.)

With that comes with the warning that I will be taking it out of the idea stage and into the execution stage as quickly as possible. Dallying in the idea stage is a singularly notorious project killer. I'm plenty open to implementing other people's ideas, but the brainstorming stages will not last long, and I'm likely to veto anything that sounds like it would be hard to put into practice--and this will be a lot of things. Indie teams with no money have to be very thrifty with their time and very focused in their effort. I'm a miser with both. But the game will get finished, and it might even be good.

I'll turn the concepts into blueprints. I'll hand out the maps, cover the gaps and make sure everything keeps moving in a coherent direction. I will set the timetables and crack the whip when required. I'll basically be the project's tyrannical second in command, and I'll be able to fill in for Kaliera when he's overloaded (like now). You guys will decide what you want the game to be and I'll chart a path to make sure it gets there.

So that's it. If you're not hot on this idea, s'no biggie. Just let this thread die quietly and I'll go about my business.

But if you want to win a war, sometimes it helps to have someone who's lived through the trenches...

[dbltrouble]

Talented people who know what they are doing and give honest constructive criticism are allowed to be horribly arrogant.

[Rat_Guy]

I have no comment, other than: I would like to see the MMOVRPG done in any way at all. I guess I side with Duamutef, that its Kaliera's call.

[soline]

heheheh you coughed with words.....

[quicks]

well, keep in mind that we are still strongly awaiting vrpg2

personally id like to have that sooner, cause i think that a full mmo project is something much further away

i know the "dont bite off more than you can chew" theory normally doesnt apply to vore, but only if you engage in more projects... we have to wait longer to see them

either way. glad you do what you can, we're all big fans

[Gamera]

Hoo Rah!!

[Journeyman]

Incidentally, I too am working on a vore mmorpg... I will be quite interested in seeing if this project comes back from its "on pause" status--I had breathed a sigh of relief/contentment back when it was paused, as I don't really have competition in mind, but if you get this project revived, I may end up turning to another venue/audience.

[quicks]

i would like to see more small scale vore flash projects and the occassional big project like the vmmo or vrpg.

[Delete6296b268g]

I've been quietly working on some mmorpg stuff myself. It's hopefully going to be some manner of top down final fantasy 3/6 stuff in the end, though I'd happily settle for some manner of Roguelike - which was the original aim. Still, I make no claims to being anywhere near even starting on the source code. It's more of a hobby and a dream than anything else. I've been working on it for years already, so I can really side with Duamutef on this one in saying it's a long shot to even consider at this point.

[Varenx]

Great points there, especially about organization and strong leadership that tell people what to do. It might indeed sound a bit harsh but development usually works that way, perhaps this goes even more to game development, especially when the team members don't meet every day or don't meet at all. To get started with that, it would be good to know what has been done so far (models at very least?) and what's need to be done in the future.

[Queen_Haruka]

It all goes back to Murphy's law. "If you build it we will come."

Dallying in the idea phrase is a problem that many young programers, artists, and writers have, myself included. The best thing to do is just to start on what you definately know is going to be in the game and let the ideas flow as you go. Some day you'll have to draw a line on your creativity so that the game can be finished and produced....but then you can continue to update the game and make it better as long as it doesn't bring the game economy out of wack or something along those lines.

And make sure the majority of the game fans will enjoy it. I've been a big fan of MMORPG's myself and I've known more than one MMORPG be ruined with a single update. Take the great combat update of Star Wars Galaxies for example. They decided that the current combat system didn't give the Jedi enough power....so they redid the combat system to make the Jedi total dominators of every battle.

All the bounty hunters, combat medics, and countless other players got upset and produced an outcry over the forums. After a few months of this the staff posted a rather nasty message that they would never change the game no matter how many people complained. This was the way the game was going to be from now on....and if we didn't like it we could leave. So about 60% of the players left in that one weeks and countless more in the weeks to come.

So don't make the mistake of not listening to other players.

But yeah....thats my little rant! Good luck to whomever gets the responcibility to take over the game!

[Varenx]

There is one thing that must be clear for everyone waiting for this project (including myself of course! ) Such a game is a great challange to make and everyone works on it (is going to work on it? ) in their freetime, and vore is such a magnificient topic it would be impossible to make it perfect for every single player's taste. Just as an example, many vorarephiles think of vore as a sexual fetish of some kind, but that'd be off limits in a game you must get over that. It's simply impossible (well, nearly impossible. As in, very complicated) to add such a feature to the game.
Apart from this point, of course the future player's oppinions must be taken as guidance otherwise no one would ever play the game which would dry it up, making the whole bunch of work pointless except for our very own entertainment. I guess that's not we're all after, is it?
On my part, I'm looking forward to hear a word from the official team leader(s) how things will go on, it'd be great to take part out of this game.

[deleted188]

I am happy to see so much interest in this project. My goals here do not ammount to anything more than wanting to see this project done. I find that I cannot commit nearly enough time to it nor do I have the energy to support a fullscale project like this, life has a way of changing really fast. I am glad to see Duamutef interested in breathing new life into this thing, If you could Duamutef, please contact me and we can chat about this a bit more.

[Rat_Guy]

and let us know what you decide please.

[Varenx]

Yeah, that would be great too! Even though I'm pretty sure we WILL figure the decision if one day Duamutef appears with a whip held in his hands yelling "All right ye scum get to work!!" What a blessed day that would be, wouldn't it?

[Baz]

Whoever ends up running it, I'm happy to lend my writing talents

[Rat_Guy]

did you guys eventually make a decision?

[Praexon]

I would think Duamutef qualified to lead the MMOVRPG project since he's already proven himself very well capable of the last four letters.

A project this ambitious will need to start modestly or it will never see a finished product. But whenever I imagine the final product, a functioning MMOVRPG engine, it just feels epic. It will not be an easy project, but with proper coordination and enough time, I believe the community's resources would be enough to do it.

These game programs are facinating. Duamutef's VRPG was a simulated world with a simulated ecosystem. The monsters in the early part of the game were truly frightening because they could devour you. Then you gain levels and ascend the food chain, and you are able to catch and devour them. It made for very fun game-play; it had something you could not find in games outside of the community.

The MMOVRPG is the same good idea taken to the next level. A simulated world that exists externally to the user's computer, with an ecosystem that mixes AI with human-controlled characters. It's hard not to be exited by that thought, even if it will only be a glitchy, miminally-customizable skeleton of a game at first.

[2b7q8]

I think Duam is the single best person in existence that could actually accomplish something like this.

I mean, unless Carmack had a change of plan or something.

[Epsilon_Dark]

I think Duam is the single best person in existence that could actually accomplish something like this.

I mean, unless Carmack had a change of plan or something.

i will agree with you 2b7q8