I'm starting tohate vore rpgs

[TheVoreEngineer]

There are tons of people who enjoy grinding.

That is to say there are tons of people who enjoy grinding when it's an important mechanic and not a way to artificially lengthen a game.

Just look at minecraft. The entire game is basically a form of grinding, in which you are mining for resources.

Look at Cookie Clicker a game that is literally NOTHING but grinding with almost no player interaction.

Most games with a leveling system have grinding as a core gameplay aspect.

If it was reviled by MOST players it wouldn't be done because people would shun the games they are in, the problem is when it is a transparrent attempt to make a short game feel long.

As it is, YES, most people enjoy grinding.

For a response to someone who generally agrees with your point, this feels a bit aggressive, but I guess I can attempt to explain my side a little better. I'll go over each point, plus a little bonus.
First off, in my points, I was referring specifically to the JRPG genre of game, which generally consists of the general turn based combat seen in many vore games, as well as exploration aspects by allowing the player with themselves and possibly a party of followers to complete a specific goal. Sure, grinding can be applied to other genres as well, it can be confused, but it consistently presents the biggest problem in the JRPG genre of games.

There are tons of people who enjoy grinding
Look, I'm not going to go to everyone and poll "Do you like grinding in video games" for the sake of the argument, but at least from my personal social circle which comprises mainly of nerdy shut in's such as myself, we seem to agree to the fact that grinding in games is generally a negative aspect unless the grinding can provide a unique aspect to the game that otherwise couldn't be introduced, which mind you Very few games can do well (an example that comes to mind is the EV training of Pokemon based off different encounters, even then only is semi decent.)

Just look at minecraft. The entire game is basically a form of grinding, in which you are mining for resources.
Besides this isn't addressing my point to do with JRPG's, it still stands as an example I guess, but a poor one at that. Yes, I'm not going to defend that Minecraft is a game that is loaded with grinding, however, Minecraft's grinding isn't imposed, which makes the situation a much different story. Yes, looking for diamonds is indeed a grind, but you have the absolute freedom in Minecraft to decide "Hey, actually I might go build for a while" or "I might start looking for the end portal". This, in turn, creates a much different effect than "Kill 5 dire wolves to be powerful enough to kill the first boss", which is more the grinding style you'll find in JRPG's.

Look at Cookie Clicker a game that is literally NOTHING but grinding with almost no player interaction.
Also, again another example that while technically true, it doesn't really further the discussion further. Do we have an infinite clicker vore game? (If there is actually one, sorry for implying you don't exist.) Again, your central issue here is that the game has two differences to the games that seem to be critiqued by OP. First off, when coming into Cookie Clicker, one knows that they will be clicking a cookie, yes a repetitive task, therefore grinding, but the bigger thing here is that the satisfaction and the reward comes out of the gameplay rather than any story. People specifically play cookie clicker to see how high the cookie amount will go, rather than some epic questline about the Grandma's taking over your cookie corporation. In a JRPG, most grinding comes to issue with it not serving as anything more than a gameplay filler to keep a player to a game for longer. Which you also state...

If it was reviled by MOST players it wouldn't be done because people would shun the games they are in, the problem is when it is a transparrent attempt to make a short game feel long.
I disagree with the first bit there, in a sense of RPG's the only real reason that grinding to the game would be to artificially increase the length of time it takes to complete the game, which is why I agree with your second point here, but in a different way. All grinding is purposefully done to elongate a JRPG, but the better games are much better at hiding the transparency behind such tactics, using either new interactions with enemies or by making grinding a much less repetitive chore, to call to example here the game "Bravely Default" where not only could you make grinding faster by boosting the XP rate, but also by making easier battles nearly instant to complete due to the Brave feature, which while it doesn't fix the core issues of grinding, it minimizes the time you have to dedicate to it.

Most games with a leveling system have grinding as a core gameplay aspect.
Yes, but as previously stated, it is not much more than an extension tactic. It may also act as a gating tactic as well, making sure that players do engage in combat so that the game isn't able to be run through at such speeds that the game feels unsubstantial to the product owner. (Them speedrunners though, 10/10 glitches right there.) Look, this also relates to the passage above, but at the end of the day, the mechanic doesn't exist to be beneficial to the player in a gameplay sense, but to make sure that a customer feels satisfied in the completion of the game, because lets face it, do you feel more accomplished beating a 10 hour shooter, or a 200 hour long "epic" of an RPG. But this is the only point that relates back to the fact we are talking about Vore RPG's here. Specifically, these mechanics in a Vore RPG don't need to exist, because The entire gratification of the game comes from the combat results. because us as players are drawn to combat to gain the gratification of playing the game, these games less so need such mechanics.

As it is, YES, most people enjoy grinding.
Look, again, refer to my first point. But overall, the messages you're posting seem to indicate that you have the notion that grinding is a good thing, and you are allowed to have that opinion, however you push that opinion onto others, that most people obviously enjoy grinding because I do. All I want to do is provide an analytical point to a debate here, stating that what the OP is complaining about is indeed a valid complaint he can have and express, but at the same time he has to accept these design choices because he is not putting in the free resources to produce such a thing. Everyone is able to have a myriad of opinions, I'm sure people won't agree with the points I presented here either, but that is the whole point of a discussion, to be able to express a viewpoint regarding a topic, is it not?

[VVVx]

Ok you are allowed to feel as if the sentiment of the OP is bullshit, but the statement of "many people enjoy grinding" is quite incorrect. While I am sure that there are the few in the world that have an enjoyment for grinding based on the repetitive content which may act as an effective method to calm one's self down, but I can assure you that the majority of individuals who play games would mostly prefer to not have to grind. However, I would more conclude that people, when going into any JRPG would be understanding enough that they will have to put up with grinding. If you are playing any JRPG beyond the easiest ones, you will most likely need to grind at some point as it's a general design philosophy within the genre of game. Even critically acclaimed games such as FF7 or Chrono Trigger, you still have to grind in them. I know personally, I do not enjoy grinding at all, which makes me personally hard to impress with a JRPG. Games such as Pokemon with their expansive multiplayer content and less grinding filled campaign, or games such as the ones mentioned above due to how the game's story plays out or how engaging the combat is. However, in V-JRPG's, we hit two big snags, the combat if present is designed to be basic, and the value of the game doesn't come from the overall story, but from the short bursts of fetish content sprinkled in within loss or victories in individual battles.

To address OP here, the point made by 0Anesthetic4u is a good one, however. You, as someone who is consuming the content for free with no help or addition to the project, don't have any control over how the project goes ahead. Since there is no paid product here, it really is a case of if you cannot get over how the game handles its difficulty curve, then the best solution is to move to a different project that handles the difficulty of the game better to how you wish to experience the genre. There really is little else that can be done, unless you wish to begin your own project (which according to previous posts seems to not be possible at this current time.)

But, a note to you also 0Anesthetic4u is that, even if they may not have influence or have too much basis to how you view the argument, OP is still allowed to express these opinions and partake in a discussion. No doubt, the games that do feature combat on the Portal do most usually have balancing issues, but personally, I do not let it dampen my enjoyment of the projects, as I am not playing a project for stellar gameplay. There is no need to try and shut down discussion because you personally disagree with the viewpoints of OP.

There are tons of people who enjoy grinding.

That is to say there are tons of people who enjoy grinding when it's an important mechanic and not a way to artificially lengthen a game.

Just look at minecraft. The entire game is basically a form of grinding, in which you are mining for resources.

Look at Cookie Clicker a game that is literally NOTHING but grinding with almost no player interaction.

Most games with a leveling system have grinding as a core gameplay aspect.

If it was reviled by MOST players it wouldn't be done because people would shun the games they are in, the problem is when it is a transparrent attempt to make a short game feel long.

As it is, YES, most people enjoy grinding.

This is an opinion of yours. Yes, there are people who enjoy grinding, but within the context of vore games, it seems like most users here would prefer games with less. That is what's relevant. In addition, games like you mentioned each have different elements as to why they became popular. Minecraft was an infinite world with a highly modifiable game, that worked on any PC platform, with multiplayer. The creativity you could exercise within it was boundless. Cookie Clicker blew up partially because it was simple enough that you didn't really have to pay any attention to it - heck, after a while you don't need to click at all. I remember watching my classmates play it at school, since it was easy enough to sneak it past teachers. Grinding isn't the core draw of even the most popular games that have it.

[ian66613]

Would you rather have a "Degrind" aspect but easily obtainable stats? IE: Instead of using the grind aspect to get stats/levels/exp and to fill the time between fetish content more, how about we make it so that you have to grind down your stats in certain situations via fetish sequences, IE: level drain enemies such as succubi/etc. This could off-put the balance between grinding and enjoying the game for fetish content.

In addition, there are games out there that have an EXP system for individual skills / weapons / etc. Such as Final Fantasy II for NES/PSP/GBA/etc. Or the Mabinogi MMORPG. Instead of character levels and exp, you just grind out abilities, a proficiency, etc. Using the bit above, certain enemies could drain/degrind out certain abilities/etc. better than others. (IE: Succubi draining mental abilities such as magic.)

But that would probably defeat the purpose in your head, right? Solve grinding with a different kind of grind mechanic using the fetish content to pass by certain areas. (IE: a town or boss that disallows you to travel safely through without being below a certain ability level/etc.) You could even start over completely by getting someone to un/rebirth you into a level 1, with completely clean stats/etc.

[Aleph-Null]

Some thoughts on the recent grinding debate,

There is a difference between grinding and a core gameplay loop. That difference is pretty much whether or not the player likes that gameplay loop. If a game primarily consists of a specific gameplay loop, for example, clicker games, people will only play these games when they are in the mood for that mechanic. As such those games are no more a grind than an arena FPS. That is to say repetition does not constitute a grind, undesirable repetition constitutes a grind.

The world of games is full of examples of developers attempting to "remove grinding", the problem is that they usually still need to gate content in some way. As an example, Bethesda created "leveled lists" in oblivion and has had that mechanic in all subsequent games, this makes it so you only experience level appropriate encounters. Many MMORPGs have implemented some form of "auto leveling" that applies modifiers to players in an attempt to allow lower level players to play with higher level players.

Where you start to see debate over grinding is when you have two separate fan bases of a game or genre. This is most evident when attempting to localize Japanese and Korean games in English speaking nations.

@ the OP,
Game balance and core gameplay is incredibly difficult to gauge. Remember that professional games have teams of people working on those aspects of gameplay, they usually build things out, and have focus groups review it and continue to tweak the game based on that feedback loop. It can be very hard for a single developer, even an industry veteran to create a game in a vacuum, and most developers hear have no experience.

I empathize with your view. But honestly, if I'm playing a game and I don't like it, I just stop playing and delete it. In my opinion, if you aren't going to contribute to the development, there is little point in commenting. I personally find it hard to give constructive criticism without sounding strongly negative, so I simply don't comment.

However, if you want to change the scope of gameplay in V-RPGs I recommend giving constructive feedback to developers early in development.