We should tag 'futa' and 'herm' as Transgender instead!

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We should tag 'futa' and 'herm' as Transgender instead!

Postby Dankthena » Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:39 pm

i know plenty of trans women on this site, including me and seeing naughties of us is veeery nice❤ help us girls out!
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Re: We should tag 'futa' and 'herm' as Transgender instead!

Postby bubbalubber » Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:50 pm

I agree trans characters need better representation but I disagree with changing futa and herm to transgender as in a lot of cases those characters arent trans.
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Re: We should tag 'futa' and 'herm' as Transgender instead!

Postby Gelus » Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:54 pm

It's a bit unfair to forcibly try and change the world-setups/lore of others and try to pigeonhole their own kinks to match your worldview. Most of the time futa and herm are entirely different genders than male or female, presented as additional types of people who just kinda happen (along with busty-boys, c-boys, male-bodytype herms, etc. and so forth), it's kind of... awful to forcibly reassign them to fit your own concepts of how things should be, I'd've expected as someone trans you would understand that a bit better, honestly.
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Re: We should tag 'futa' and 'herm' as Transgender instead!

Postby Bookie » Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:02 pm

bubbalubber wrote:I agree trans characters need better representation but I disagree with changing futa and herm to transgender as in a lot of cases those characters arent trans.


Basically this.
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Re: We should tag 'futa' and 'herm' as Transgender instead!

Postby DrakentheBlack » Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:29 pm

Got to disagree since they're completely different things. Futa/Herms are not guys or girls who think they are a different gender, they are a person who physically has both male and female genitals.
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Re: We should tag 'futa' and 'herm' as Transgender instead!

Postby YouCanFreshMyFresh » Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:38 pm

Gelus wrote:It's a bit unfair to forcibly try and change the world-setups/lore of others and try to pigeonhole their own kinks to match your worldview. Most of the time futa and herm are entirely different genders than male or female, presented as additional types of people who just kinda happen (along with busty-boys, c-boys, male-bodytype herms, etc. and so forth), it's kind of... awful to forcibly reassign them to fit your own concepts of how things should be, I'd've expected as someone trans you would understand that a bit better, honestly.

They're drawings, my dude, there's no real person being "forcibly reassigned." Real people have feelings, drawings don't, and it's messed up to treat the two as if they both have the same type of rights.
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Re: We should tag 'futa' and 'herm' as Transgender instead!

Postby Ignoreme79 » Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:40 pm

yea I feel that Trans, Herm, and Futa all describe very different things. Trans is a person who thinks they're a different gender than they were born with, Herm is someone with both sexual organs, and Futa is female breasts and male genitalia. This is just what I've experienced with these tags on the site so I may be missing some of the more subtle nuances of the terms, but I think they're good as is.
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Re: We should tag 'futa' and 'herm' as Transgender instead!

Postby Bradleymiddler » Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:45 pm

I appreciate the enthusiasm, but it wouldn't be true to most representations of characters who possess a wider spectrum of sexual characteristics. Herms or shemales or futas or c-boys or whatever you'd like to call them were *born* with their equipment as it is, transgender individuals have deliberately sought out surgeries and stuff to change that.
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Re: We should tag 'futa' and 'herm' as Transgender instead!

Postby Gelus » Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:47 pm

YouCanFreshMyFresh wrote:They're drawings, my dude, there's no real person being "forcibly reassigned." Real people have feelings, drawings don't, and it's messed up to treat the two as if they both have the same type of rights.


Were you dropped on the head as a child? I'm talking about the artists who created the drawings and had specific ideas in mind for the characters they've created, not the fictional characters themselves. It's disrespectful to them, you don't walk up on stage during a play and start telling people not to say their lines and say what you want instead. Well maybe you do, but people shouldn't.
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Re: We should tag 'futa' and 'herm' as Transgender instead!

Postby unicorn » Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:47 pm

"futa" and "herm" are fetish/fantasy terms, whereas trans is not. I can't really speak for trans folk since i am not one, but i'm fairly sure many would not want to be lumped together into a fetish category. Those terms are kind of offensive to many trans folk anyway...
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Re: We should tag 'futa' and 'herm' as Transgender instead!

Postby TETRO » Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:55 pm

Dankthena wrote:i know plenty of trans women on this site, including me and seeing naughties of us is veeery nice❤ help us girls out!

I disagree. I respect your right to do whatever you want and create transgender characters and what have you, but these terms are not synonymous. "Transgender" refers to how someone feels they should be relative to how they were born, while terms like "futa" or "herm" describe the way a character's body physically is.

"Futa" usually describes an otherwise completely female character who basically has her female genitals swapped out for male genitals. It's a fantasy fetish, not a fetish involving someone who went through some sort of sex change operation. This wasn't someone born male and given breast implants to feel more female. These characters were usually born this way, or made this way through some magical means. Other times, they're established female characters but with their girl-parts swapped out with boy-parts for the purposes of a pornographic scenario.

"Herm" (while sometimes misused to mean the same thing as futa) is short for "hermaphrodite" which refers to an organism with genitals that allows for it to function as both a male and a female, producing both sperm and eggs. Snails, earthworms, and many plants are real-life examples of hermaphrodites. In fetish fantasy, a character might have both a vagina and a penis, often with the vagina between the testes and the anus, depending on the artist's preferences. Other times, the genitals can between male and female "modes". Wikipedia, while not always the best, actually has a pretty good article on the scientific use of the term and how it used to be used: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermaphrodite

So again, do as you please and create all the transgender characters you want with whatever sort of bodies you want them to have. But also, let other people have the sorts of characters they want to as well and we can all get along. That's a great thing about this community: two people can use the same site and do as they please, even though they find each other's particular tastes absolutely disgusting.
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Re: We should tag 'futa' and 'herm' as Transgender instead!

Postby Renael » Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:11 pm

Futa IS NOT THE SAME as Transgender. Nor is herm, hermanphrodite means having both, Futa


The Japanese word for hermaphrodite, ‘futanari’ (双成り) literally means “made of a pair”. Futanari are usually hermaphrodites with otherwise feminine features (i.e. dick girls).

Futanari is not male or female.


Stop. It's incredibly insulting to trans people.
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Re: We should tag 'futa' and 'herm' as Transgender instead!

Postby OmaeWaMoShindeiru » Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:14 pm

hermaphrodites and futas are actually intersex. So if you want to be about representation, tag them as intersex instead unless they're like... dickgirls with breasts and then a cock and balls for genitals, then those can be tagged as transgender. or "cuntboys" which are also intersex
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Re: We should tag 'futa' and 'herm' as Transgender instead!

Postby Erastus » Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:52 pm

OmaeWaMoShindeiru wrote:hermaphrodites and futas are actually intersex. So if you want to be about representation, tag them as intersex instead unless they're like... dickgirls with breasts and then a cock and balls for genitals, then those can be tagged as transgender. or "cuntboys" which are also intersex

i gotta disagree with that; futa and the like are fantasy genders used in fetish art, and not representative of real-life intersex people any more than they are representative of trans people. they are not transgender or intersex. they are their own thing and need to retain their own terminology to avoid inappropriate associations. in line with what everyone else has been saying to the OP: trans representation should be done with trans characters, and it's not fair to either side (the creator of the futa character or the people looking for trans characters) to mislabel them.
i know they're just words, and one could easily argue that these fictional genders fit the terms on some technical level, but the way words are used and understood carries a lot of weight. even within fiction, i have to avoid using certain terms due to the associations they carry. it's that much more important to be cautious when it involves something which affects real people.
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Re: We should tag 'futa' and 'herm' as Transgender instead!

Postby KnightleyPaine » Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:58 pm

Pretty sure that's not how trans people work. Everyone's already said it.

Some trans may be physically females with dicks
All futas are physically females with dicks
But physically speaking, no futas are trans

I guess theoretically a futa could be transgender if you like complicating things.

As for tagging, look, I think most people here would respect the trans status. But respecting it on a social level is completely separate from liking it on a kink level, or even comfort on an intimate level. They are separate factors from each other. If there were to be FtM trans, MtF trans or similar tags, I doubt people would mind their existence. Well, most people at least, I'm sure you'll manage to run into some vocal minority who are stupid about it. But like everyone has repeatedly said, hijacking an existing tag that is by definition not the same thing isn't the way to go, and while images have no 'rights', you're still overwriting the artist's intentions (which is already an issue with some tagging incidences, no need to add to that) as well as possibly infringing on other interests.

Imagine having a trans tag and people just forcibly making them into binary gender whenever they have a clear physique for one or the other against the artist's will, it would be the same issue as the current suggestion.

That being said, I've already mentioned a separate trans tag wouldn't be an issue, as long as the represented characters or artists are alright with this. Up to now, I've actually never seen it happen. On the contrary, of about three trans people I know of who's representative OCs appear in art regularly, including their own art and personal commissions, the tag seems to just be whatever gender the person identifies as without any trans label. This is probably because trans people often may prefer to be the other gender (because you know, that's... kind of their entire thing) over having a reminder looming over them that designates them as something slightly different, it might always be true and part of them IRL, but there's nothing wrong with preferring something more pure in fantasy, and I could imagine even there such a tag may infringe upon actual trans people if thrust upon them without consent.
Last edited by KnightleyPaine on Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: We should tag 'futa' and 'herm' as Transgender instead!

Postby Merodi » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:09 pm

So I'm trans too, but I'm against this.
Transgender =/= herm/futa

Futanari is just a fetish. A cis woman who just happens to also have a dick, be it there from birth or through magical means. Herms, kinda related, are just full hermaphrodites, possessing both male and female reproductive organs in a fully formed, fully functional way unlike real intersex people.
Trans people aren't futas or herms, and if you want to use those terms for yourself, you're free to do so, but don't lump us all together.

Speaking of that, it also ignored male identified herms that also exists (if much rarer) and just happen to have a womb/womb analogue/female reproductive organs in addition to their penis too.

Just use MTF/FTM/Trans as tags.
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Re: We should tag 'futa' and 'herm' as Transgender instead!

Postby soline » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:11 pm

No. The terms are entirely distinct and refer to different things. It would be like going "Why don't we just call straight and gay people bisexual!"

Trans - Entity who was one thing, and is now/is becoming a different thing. At heart it is simply 'transition'. Typically transgender but there's plenty of transformation art out there, and a character in the process of turning from a human to a gator or something is also 'trans'.

Herm - Entity that is, was and will continue to be hermaphroditic, possessing both male and female genitalia

Futa (and I suppose Shemale/dickgirls/whatever else in the fetish context?) - Entity that is female, with everything female excluding the genitals, which are exlusively male.

Now I am 100% for more trans characters, personally I love em for various reasons and to hell with equal representation, I just want to see more of a particular subset of character traits I like. However I am 10000% against just collapsing a bunch of 'similar' terminology into one. Maybe it's just the linguistic nazi (or Brit, that's the other word for us :p) in me, but it's exceptionally irritating to be mislead into viewing something based on false premises and misleading labels. I really really enjoy AV, but it's extremely irritating to click on something labelled 'unbirth' and discover it's actually anal-vore the artist has labelled 'unbirth into his man-pussy' or whatever, I came to this picture for people up the wazoo, not people up the backdoor!

If you're fine interpreting herm characters as trans, then go for it and just search two tags at once. I do it with 'fisting' on FA (because y'know....fisting is the gateway fetish to vore!)
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Re: We should tag 'futa' and 'herm' as Transgender instead!

Postby EnderDracolich » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:21 pm

Dankthena wrote:i know plenty of trans women on this site, including me and seeing naughties of us is veeery nice❤ help us girls out!


If the character is Trans, yes, we should tag them as trans. That's a fair and reasonable request. However, if they are naturally that way, as a result of hermaphroditism, we should tag them as herm or futa, not as trans, because it's simply not an accurate description of what we are actually describing.

Trans women, T-girls, and other such terms refer to biological males who have transitioned or are transitioning into the female gender. Hermaphrodites, on the other hand, are individuals born with extra chromosomes or mutant chromosomes, which result in a hybrid of male and female characteristics *from birth* and is a different thing from being transgender.
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Re: We should tag 'futa' and 'herm' as Transgender instead!

Postby EnderDracolich » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:31 pm

YouCanFreshMyFresh wrote:
Gelus wrote:It's a bit unfair to forcibly try and change the world-setups/lore of others and try to pigeonhole their own kinks to match your worldview. Most of the time futa and herm are entirely different genders than male or female, presented as additional types of people who just kinda happen (along with busty-boys, c-boys, male-bodytype herms, etc. and so forth), it's kind of... awful to forcibly reassign them to fit your own concepts of how things should be, I'd've expected as someone trans you would understand that a bit better, honestly.


They're drawings, my dude, there's no real person being "forcibly reassigned." Real people have feelings, drawings don't, and it's messed up to treat the two as if they both have the same type of rights.


Guess what? The artists and writers who *make* the characters are real people. That's who is being forcibly reassigned; the people whose work is being relabeled and re-branded as something different than what they intended, not the fictional characters therein.

Also, hermaphrodites do exist in real life. It's exceedingly rare, but it's nonetheless real. You should look it up. Trying to say "lets just treat all hermaphrodites in fiction as trans people instead" is dehumanizing to real hermaphrodites. It's no different from saying "lets treat all Dravidians in fiction as Africans instead." Do they look similar? Yes. Are they the same thing? No. Does it really matter in art which one an artist chooses to use for their character?

Sometimes, yes, it does. If I write a story about someone who has had mismatched sex characteristics from birth, it's going to be a different story than someone who is transitioning, because the hermaphrodite doesn't have to go through the transition process; on the other hand, they also face unique challenges that trans people don't face due to being identifiable different from birth. Many trans people can be "in the closet;" this is much harder for a hermaphrodite.

...

I get that, in a one off smut picture, it doesn't make any difference if a person is trans or a hermaphrodite. It looks the same either way, you view it, and you move on. However, if we are talking about fully developed OC's with backstories, it makes a difference.

EDIT:
To clarify, for those who wish to correct me. Hermaphrodites DO exist in humans. Intersex people aren't always "true" hermaphrodites, because they normally only have one set of gonadal tissue, but people have been born with both sets of gonadal tissue, making them actual hermaphrodites. These people are a subset of intersex people.
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Re: We should tag 'futa' and 'herm' as Transgender instead!

Postby JimmyJoeIII » Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:35 pm

No, because transgender is different from hermaphroditism. One is a psychological decision, the other is a biological condition.
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