We should tag 'futa' and 'herm' as Transgender instead!

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Re: We should tag 'futa' and 'herm' as Transgender instead!

Postby JimmyJoeIII » Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:38 pm

soline wrote:No. The terms are entirely distinct and refer to different things. It would be like going "Why don't we just call straight and gay people bisexual!"

Trans - Entity who was one thing, and is now/is becoming a different thing. At heart it is simply 'transition'. Typically transgender but there's plenty of transformation art out there, and a character in the process of turning from a human to a gator or something is also 'trans'.

Herm - Entity that is, was and will continue to be hermaphroditic, possessing both male and female genitalia

Futa (and I suppose Shemale/dickgirls/whatever else in the fetish context?) - Entity that is female, with everything female excluding the genitals, which are exlusively male.

Now I am 100% for more trans characters, personally I love em for various reasons and to hell with equal representation, I just want to see more of a particular subset of character traits I like. However I am 10000% against just collapsing a bunch of 'similar' terminology into one. Maybe it's just the linguistic nazi (or Brit, that's the other word for us :p) in me, but it's exceptionally irritating to be mislead into viewing something based on false premises and misleading labels. I really really enjoy AV, but it's extremely irritating to click on something labelled 'unbirth' and discover it's actually anal-vore the artist has labelled 'unbirth into his man-pussy' or whatever, I came to this picture for people up the wazoo, not people up the backdoor!

If you're fine interpreting herm characters as trans, then go for it and just search two tags at once. I do it with 'fisting' on FA (because y'know....fisting is the gateway fetish to vore!)

Actually, "futanari" is actually just Japanese for "hermaphrodite".
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Re: We should tag 'futa' and 'herm' as Transgender instead!

Postby NerdyNeko » Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:00 pm

I rarely throw my hat into Eka topics... but this one needs dealing with now before a precedent is set

Instead of trying to shoe horn Transgender stuff into the community by changing something thats already well established into something its clearly not, why not create more Transgender vore instead? Im kinda sure there already is a Trans tag floating around on here anyways... I think its far more beneficial for everyone that way, more vore art gets added to the community and no-one feels pushed out or re-labeled ^_^

Changing a Tag will do nothing more than piss off a lot of people and cause a rift in the community, I think its far better to create than alter~
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Re: We should tag 'futa' and 'herm' as Transgender instead!

Postby 2inchlich » Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:19 pm

I don't think trans people should be treated as sex objects the way those other two are...
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Re: We should tag 'futa' and 'herm' as Transgender instead!

Postby EnderDracolich » Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:00 pm

2inchlich wrote:I don't think trans people should be treated as sex objects the way those other two are...


Cis men and cis women are sexualized all the time on Ekas. This is a fetish community, why should we specifically exclude one group but allow all the others? Not to mention that there are some very prominent members of the community who are transgender, and who might want to make characters who reflect their own experiences. In fact, the OP herself claims to be a transwoman, and is requesting more trans content for precisely that reason.

I say let trans people judge what's over the line, in terms of respect, instead of trying to speak for them by demanding that they be left out entirely.
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Re: We should tag 'futa' and 'herm' as Transgender instead!

Postby calldahotline » Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:12 pm

I'll throw my hat on the dead horse. Futa, Herm, and Trans are not the same thing. The points have already been made, I am just adding my voice.
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Re: We should tag 'futa' and 'herm' as Transgender instead!

Postby sweetladyamy » Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:17 pm

EnderDracolich wrote:Cis men and cis women are sexualized all the time on Ekas. This is a fetish community, why should we specifically exclude one group but allow all the others? Not to mention that there are some very prominent members of the community who are transgender, and who might want to make characters who reflect their own experiences. In fact, the OP herself claims to be a transwoman, and is requesting more trans content for precisely that reason.

I say let trans people judge what's over the line, in terms of respect, instead of trying to speak for them by demanding that they be left out entirely.


Thank you.

Now, let me grant some knowledge on contextual-heavy language, like my own native tongue, where indeed, hermaphrodites, futanari, and trans are all described with the same base partial phrase, Kivuli, which means 'of sexual difference', but on its' own, provides insufficient context.

"Soeta, renyu massare kivuloserado moesoran?"
(Is it true, that you're transgender?)

"Aozare, eyu asui kivuiware imia sa."
(I myself, am of the futanari.)

"Su aen, kivulosera moterasen kivutadare, ora sa."
(No, I'm not transgender, I am a hermphrodite.)

Anyway, that's just me throwing out the contextual part. I myself, often play a transgirl character, though I have futanari characteristics and behaviors.

I'm not offended, just annoyed that this is still somehow an issue, and cannot wait for it to not be.
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Re: We should tag 'futa' and 'herm' as Transgender instead!

Postby IncubusJester » Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:01 pm

I have to concur with most here. All of the transfolk I know who are into kink material would much rather not be referred to with kink terminology. Some don't like futa/etc material, some really do like it, and some have voiced a certain amount of comfort and reassurance they've gotten from some of it, but none have said that they're comfortable being referred to with those terms.

Mashing it all together would feel like needless streamlining and generalization at the cost of nuance and respect for real people with gender dysphoria.
Last edited by IncubusJester on Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: We should tag 'futa' and 'herm' as Transgender instead!

Postby HollowSnake » Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:03 pm

I wish to also throw my hat into the ring and say: no.

Leave those tags alone. There's no point fixing what isn't broken.

Futa's are chicks with dicks and that's how they started out. Though I will acknowledge the fact the word "futanari" means hermaphrodite in Japanese, but here it's been established as just being girls only sporting a penis.

Herms are beings that have a dick and a vagina and that's how they came to be from the start.

Transgenders are people who believe they are the opposite of the gender they were born with.
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Re: We should tag 'futa' and 'herm' as Transgender instead!

Postby The_Prof » Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:19 pm

HollowSnake wrote:I wish to also throw my hat into the ring and say: no.

Leave those tags alone. There's no point fixing what isn't broken.

Futa's are chicks with dicks and that's how they started out. Though I will acknowledge the fact the word "futanari" means hermaphrodite in Japanese, but here it's been established as just being girls only sporting a penis.

Herms are beings that have a dick and a vagina and that's how they came to be from the start.

Transgenders are people who believe they are the opposite of the gender they were born with.


Pretty much this. Hermaphrodites are not transgender by definition, they cannot be between genders since they are both at the same time. And if a herm were to desire to become just one gender instead of both they would not be so much transitioning as they would be simply discarding one of the genders they possess
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Re: We should tag 'futa' and 'herm' as Transgender instead!

Postby EnderDracolich » Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:43 pm

The_Prof wrote:
HollowSnake wrote: Hermaphrodites are not transgender by definition, they cannot be between genders since they are both at the same time.


Well, most real-world hermaphrodites, and other intersex people, are assigned a gender at birth. In a true hermaphrodite, where both sets of gonadal tissue are present, they usually base the assignment on the chromosomes the person has, or on their overall appearance. So a hermaphrodite could actually experience gender dysphoria as a result of being assigned a sex at birth that they aren't comfortable with, and could be considered a trans person as a result.

So, if a hermaphrodite is born, and is named (for example) "Suzan," and given girl's clothing, feminine pronouns, and female gender expectations, they might well feel uncomfortable with their assigned gender. They might later on decide to change their name to a masculine name, like "Stuart" (for example) and to wear men's clothing and use male pronouns, and adopt a male gender identity. Such a person might even opt to have themselves surgically altered to be less feminine.

So, I wouldn't say hermaphrodites or intersex people can't be transgender.
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Re: We should tag 'futa' and 'herm' as Transgender instead!

Postby KnightleyPaine » Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:56 pm

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Re: We should tag 'futa' and 'herm' as Transgender instead!

Postby AutumnFerret » Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:20 am

honestly, as someone who genuinely loves transgender people and characters for a number of reasons, I think it would actually be better for someone to come up with a NEW gender title. now I know that seems extreme or maybe even stupid but think about it. if someone has breasts and a penis and are happy with that and are NOT planning on having full transformative surgery ever, then maybe they should have there own title. we have male, we have female, I just wish there was some third title that could be used instead of the nonspecific "transgender", or the silly futa/herm, or worse still, the rather insulting "shemale". all of which I've heard used before, not in an insulting way, but it still doesn't sound quite right to me...

I don't know... considering I myself am not transgender nor do I plan on ever becoming transgender, maybe this makes me sound rude or stuck up. idk, it's just how I would feel if I WAS transgender.
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Re: We should tag 'futa' and 'herm' as Transgender instead!

Postby jaggedjagd » Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:30 am

I see this discussion pop up every now and then, and I too think it's a terrible idea to equate fantasy terms like futa with RL terms for trans people. It's far from being the same thing. I use herm & pussyboy characters occasionally and I would never consider them to have anything to do with trans people. It'd be like tagging content with dwarfs with "Achondroplasia" (the scientific term for RL dwarfism). Seems rather insulting to say the least.

This here is the most sensible solution:
Merodi wrote:Just use MTF/FTM/Trans as tags.

If your work features actual trans people, tag them with MtF, FtM, trans or intersex or whatever you feel appropriate. Simple as that. Let herms be herms and trans be trans.
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Re: We should tag 'futa' and 'herm' as Transgender instead!

Postby Gendor » Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:32 am

Trans people are transitioning to the sex they wish to become. a Herm or a "Futa" (Fuck I hate that weeaboo term) is not really either and if we were to cater to the whims of >1% of the population then let me tell you how many people of larger groups would demand their rights as well! (I'm not going to tell you, think for yourself, it's a privilege)

If you want to force your diversity then you've come to the wrong neighbourhood, and you should probably keep at it in your own back yard if you want things to be a certain way or you will get trolled. Create and don't alter as NerdyNeko said.
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Re: We should tag 'futa' and 'herm' as Transgender instead!

Postby UnforsakenFantasy » Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:38 am

I disagree with your request in my personal opinion. Mainly because there is a science definition between hermaphrodite, being a individual with both sexual organs. Trans is just someone that wants to be something else. I do have a question though what is the difference between a 'cunt boy' and a female. Why does the male character as stated not just a female with a flat chest, it seems silly, silly being a very nice choice of words for the latter. Also futanari to me is just a hermaphrodite. At least from depictions have encountered.
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Re: We should tag 'futa' and 'herm' as Transgender instead!

Postby jaggedjagd » Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:47 am

UnforsakenFantasy wrote:I do have a question though what is the difference between a 'cunt boy' and a female. Why does the male character as stated not just a female with a flat chest, it seems silly, silly being a very nice choice of words for the latter.

Because gender makes no sense and sexuality makes even less sense. I consider my pussyboys to be boys because I find boys hotter than girls. I can't explain it, it's just how it is. And while a lot of pussyboys tend to be on the feminine side, calling masculine looking ones with beards "flat chested ladies" would seem dishonest.

In the end it's just a matter of how the creator of that character feels about their creation. Since gender is a rather arbitrary concept and physical sex does not apply to fantasy genitals, you can refer to your character with whatever gender you goshdang please.
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Re: We should tag 'futa' and 'herm' as Transgender instead!

Postby Shadowslayer » Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:53 am

OP wants to tag born-as-female-identifies-as-female characters as transgender? What the heck?

Also on the subject of tags, how come people don't properly tag other genders? I still male prey despite having blacklisted it.
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Re: We should tag 'futa' and 'herm' as Transgender instead!

Postby Neoninja » Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:06 am

No this is incredibly insulting to actual trans people to be compared to futa, they're are VERY different things.
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Re: We should tag 'futa' and 'herm' as Transgender instead!

Postby gmaster350 » Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:19 am

We tag based upon what's visible in the artwork, and we cannot see inside someone's head to know what they identify as.
Adding those tags does nothing to help people search for visual content, as people are typically searching for genitals, not for identity.
If you need to specify that a particular character identifies a certain way, the description might be a better way of doing that.
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Re: We should tag 'futa' and 'herm' as Transgender instead!

Postby sweetladyamy » Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:35 am

gmaster350 wrote:...If you need to specify that a particular character identifies a certain way, the description might be a better way of doing that.


This right here is the best solution.
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