Quality of the gallery?? (revamp)

[Meloeatta]

I'm curious to how most of the people on this site feel about the quality of the things uploaded here recently, as in the past few months or so.
Personally, I think that the site has... been decreasing in overall quality? I don't want to be rude or bring up any examples, but I have definitely seen stuff on this site while searching that are just... funny. unintentionally. just like, not good objectively
Now, I'm not trying to shove a quality system into the site or whatever
i'm not against having new artists get their footing or whatever, god knows my early stuff was Absolute Garbage, so was everyones, but--

I'd be interested in hearing what all of your thoughts are on the quality of the gallery lately, or if im just being an Elitist Dickhead Poopypants about it

i feel like maybe if the general opinion is that some inexperienced artists are coming to the site and getting galleries, we should start giving constructive criticism more towards them. Even experienced artists should get that, really.
I've felt like this and I know some other artists that get burnt out by just the lack of criticism and get in a lull where they either give up, or steadily decrease in quality
and im also not expecting Everyone To Suddenly Go Out and comment on everyones drawings, going through them with a fine tooth comb or whatever
but you catch my drift, thats a whole other topic with a whole different issue

i'll probably regret making this thread in the morning lol

[mudkip01]

Quality has taken a dip for sure for the reasons you stated but i feel like a lot of the people who made higher quality stuff have locked it behind their patreon due to how profitable it is.(not that there is anything wrong with that nobody is entitled anything)

[voreftw]

I'm not sure if its a drop in the overall quality or if you may be seeing more sub-par work due to the overall increase of artwork. Since I know there's still tons of amazing artwork being pumped out inbetween, especially if I go back and compare the quality of art found nowadays to say 5+ years ago. Honestly I just wish there was a more consistent tagging system. Thank god for those who take time to tag artwork, since as I normally can't keep up with the art gallery nowadays I sometimes fallback into searching tags.

[Apex]

I find content I enjoy on the site every day. Even if the ratio of "good" to "bad" is 20/80, I don't think I can really complain.

I have a hard time wrapping my head around topics like this because it's difficult for me to define an objectively good piece of art. If artist A has a very real looking style but artist B draws their characters gangly as hell, is artist A better than artist B? Probably not, because there's a lot of people that like how artist B draws people. The problem with objectivity is it requires rules, laws anyone can observe to determine a shared perception. Art is inherently subjective and makes this entire argument a huge, tangled mess of an issue. I'm probably thinking too much considering how some pictures amount to little more than fingerpaintings but I would be willing to bet money there are people that enjoy looking at those pictures because they're "cute" or something.

It also pays to keep in mind how focused human beings get on the bad. People can go to the same restaurant 100 times and have positive experiences. If on attempt 101 there's a single rude server or a steak that takes too long they're up in arms, never to return. I can't help but feel 90 percent of uploads here could be good and people would notice the 5 bad pictures from last month is suddenly 10 pictures this month. That's a 100 percent increase in bad!

Time moves forward. More people are born. Some of them decide to make art. Some of them aren't very good when they start. Some go on to improve, some don't. That's life. With the law of averages what it is, most people will only be okay and some will be bad. Since a lot of people view average as bad, that means "bad" will always outnumber "good."

Quality has taken a dip for sure for the reasons you stated but i feel like a lot of the people who made higher quality stuff have locked it behind their patreon due to how profitable it is.(not that there is anything wrong with that nobody is entitled anything)

This is a SLIGHTLY valuable idea. If someone locks content BEHIND a paywall it is less likely to be OUTSIDE the paywall. This is simply a FACT. And YES, people are entitled to be paid for their labor. Is it the sole or even majority reason for our proposed lack of quality? I don't think so. Besides, less talented artists also occasionally do this.

As for constructive criticism, I would love to. Unfortunately, I have absolutely no experience in drawing. All I can do is say, "Oh, I don't like how their nose works," or, "Her thighs don't look quite right." I can't help correct it which is the true essence of what I feel constructive criticism is. Without advice on improving it's just criticism and "just criticism" is dangerously close to insults.

Honestly I just wish there was a more consistent tagging system.

This, a thousand times this! When I see artists with garbage tags, especially if they tag, "I'm too lazy to do tags" (A real tag I've seen by the way!) I pretty much refuse to view their stuff. I may be petty but I'll die on this petty little hill.

[Eznam]

I feel like it's more that some people just don't know how to draw, or don't have the patience to finish a drawing but they just feel like sharing what they've made *for some reason*. Like I can tolerate mediocre, hell, I'll probably upload mediocre, but some of the art I see here could be made in 30 minutes with just Paint.

[pumpkinoverlord]

I think a big thing to remember overall is that this is a somewhat more niche community. There is a lot less content coming through on here than other sites because this particular site is mostly intended to cater to a specific interest and honestly I kind of like that there isn't "quality control" on here compared to sites like hentai foundry. I think allowing for artists even if they're less experienced in technical skill can be very encouraging and smaller communities like this is a great chance for people to find their place and flourish. What anyone may not enjoy or find bad may actually be the current highlight of that person's career and they may find they're making progress from where they were.

Remember you're only seeing what they posted. You don't know the quality of their work from when they first started drawing.

[BizzareBlue]

I think part of the reason the quality might seem to be decreasing is that good art (by whatever metric you use to quantify that) is more memorable than the less good pieces. As such, the present is full of a pretty much random sample of art of differing quality, while anything you see from ten years ago tends to be the most memorable and lasting pieces. If anything, I'd say that, to me, the quality seems to be slowly increasing. The long term artists on this site are constantly improving and many of the new arrivals are incredibly talented, particularly given that their work is usually their first time drawing/writing vore.

I'd also avoid giving too much constructive criticism to the new artists unless they specifically indicate that they are looking for it. Some people thrive on criticism but others can find even gently worded critic discouraging, particularly if they are already feeling self conscious about their work. Until I'm sure which group they are in, I find it best to stick with encouragement. There's plenty of free tutorials available for new artists if they want and I worry that I might discourage someone if I start giving them unsolicited advice about their work.

[Dekkard2]

I haven't looked at recent submissions lately. I just look at whatever's new from my watch list so I can't say much about newest submissions to the site. I don't think there should be quality control on this site either since it can quickly devolve into elitist only the best of the best are allowed here type of thing. I'm not perfect at art either but I try to improve as best I can (and I'm leagues above what I used to be). I agree it's frustrating to see art from someone who doesn't try to improve but forcing on them will cause them to get worse or give up entirely.

[pendingdelet205h2n9]

I think there's just as much good art being posted as ever, if not more, but it does feel like it's becoming increasingly harder to find under so much 'amateur' art.

But I don't think anything should be done to discourage the amateurs in the least!

This community isn't an art community. It's first and foremost a place for people who love vore to discuss, and love it together. Many people show there love with their own creations, and I think that's wonderful regardless of the quality. The enthusiasm and love for vore and the Eka's community is what matters.

That being said, an easier way to find creators that we like and share interests with would be appreciated. I think a "recommended for you" section would be nice. A collection of art that 1) Has tags you regularly search/favorite 2) Is doing well in views/favorites and 3) You haven't viewed yet.

Many sites have a recommended section, would be nice to have one here. (Although I realize we only have the one lovely technician so it would be a lot of work)

[merlovinit]

There was a site called yaoi gallery a while back that had overly strict rules about quality. If the mods didnt think your work was good enough they'd just delete it. It was really discouraging to have my first ever submission removed with a condescending PM about how bad it was.

I fled that site along with everybody else and now it's dead. I think larger social networking sites these days use trends and automatic tagging to help promote the best submissions. Of course I'm just glad to have a site where I can post my work.

[pumpkinoverlord]

y!gallery is such a hot mess and it's so limited on what you can post
like humanoids only, basically only cis male characters, and quality control? Fuck off ya'lls site been the same since 2008.

Sites like that are not a good place for development and growth at all.

[MaxTwenty]

Two big things that stand out to me whenever this discussion comes up: Community shift and... community shift part 2.

In the before time, the long long ago, the vore community was smaller and more tightly knit. It was probably possible to know of just about every individual artist who posted anything publicly, and even likely run across them in comment threads or forums or whatnot. Everyone could have their own brand in a system like that. Community gets bigger (way way way bigger), interests diverge, more art gets submitted, and now you're looking at a wall of submissions from... some people. Who're they? Haven't seen this before and don't feel super compelled to click. Nevermind that we're spoiled for choice now and probably have higher standards for what we react to favorably. Which is another point altogether; there's just more (way way way more) vore art now than in the past 5, 10 years, good and bad, so we kind of notice both more than 'hey look, vore'.

Anyway, the part 2 to that is smaller community, everyone ends up talking to each other as people, more tightly knit, yada yada. Submitting to a bigger community you have a lot more yelling into the void. Like, here's my art, someone, anyone notice. It isn't one of 20 submissions to browse that day anymore, but rather probably filtered out entirely by most users. People who are watching that artist or relevant tags see it, but then that's a trap; new artists (any, but it's a big problem for new) get locked into drawing the same stuff over and over because that's what gets feedback and engagement. And that feedback is usually along the lines of vague praise or favorites, which doesn't really convey anything useful or actionable like, say, "You don't seem confident with legs, your last three drawings all have them in the same pose. Here's a video that helped me visualize legs a lot better, just try and (helpful tip I can't think of now)". Kind of a doom spiral.

I mean, personally I'm happy to see people enjoying drawing and ain't nobody owes anyone anything in terms of art. But that part 2 really does bug me for having been stuck in it so long and seeing others similarly obliviously stuck. There's gotta be a happy medium between that state and 4chan's 'blunt' critiques.

[2inchlich]

My higher quality art is exclusively commissions, and generally the people who pay my prices for it want to keep it private for one reason or another so I personally don't post it here and just post my messy sketches. I don't have the time irl to draw hq pieces unless I get paid to do it /shrug\

I'm sure other artists do similar things. If you can make money doing something you shouldn't feel obligated to put it out for free.

[Eznam]

My higher quality art is exclusively commissions, and generally the people who pay my prices for it want to keep it private for one reason or another so I personally don't post it here and just post my messy sketches. I don't have the time irl to draw hq pieces unless I get paid to do it /shrug\

I'm sure other artists do similar things. If you can make money doing something you shouldn't feel obligated to put it out for free.

Yeah, no, we're talking about people who draw bellies with the circle shape tool in paint.

[Meloeatta]

y'all have got some good points, and yeah it is true that negative experiences sticking out more along with closer knit communities being afraid to tell each other shit gets them in a lull
but at the same time i feel like there are definitely some people that literally take 10 minutes to draw something, scan it, upload it, and not improve in the months/years they've been here because they get the same "hey nice job" or "cute belly :3" comments

and my attitude on this really sucks because, when i think about it i do want to see these people improve
but when i see it i just instantly fuck off or delete it from my inbox
and im sure tons of people do that as well so yikes

i might just need to look for more artists and watch them, i barely watch anyone and watch a couple of tags (which in itself has its own issues) and i get everything else by searching the tags or just looking through the latest in the gallery
and i end up really disappointed
those times i end up checking my notifs and see "holy shit eerieviolet uploaded" or "ohmy fucking god someone posted meloetta that doesnt suck and i didnt have to beg them for it" makes me feel really happy and i just wish i could have that feeling with more artists here that post regularly
but that itself also has its own problems because what i do now is basically just shut out everything else and then that goes back into the problem of other people not improving and h

one of the raddest guys here imo is hibbyjibby, because, no matter your opinion on his writing, hes a cool guy
when i first started uploading here, some of my first submissions had him like
pointing out shit i'd never even THINK about that i could improve on! and shit that i still havent improved on! i really appreciate the help he gave me and i wish more people could have help like that too from this place, but uhh, not to the point where they basically just become a carbon copy of whoevers helping them



off topic but

My higher quality art is exclusively commissions, and generally the people who pay my prices for it want to keep it private for one reason or another so I personally don't post it here and just post my messy sketches. I don't have the time irl to draw hq pieces unless I get paid to do it /shrug\

I'm sure other artists do similar things. If you can make money doing something you shouldn't feel obligated to put it out for free.

i reaaaaally disagree with that
maybe its just because most of the things i do arent comms but i feel like you should draw stuff and upload it because you enjoy doing it and not exclusively because it gets you paid?
i get that if you dont have the time to do it because of irl stuff, but "if you can make money doing something you shouldn't feel obligated to put it out for free" really gripes me
if i get an idea i really like and want to draw it, i'll put my best foot forward for it (unless i just give up lol). i wouldnt hold off or hinder myself or cut off my own ideas because "oh, someone else might like this idea and they can pay me for it instead, i'll just not do it"
plus having higher quality stuff on your profile leaves a better impression of you as an artist, so people will actually know what they're getting into and you'll probably get more comms like that but
what do i know
also yeah, what eznam said too is definitely a part of it

[Eznam]

I mean I would help you with adding to your watchlist but you seem to be into that chubby furry shit and I'm into skinny human shit so I don't think it would work

[MeTheMe]

I can sort of see where you're coming from, but I hadn't really noticed any sort of drop in quality myself, I DID notice the upsurge of artists over years, of all sorts of quality, but not any kind of drop in over all quality. I think I agree with the people who say it's a necessary evil, as you don't want to discourage amateur artists, though I might be biased being one.

I will say I mostly use Watches and check tags though, the fire hose of content from the Latest tab can be a lot to sort through, but I'm also okay with that.

[jaggedjagd]

.......................................

[Tassie]

I feel like too many of the better writers and artists are locking their work behind paywalls now.

[merlovinit]

Drawing for fun is pretty much the only way I can get motivated to finish something. I work a decent paying full time job which makes it pretty much pointless to do any paid drawing work. I've had a couple people offer to commission me but if I actually wanted it to be worth my time then I would have to charge over a hundred dollars for a single image. I'm not even gonna ask somebody to pay that much. That's why I just do requests instead, but I'm really far behind on those anyways and had to close my requests. =P

As for the notorious circle tool in paint bellies... The only real feedback you can give to those people is that they need to learn actual drawing fundamentals. However those types of people tend to get more comments overall than a lot of more serious artists because they have friends and engage the community more.