I'm probably gonna catch some serious flak for this, but...

[NyaatoShiroi]

This is absolutely ridiculous. Just because someone likes fatal vore with underaged prey doesn't mean they're pedophiles. That's so stupid. I've written plenty of stories with underaged prey, both fatal and non-fatal. Does that make me a child molester? I honestly can't stand these kinds of threads. People like what they like, why is it always some sort of thought crime if they do things differently?

This is ^
My words: Its will remain and will be only in fantasy, while in RL i am dont stand any illegal issues related to them.

[Indighost]

(Should probably mention: not trying to start a flame war, just voicing my own opinion/asking for other's opinions)
Could someone kindly remind me WHAT exactly is so """""attractive""""" or """""sexy""""" about vore involving digestion AND children as prey?

Fetishes are gained during childhood development, and tons and tons of Fairy Tales and other childrens' media has children as prey. It's just how the kinks are built in, and once built in, they cannot be changed or "prayed away".

[Brainfood]

(Should probably mention: not trying to start a flame war, just voicing my own opinion/asking for other's opinions)
Could someone kindly remind me WHAT exactly is so """""attractive""""" or """""sexy""""" about vore involving digestion AND children as prey?

Fetishes are gained during childhood development, and tons and tons of Fairy Tales and other childrens' media has children as prey. It's just how the kinks are built in, and once built in, they cannot be changed or "prayed away".

So, anybody who saw my writing when I first joined the site will know I don't exactly have a high horse to sit on in this kind of discussion, but I've thought long and hard about this since then. To be frank, I don't believe for a second that kinks are immutable or unchangeable, at least not entirely. I know this because I got deep into this fetish long before I actually started having sex with people in real life, and until that point I had basically taken for granted that I enjoyed my fictional fantasies well beyond anything that vanilla sexual situations could match; what I found is that in order to engage with people who weren't also into the kind of degenerate (a term I use affectionately) content I was making and consuming, I had to adjust my tastes, and I had some success with that. I retain the capacity to enjoy all the same things I used to enjoy, but as I've gone long stretches without engaging with those fantasies, their appeal has weakened, and if you have a mind to leave fantasies involving children behind you, it's totally possible to find other stuff to be into. Again, I am not here to judge people, and that's not something it's really my place to do anyhow, but I get annoyed seeing people treat this as if they have no choice in the matter. However it is they end up in our heads, there is a reason why they stay there, and that is worth interrogating.

More importantly, I don't believe it's productive to act as though it is hard to understand the appeal of fantasies that are sadistic or cruel. A power trip is a physical sensation, one that I've experienced firsthand, and it's absolutely intoxicating be cruel to someone when you know there's nothing stopping you (in my case, it was because I was fucking someone who was more masochistic than I was sadistic, meaning I could essentially do whatever I wanted and it was within her limits). Not everybody understands what it's like to feel that in an erotic context, but IMO anybody who's ever liked the idea of getting revenge on someone in a physical way knows what the appeal of having power over someone is.

There's another side to it, though, and I'm not as confident that my reasoning applies to people other than myself here, and that's why people enjoy the idea of being in the position of a child in the scenario described. I find that my interest in masochism or degradation in erotic fantasies is generally rooted in having been mistreated in the past, including early life. There are multiple aspects to this, but reimagining mistreatment in as something that is (1) enjoyable to the mistreated or (2) necessary for the abusing party to do or (3) useful or pleasurable for the abusing party, or something that otherwise attaches a meaning to cruelty that is often inflicted without real purpose can provide someone a sense of closure. My use of commas here is probably a nightmare but that should be comprehensible. As for why it manifests as vore specifically, I don't exactly know, but I suspect this can apply to fetishes beyond this one.

I think someone said something along these lines toward the beginning of the thread, but particularly when it comes to really kinky material, people often have unspoken emotional reasons to consume it. Though, to be fair, I've encountered a few people IRL who bring unspoken emotions into BDSM situations and expect the dom to just kind of figure out what they are and how to deal with them, lmao. Slightly related: being touch starved for a decade or two really gives you an appreciation for how emotionally significant it can be to simply have someone allow you to touch them freely.

If any of this sounds like I'm digging too deep, it's because part of my childhood mistreatment was by a psychiatrist in the family who used clinical tactics to control kids, so I've been navel-gazing since I was like six or so.

[ThisGuy127]

I want to preface the point I try to bring here that I'm not necessarily coming to the defense of underage content, since I personally don't partake in it, and have well and diligently used my blacklist feature on E621, here, and wherever applies to avoid it as I can. It's never perfect, and there's a lot of underage stuff that has seeped through the cracks here due to being tagged incorrectly or makes the famous sailor moon "This exact copy of the character's features happens to be over 18 because I drew it." argument, but still, I do actively avoid underage content personally.

However, it doesn't bother me that the content exists in a fictional implication, and I'd like to help echo that point: Fictional. Everything within the realms of a vary many fetishes in the world are within the realms of fiction. That's all I'm going to repeat, it's been beaten to a pulp, and I want to add in another point that I don't often see brought up in this.

Underage characters in art and between roleplaying characters are not truly underage. As one could say that no-one here is truly a furry, and no one here has truly participated in vore to any degree as implied here, even before fatal matters. With the uncommon matter of an underage person with a vore fetish becoming a rarer then underage character in the community, everyone here is of age, and probably not in prison for related crimes. An acquaintance through an ex of mine many years back however, they're in prison for a thankfully failed rape of a younger girl related to them. The point there is that that really happened with a real child and a real 18 year old kid with a troubling illness in their moral mind.

This fantasy many people here participate in is that fantasy, and the point I make with bringing up that these characters are not truly underage, is that beyond already being one's figment of their imagination who happens to be underage by design, it still comes from and reflects into an of age individual. So for those creating content or RPing underage material, if the underage character themselves was not made from an active participant in the content, then it probably came from some show or other media, in fiction. If content was created of a real life child, well then that's actually bridging into dangerous material, but that's it's own red flag beyond this.

It's not my place to decide where the bounds of one's imagination and fictional desires should have the line drawn, but I am able to steer myself away from it. Sure, I'm a father, and underage content makes me squeamish. I'm sure this entire site's existence has created more than it's fair share of uncomfortable feelings from others who'd think vore is the line crossed too far. As I see it before typing this, and as I get back to watching YouTube after it: what happens in fiction stays in fiction.

Edit: Oh yeah fuck me this is Necro'd, I even checked the first post, didn't see the 2018. Oh well.

[blessedwasthechild]

Wow this is some necroposting going on. I've already replied to this, but, I just wanna add just a little bit more.

WARNING TO ANYONE WITH TRIGGERS cuz I'm gonna be using those triggering mentions so put your big people skin on.

Spoiler: show

We can chase our tails about the slippery slope argument all day, but, one very real, genuine criticism against underage-depiction content is that it can be *very careless*, and while any kind of porn can (can! not will, but *can isn't good enough*) mess with a developing mind in unpleasant ways, I can't see how cub-loli won't make it worse. Think of the women who give us their experiences with sexual harassment as early as 14, or even younger, saying their dual-pigtails are "handle bars" or commenting on their growing breasts.

These are the people we should be worried about when we think of cub/loli *normalizing* a terrible behavior.

But like I said in the first post, we COMPLETELY ignore how there are a lot of people with rape fantasies, (such as myself) and wanna be the victim to re-contextualize bad experiences. To not be a hypocrite, you have to tell a woman who writes about herself being raped that she's normalizing and contributing to the problem, despite the fact that she and her audience are seeking empowerment and ownership of their own thoughts and desires. Its powerful *because* it is in our minds--the fetish is a part of our new order, not the chaos of the past, not the chaos of the real world, where real people hurt us.

So is cub/loli a mental virus the way racism is (and racism is a mental virus, it normalizes itself and spreads, it makes copies of itself quite readily)? I don't think so, cuz if you aren't into it you just aren't into it. No, the problem with this stuff is laziness and taking it for granted that everyone else who has the fetish is of sound mind. But like how I compared it to rape-fantasies, there are a lot of people, victims, and even women-victims, who write rape-fantasies for catharsis, to *own our own minds*. Rape-fantasies have their place in helping people heal from actual rape, and those content creators self regulate, and tagging and trigger warnings do help to make sure this content acts as intended--delivering catharsis, not instigating or normalizing something dangerous.

But you have to *KNOW* that going in. That's the trick. That's why I post that kind of stuff here--Eka's does NOT allow minors here--any minors that DO use this site have to lie about who they are, and while I can comiserate with their need to explore and grow their sexual identity, they must not do so among adults, not just for their safety, but because they have to get to where we are the hard way, the right way--you have to be an adult. In either case, they can't GET here by accident--it requires *effort and finesse*.

Cub/loli shouldn't ever find its way to anyone who does not want to see it, and no one should want to see it unless they can already act on good faith, and show that good faith through their actions and self-regulation, that this shit is fake and its going to *stay fake*.

If you will permit me to liken rape-fantasies to alcohol and cigarette sales, then let's compare cub/loli to marijuana (only without as compelling medical usefulness). Cub/loli needs a warning label, and we should encourage each other to have the presence of mind to know how this content can affect other people--not just children, but like mothers, and just as bad, people who were *almost* mothers, or are no longer. There are women with underage fantasies, like myself, and I want a safe place for us, but that safe place can't exist in good faith unless we take these people's opinions into consideration.

A lot of my fellow women will say it should be banned, and I understand that... I don't agree with them, but they're onto something, and I'm interested in how we can continue to improve what Eka's Portal already does to keep underage content under lock and key (but not hidden from the scrutiny of others, anyone can look inside if they want, they just have to prove that she should be allowed to).

What I'm doing is tagging, making sure the most triggering content is on my title cards, and I'm putting a blessing into my stories these days. "May It Stay In Fiction."

We can make this content a lot less reprehensible by simply not taking shit for granted, and being upfront and honest about the fact the fetish is problematic--but that doesn't mean you need to ban the shit. It just means its full of *problems*, and problems... can be solved.

TL;DR
Underage content is problematic but not evil and needs banning. It needs scrutiny and a closed door to be on, and one that isn't secretive either. We should self regulate it and try to not talk about underage content in a lazy, thoughtless manner that makes the world feel unsafe for parents, cuz I know we have parents here too. We should admit the fetish is problematic, and then make sure it is properly tagged the way other violent fetishes are, like gore and up. We want it to stay in fiction and for child abuse in the world to end, and we can show we act in good faith that we want it to stay in fiction.

You can't say the Jewish lady who used to fantasize about being experimented on nazi's wanted to normalize nazi's, though it was a private fantasy. Gosh maybe I should double post if I find the article, I lost it.

[ThisGuy127]

Wow this is some necroposting going on. I've already replied to this, but, I just wanna add just a little bit more.

Spoiler: show

WARNING TO ANYONE WITH TRIGGERS cuz I'm gonna be using those triggering mentions so put your big people skin on.

We can chase our tails about the slippery slope argument all day, but, one very real, genuine criticism against underage-depiction content is that it can be *very careless*, and while any kind of porn can (can! not will, but *can isn't good enough*) mess with a developing mind in unpleasant ways, I can't see how cub-loli won't make it worse. Think of the women who give us their experiences with sexual harassment as early as 14, or even younger, saying their dual-pigtails are "handle bars" or commenting on their growing breasts.

These are the people we should be worried about when we think of cub/loli *normalizing* a terrible behavior.

But like I said in the first post, we COMPLETELY ignore how there are a lot of people with rape fantasies, (such as myself) and wanna be the victim to re-contextualize bad experiences. To not be a hypocrite, you have to tell a woman who writes about herself being raped that she's normalizing and contributing to the problem, despite the fact that she and her audience are seeking empowerment and ownership of their own thoughts and desires. Its powerful *because* it is in our minds--the fetish is a part of our new order, not the chaos of the past, not the chaos of the real world, where real people hurt us.

So is cub/loli a mental virus the way racism is (and racism is a mental virus, it normalizes itself and spreads, it makes copies of itself quite readily)? I don't think so, cuz if you aren't into it you just aren't into it. No, the problem with this stuff is laziness and taking it for granted that everyone else who has the fetish is of sound mind. But like how I compared it to rape-fantasies, there are a lot of people, victims, and even women-victims, who write rape-fantasies for catharsis, to *own our own minds*. Rape-fantasies have their place in helping people heal from actual rape, and those content creators self regulate, and tagging and trigger warnings do help to make sure this content acts as intended--delivering catharsis, not instigating or normalizing something dangerous.

But you have to *KNOW* that going in. That's the trick. That's why I post that kind of stuff here--Eka's does NOT allow minors here--any minors that DO use this site have to lie about who they are, and while I can comiserate with their need to explore and grow their sexual identity, they must not do so among adults, not just for their safety, but because they have to get to where we are the hard way, the right way--you have to be an adult. In either case, they can't GET here by accident--it requires *effort and finesse*.

Cub/loli shouldn't ever find its way to anyone who does not want to see it, and no one should want to see it unless they can already act on good faith, and show that good faith through their actions and self-regulation, that this shit is fake and its going to *stay fake*.

If you will permit me to liken rape-fantasies to alcohol and cigarette sales, then let's compare cub/loli to marijuana (only without as compelling medical usefulness). Cub/loli needs a warning label, and we should encourage each other to have the presence of mind to know how this content can affect other people--not just children, but like mothers, and just as bad, people who were *almost* mothers, or are no longer. There are women with underage fantasies, like myself, and I want a safe place for us, but that safe place can't exist in good faith unless we take these people's opinions into consideration.

A lot of my fellow women will say it should be banned, and I understand that... I don't agree with them, but they're onto something, and I'm interested in how we can continue to improve what Eka's Portal already does to keep underage content under lock and key (but not hidden from the scrutiny of others, anyone can look inside if they want, they just have to prove that she should be allowed to).

What I'm doing is tagging, making sure the most triggering content is on my title cards, and I'm putting a blessing into my stories these days. "May It Stay In Fiction."

We can make this content a lot less reprehensible by simply not taking shit for granted, and being upfront and honest about the fact the fetish is problematic--but that doesn't mean you need to ban the shit. It just means its full of *problems*, and problems... can be solved.

This right there is what I'd call a responsible case of knowing the risks of fetish media you participate in, and acknowledging why you should fucking tag things right.

[Brainfood]

As I see it before typing this, and as I get back to watching YouTube after it: what happens in fiction stays in fiction.

This is demonstrably false. The example I'm going to give is fairly extreme with regards to the scale we're actually talking about, but media and the attitudes of people who consume it are not simply detached from physical reality. Some shark species have been driven to the brink of extinction by human hunts, hunts that did not happen on nearly the scale they do now before the release of the movie Jaws, which almost singlehandedly created the widespread fear of sharks that a lot of people have to this day. Beyond that, attitudes about minorities and marginalized people are affected in fairly direct ways by the way those people are portrayed in popular media.

This is not exactly popular media, and to be frank I believe massively popular porn sites that have a focus on "teen" content do a fuckload more in the way of encouraging or normalizing the idea of sexually assaulting underage girls. Beyond that, Pornhub has at times hosted videos of actual rapes, sometimes of young teenagers or even children, and profited off of them for months or years before taking them down. In the grand scheme of things, I don't really believe fictional content here is a terrible evil worth crusading against. But I also don't believe it's totally meaningless, or that consuming or producing that kind of content on a regular basis for years doesn't have any effect on the people who engage with it, or at the least reflect something about them.

At one point since the pandemic started, I tried to write a vore story that both appealed to me and didn't involve fatality, and after years of almost exclusively writing and consuming what is essentially a niche form of snuff porn, I found it a lot more difficult than I liked. I've hardly lost the capacity to enjoy fatal vore content, but writing that story (not posted here) brought me a new appreciation for how extreme my tastes had actually gotten. Some people here argue that by the time you're talking about fatality, looking twice at kiddie stuff doesn't make sense, but why do we treat fatality so casually in the first place? Fiction makes it very easy to get into it, but that doesn't explain where the appeal people find in it actually comes from. I first started writing after I had an episode where I was both actively suicidal and extremely sexually frustrated, both because of an anti-depressant's side effects; maybe not everyone who's into fatality has spent time wishing they were dead, but I can't help but see that connection in myself.

I hope it doesn't seem like I'm trying to grind an axe here. This has just been on my mind because I just watched someone who made and sold what was essentially cartoon child porn get driven off the platform they sold it on, and subsequently off of twitter. I've made stuff of a similar caliber in the past, and I've been searching for a middle ground between feeling like I've got a permanent stain on my soul and feeling like it's perfectly fine and there's no reason not to do it again, which is hard, because it seems like most people aren't neutral about the idea of eroticizing children, fictional or otherwise.

[blessedwasthechild]

As I see it before typing this, and as I get back to watching YouTube after it: what happens in fiction stays in fiction.

This is demonstrably false. The example I'm going to give is fairly extreme with regards to the scale we're actually talking about, but media and the attitudes of people who consume it are not simply detached from physical reality. Some shark species have been driven to the brink of extinction by human hunts, hunts that did not happen on nearly the scale they do now before the release of the movie Jaws, which almost singlehandedly created the widespread fear of sharks that a lot of people have to this day. Beyond that, attitudes about minorities and marginalized people are affected in fairly direct ways by the way those people are portrayed in popular media.

This is not exactly popular media, and to be frank I believe massively popular porn sites that have a focus on "teen" content do a fuckload more in the way of encouraging or normalizing the idea of sexually assaulting underage girls. Beyond that, Pornhub has at times hosted videos of actual rapes, sometimes of young teenagers or even children, and profited off of them for months or years before taking them down. In the grand scheme of things, I don't really believe fictional content here is a terrible evil worth crusading against. But I also don't believe it's totally meaningless, or that consuming or producing that kind of content on a regular basis for years doesn't have any effect on the people who engage with it, or at the least reflect something about them.

At one point since the pandemic started, I tried to write a vore story that both appealed to me and didn't involve fatality, and after years of almost exclusively writing and consuming what is essentially a niche form of snuff porn, I found it a lot more difficult than I liked. I've hardly lost the capacity to enjoy fatal vore content, but writing that story (not posted here) brought me a new appreciation for how extreme my tastes had actually gotten. Some people here argue that by the time you're talking about fatality, looking twice at kiddie stuff doesn't make sense, but why do we treat fatality so casually in the first place? Fiction makes it very easy to get into it, but that doesn't explain where the appeal people find in it actually comes from. I first started writing after I had an episode where I was both actively suicidal and extremely sexually frustrated, both because of an anti-depressant's side effects; maybe not everyone who's into fatality has spent time wishing they were dead, but I can't help but see that connection in myself.

I hope it doesn't seem like I'm trying to grind an axe here. This has just been on my mind because I just watched someone who made and sold what was essentially cartoon child porn get driven off the platform they sold it on, and subsequently off of twitter. I've made stuff of a similar caliber in the past, and I've been searching for a middle ground between feeling like I've got a permanent stain on my soul and feeling like it's perfectly fine and there's no reason not to do it again, which is hard, because it seems like most people aren't neutral about the idea of eroticizing children, fictional or otherwise.

These are all fantastic points... You know, while I don't want this stuff coming near kids, I am strongly for sexual education for teens, especially the dangers. It needs to teach a healthy attitude about sex, no scare mongering, but completely covers every single danger about sex, including the emotional harm it brings. I still have bad feelings about my first sexual partner that I consented to... cuz I probably wasn't really ready to consent, so I have bad feelings about what should have been a good experience. You can't have that if you're underage, others argue against me about it, including some people who hate cub...! But I do feel like being a teen is just too young. All that needs to be taught!

But my fucking god they should TEACH HOW TO THINK ABOUT PORN. That its like an arms race in the fakest shit ever!! They should teach children about things like abuses in the porn industry and porn addiction, but to not be ashamed of it or be ashamed of masturbation, but also to be very suspicious of it and scrutinize it, the same way that my teachers told me to scrutinize propaganda films in politics class, or when reading propaganda from wartimes. It's like what Carl Jung said about keeping a vigilant mind.

[Brainfood]

Spoiler: show

As I see it before typing this, and as I get back to watching YouTube after it: what happens in fiction stays in fiction.

This is demonstrably false. The example I'm going to give is fairly extreme with regards to the scale we're actually talking about, but media and the attitudes of people who consume it are not simply detached from physical reality. Some shark species have been driven to the brink of extinction by human hunts, hunts that did not happen on nearly the scale they do now before the release of the movie Jaws, which almost singlehandedly created the widespread fear of sharks that a lot of people have to this day. Beyond that, attitudes about minorities and marginalized people are affected in fairly direct ways by the way those people are portrayed in popular media.

This is not exactly popular media, and to be frank I believe massively popular porn sites that have a focus on "teen" content do a fuckload more in the way of encouraging or normalizing the idea of sexually assaulting underage girls. Beyond that, Pornhub has at times hosted videos of actual rapes, sometimes of young teenagers or even children, and profited off of them for months or years before taking them down. In the grand scheme of things, I don't really believe fictional content here is a terrible evil worth crusading against. But I also don't believe it's totally meaningless, or that consuming or producing that kind of content on a regular basis for years doesn't have any effect on the people who engage with it, or at the least reflect something about them.

At one point since the pandemic started, I tried to write a vore story that both appealed to me and didn't involve fatality, and after years of almost exclusively writing and consuming what is essentially a niche form of snuff porn, I found it a lot more difficult than I liked. I've hardly lost the capacity to enjoy fatal vore content, but writing that story (not posted here) brought me a new appreciation for how extreme my tastes had actually gotten. Some people here argue that by the time you're talking about fatality, looking twice at kiddie stuff doesn't make sense, but why do we treat fatality so casually in the first place? Fiction makes it very easy to get into it, but that doesn't explain where the appeal people find in it actually comes from. I first started writing after I had an episode where I was both actively suicidal and extremely sexually frustrated, both because of an anti-depressant's side effects; maybe not everyone who's into fatality has spent time wishing they were dead, but I can't help but see that connection in myself.

I hope it doesn't seem like I'm trying to grind an axe here. This has just been on my mind because I just watched someone who made and sold what was essentially cartoon child porn get driven off the platform they sold it on, and subsequently off of twitter. I've made stuff of a similar caliber in the past, and I've been searching for a middle ground between feeling like I've got a permanent stain on my soul and feeling like it's perfectly fine and there's no reason not to do it again, which is hard, because it seems like most people aren't neutral about the idea of eroticizing children, fictional or otherwise.

These are all fantastic points... You know, while I don't want this stuff coming near kids, I am strongly for sexual education for teens, especially the dangers. It needs to teach a healthy attitude about sex, no scare mongering, but completely covers every single danger about sex, including the emotional harm it brings. I still have bad feelings about my first sexual partner that I consented to... cuz I probably wasn't really ready to consent, so I have bad feelings about what should have been a good experience. You can't have that if you're underage, others argue against me about it, including some people who hate cub...! But I do feel like being a teen is just too young. All that needs to be taught!

But my fucking god they should TEACH HOW TO THINK ABOUT PORN. That its like an arms race in the fakest shit ever!! They should teach children about things like abuses in the porn industry and porn addiction, but to not be ashamed of it or be ashamed of masturbation, but also to be very suspicious of it and scrutinize it, the same way that my teachers told me to scrutinize propaganda films in politics class, or when reading propaganda from wartimes. It's like what Carl Jung said about keeping a vigilant mind.

Oh, man. Yeah, that's exactly what all my sex ed classes were missing. My church youth group was taught about the anatomy and biology of it and also some basic stuff about boundaries, all by a licensed physician, but not once did any adults in my life ever talk about porn or like what it represents to people. The problem is that teaching people everything they need to know about approaching sex and erotica with a healthy attitude would require, on top of being willing to treat teenagers as competent enough to understand it, that the people who teach it understand how badly kids get fucked up about all this by the time they're teenagers in America. Parents in this fucking country treat their kids like future babymakers before they're out of the goddamned womb (see: gender reveal parties), and boys get fucked up about whether or not they're even supposed to touch each other by the time they're teenagers.

[ThisGuy127]

As I see it before typing this, and as I get back to watching YouTube after it: what happens in fiction stays in fiction.

This is demonstrably false. The example I'm going to give is fairly extreme with regards to the scale we're actually talking about, but media and the attitudes of people who consume it are not simply detached from physical reality. Some shark species have been driven to the brink of extinction by human hunts, hunts that did not happen on nearly the scale they do now before the release of the movie Jaws, which almost singlehandedly created the widespread fear of sharks that a lot of people have to this day. Beyond that, attitudes about minorities and marginalized people are affected in fairly direct ways by the way those people are portrayed in popular media.

Just want to single this out real quick, I don't disagree with this point. I want to clarify on my own quote there. I said As I see it to imply my own understanding of media like this and others is a matter of fiction, not that this quote is a universal standard. I can even argue against that by admitting to owing a lot of grab bag nightmares to being forced to watch Jaws and Jurassic park at a very young age. You can believe I was glad dinosaurs are dead, and that I respect that sharks are fucking gnarly ass predators, but are not about to go and bite through a boat. That doesn't mean I'm out to hunt sharks to extinction, nor would I condone it, or any act done to a child due to someone's ill consumption of underage vore art.

I hope it doesn't seem like I'm trying to grind an axe here. This has just been on my mind because I just watched someone who made and sold what was essentially cartoon child porn get driven off the platform they sold it on, and subsequently off of twitter. I've made stuff of a similar caliber in the past, and I've been searching for a middle ground between feeling like I've got a permanent stain on my soul and feeling like it's perfectly fine and there's no reason not to do it again, which is hard, because it seems like most people aren't neutral about the idea of eroticizing children, fictional or otherwise.

I'd say that self aware guilt is hopefully you acknowledging much like what blessedwasthechild said after me. This content is not something to take for granted, and it's certainly not helping improve the general scene anymore than selling alcohol to anyone improves drunk driving accidents. Like drunk driving, it is a matter of responsibility and awareness of the risk your actions in any manner affect others, and I'd absolutely recommend to the person in your example that selling this kind of content is a great way to get what happened to them. While I am not about to talk about their character as a person with or providing for such a kink, I will say that people will certainly go after that like herds of sharks after watching Jaws, people are fucking stupid mathematically and are going to overreact even if you're being... responsible about selling it? That's a bit of a gray area itself, but no doubt, people will act.

But my fucking god they should TEACH HOW TO THINK ABOUT PORN. That its like an arms race in the fakest shit ever!! They should teach children about things like abuses in the porn industry and porn addiction, but to not be ashamed of it or be ashamed of masturbation, but also to be very suspicious of it and scrutinize it, the same way that my teachers told me to scrutinize propaganda films in politics class, or when reading propaganda from wartimes. It's like what Carl Jung said about keeping a vigilant mind.

As a father to a teen and now adult myself, and as a son to a once Vegas strip stripper, I agree and have lead with this idea. Given family and friendly relationships being a bit open and relaxed verbally, I do agree with teaching kids through age on what is out there in the world, and how I would hope they will treat it healthily. That included self control first and foremost, and why it fucking matters what you do in the world with everyone around you.

[blessedwasthechild]

Oh, man. Yeah, that's exactly what all my sex ed classes were missing. My church youth group was taught about the anatomy and biology of it and also some basic stuff about boundaries, all by a licensed physician, but not once did any adults in my life ever talk about porn or like what it represents to people. The problem is that teaching people everything they need to know about approaching sex and erotica with a healthy attitude would require, on top of being willing to treat teenagers as competent enough to understand it, that the people who teach it understand how badly kids get fucked up about all this by the time they're teenagers in America. Parents in this fucking country treat their kids like future babymakers before they're out of the goddamned womb (see: gender reveal parties), and boys get fucked up about whether or not they're even supposed to touch each other by the time they're teenagers.

Oh my gods yes, I think of gender reveal parties the same way! Why the FUCK is it anyone's business what junk that child's got other than the parents and a doctor for MEDICAL reasons? And sex ed just shiiiiiits on asexual teens cuz they're the most likely to have no what their deal even is due to all the erasure!!

First lesson about porn: its stupid, it can be a *fun* stupid, but its *stupid*. There xD

[Jayezox]

I agree with a lot of stuff that's been posted here, especially from blessed.

That said, I'm going to add to the "keeping fetish content in the bottle" discussion and include "SFW" vore being kept away from young children who don't understand it. Just because cartoons made for kids have that content doesn't mean it's okay. Reading a lot of posts on this site over the years, it's clear exposure triggers this fetish which can be problematic.

[Mecho]

Don't going to answear the hatred disguised as a question. But reading this is like hearing someone saying
"Excuse me kind sir. I don't want to sound rude. But you are disgusting and I hate you. Please don't feel offended. Just my opinion"

You don't get a free pass on saying offensiv things just because you warn about saying them.

[ThisGuy127]

It's clear exposure triggers this fetish which can be problematic.

Whoa, slow down. You can't just take the correlation of the majority of voraphiles developing the fetish from a very young age in cartoons and exposure as an effective cause. You're ignoring the many many many more people who lived in the same condition and were exposed to the same material without developing this kink.

Still, I'm not disagreeing with limiting exposure of most SFW vore. However, the bigger matter is education about recognizing and understanding self developments. It's truly impossible to let children or anyone really browse the internet or even watch something as harmless as cartoons without exposure to scenes that could trigger fetish development, but that's where it is a responsibility of the parent or the individual in their age to answer questions that come up.

[Artemis]

Just because cartoons made for kids have that content doesn't mean it's okay. Reading a lot of posts on this site over the years, it's clear exposure triggers this fetish which can be problematic.

I'm not sure that art and entertainment should be made with the intention of controlling children's sexuality. The implications of that are dark, and there are probably a lot of unintended consequences to that type of performative, moralizing behavior. For example, this is the exact line of thought a homophobic person uses when arguing that children's shows shouldn't be allowed to feature a gay couple. And it's also the same line of thought used to justify a burqa mandate. I would go so far as to say this comes off very hateful, in a self-hating kind of way.

It is incorrect to call Tom eating Jerry in a cartoon vore, the same way we wouldn't call an exposed ankle a foot fetish. Vore is the sexual attraction, not the act itself. And this content is clearly not designed to be porn. Surely we can be mindful of our fetishes while still acknowledging this nuance.

You are saying that killing anyone is ok as long as they are "not children"

It's true that there is a very obnoxious double standard here. I call it performative morality. People aren't mad that we fetishize killing and hurting people because violence is socially normalized. But they are mad when it features fictional depictions of children because that's socially stigmatized.

It's not my argument of course that there's nothing objectionable with fetishizing children. Just the same as there's something objectionable about glorifying violence. But rather that performative moral outrage is disingenuous at best, and belies an underlying cruelty that doesn't actually serve to protect anyone.

Also, if anyone tells me they want the government to be able to look at a drawing of a fictional character and go "...Hmmm... How old did you say they were?" "18, sir." "...Mmmh. Nah. I don't believe you." and cart you off to jail, I have to raise a brow at that. There are some really bad outcomes there.

[JediPadawanJess]

I prefer keeping my characters at 18+, even canon characters, I prefer keeping children out of fetishes even if it's non sexual.

[Skulker]

… This place has a blacklist?

[NyaatoShiroi]

… This place has a blacklist?

Forum doesn't have it, but gallery does, go on "Settings", click "Tags" and you will see watched and blacklisted tags to add your favorite/dealbreaking tags, you're welcome.