M Pred hate, from a M Pred fan's perspective

[JirachiWishes]

Hello everyone. I wouldn't be surprised if this blows up in my face, but I'm here to raise awareness.

I am a straight female with a very heavy prey leaning. I never play a pred unless it's with one of my OCs. Of course, people in my position will probably fantasize more about guys. I love my M Preds. Personally, they're the only preds that I ever do anything with. Nothing is wrong with F Preds, because I understand that many people are in different situations, leanings, etc... but here's the issue.

If you're a girl who goes into the chatrooms here, most people automatically assume you're a giantess/a pred. If you write or draw anything with a male pred, people will comment saying they'd like it way more if it was a female pred instead. Let me say this right now, these things are rather disrespectful. In my time here, I've seen M Preds get so much negativity. I've also heard people say that M Preds don't get negativity.

I have female friends who have been harassed to play a pred. I have friends who get passive aggressive comments saying that they wish their works had a female pred instead of a male. People get upset at M Pred people for defending our stances when they're put down in one form or another... but of course we're going to defend ourselves. We're not going to stay quiet about our preferences. We're not going to let people put down what we prefer. That's not what this site is for. This site is for discussing what we like to see and sharing content that involves things we like. So don't expect us to keep our heads down and stay quiet if someone claims that F Preds are superior in every way. I'm tired of the mentality that only female preds truly matter.

I know people are going to claim that this isn't really an issue. People are going to say that I'm manufacturing drama. This is a real issue, though, and I'm not going to let it be swept under the rug any longer. This is not an attack on those who prefer female preds. This is a defense for male preds, and a signal boost that this is an issue that has gone ignored for the most part.

If you have experiences like mine or additions to the topic, discuss them here. The more people who share their experiences, the more people will realize that this is an issue. Please! Keep things civil! No preference bashing or finger-pointing! And thank you for reading this if you got this far.

[Eostre]

It seems that the vore community has a really big bias towards unnaturally big female preds. Now imagine what it would be like for us in the early 2000s when literally everything was either furries or giantesses. Ugh.

[MrGrimlock]

Agreed. People can afford to step off and acknowledge that male preds have just as much of a right to be here as female, and this comes from a guy who enjoys guy preds vastly.

From a roleplaying standpoint, I don't feel comfortable at all at even trying to play a female whatsoever, and I do find some of the reasons that people dislike having males involved as preds to be pretty cookie-cuttered and generic. "Duh, I'm straight", "Duh, I like getting off to girl preds", "Duh, it's sexy". I'm not here to provide someone a means of getting off, I'm here to provide a roleplay for them. Not to mention, people don't exactly seem to elaborate any further beyond their reasoning, and hence why I almost always ask for there to be balance.

Maybe I ought to explain why I don't feel comfortable playing a female, regardless of the role, just to paint people a pretty damn clear picture why?

[merlovinit]

I believe Chameleonette created a discord specifically for M/F, for many of the reasons you listed.

[MidnightRose]

I believe Chameleonette created a discord specifically for M/F, for many of the reasons you listed.

JirachiWishes is aware of that, many of us are already members of that server.

[dodoman_1er]

I believe Chameleonette created a discord specifically for M/F, for many of the reasons you listed.

JirachiWishes is aware of that, many of us are already members of that server.

Indeed, the issue ought to be brought up here in public and out of closed doors if we wish to see a change someday

[JackNoName]

Happy to see you made this thread ^^ and I hope some of the people who cause this problem will read the trouble some people might experience from this. Although I don't see a lot of real harassment here, I do see a lot of people asking for certain products to be something they are not.

Personally I've experienced this kind of behavior in other ways. It can be super frustrating to put your heart into something, then get to hear things like "I wish this was a different pred" or a completely fetish altogether, just because it didn't fit with their super specific fetish. Thing is. The product is not that. You wouldn't ask an elephant to be a mouse, or cheese to be ham? In the case of Female preds its especially silly, as most content is already catered to people with that preference.

Obviously any kink shaming of any kind is just stupid and should be reported to a the moderators, and bullying someone into playing your preferred pred is just a dick hole move, but people can also simply state their opinion on a certain work.

In the end, I don't think you should expect a creator to make something else, especially in a niche community as ours. Often people are making things in their free time, not earning a lot of cash from it, so asking them to make something else is not really encouraging. Criticism is always welcome ofcourse, but asking for an entirely different genre or completely changing gender just seems stupid.

[Upita]

Edit: Requesting Post Deletion.

[Dekkard2]

"This would be better if it were ___" kinds of comments have to be the dumbest comments ever left on a work of art. It's like, are you the artist? Did you commission this artist to draw YOUR kink? If the answer to either is no then keep your comment to yourself and move on. It's just weird to see intolerance of any kind on a FETISH website.

[Chameleonette]

I wouldn't even know where to start with this. It's been a rough ride ever since I got into this fetish. Really rough. And you know the main reason why is?

I've always proclaimed loudly and proudly what I'm into since the very beginning, which is male preds and specifically M/F vore. And from early on, that made me a threat. A target. People attempted to bully me out, send me anon hate on tumblr (and sometimes not even anon), discourage me from making content, harass me, question my morals and myself as a person outside of the fetish---anything and everything they could do in order to either chase me out or discourage me from making the content that they didn't want to see and speaking out for a niche in the vore community that gets spoken out against, belittled, and even ridiculed. Someone here even made a second account after being banned and claimed he made it solely to harass me. And I was even told to 'get back in the kitchen'.

And you know what the community here tends to do if you mention these things? Sweep them under the rug. You'll see plenty of claims of how great the fetish community is, because a lot of the fetish likes to pretend that people into male preds and/or M/F don't exist. The fetish was so overwhelmingly unwelcoming and hateful toward what I liked when I first got into it. I almost back-pedaled right out. But I stuck it out, because I wanted to see change. I wanted to see people like me, who might have felt alienated and unwelcome, to know that they weren't alone and that people out there definitely were interested and into things that they liked too. And over the years, I have done many, many things to bring that niche of the community together and make a home for these people who felt ostracized.

There's no beating around the bush about it. I've had many messages over the years from people who said that they lurked in the community because they feared backlash for male preds or M/F. A lot of those people that I talked to identified as male pred. And that was what motivated me to make a thread here for male pred positivity. I was sad from hearing how many people literally felt ashamed because they thought their fantasies were wrong or unwelcome. And the community made this a problem whenever people would speak out about how people who like M/F or fatal male preds are 'breeding rapists' and other bullcrap like that. And that is harmful stigma to attach to a group of people who are here for the same thing that anyone else is---to share in what they like, find and create content, and enjoy it with like-minded individuals.

I almost left the fetish several times. Sometimes for months on end. Harassment on tumblr got to the point where people would tell me their fantasies about me as a pred and say they got off to it. Or how gross and 'misogynist' I was for liking male preds and undeserving, unwilling female prey. I was constantly told that my fantasies were not valid and were unacceptable. Constantly having them compared to real life, where vore doesn't belong. I've even been told by people who like male preds that M/F specifically, is unacceptable and morally wrong and that M/M is the only acceptable form of it.

And you know what? Although things have gotten better now that there are places for folks who enjoy this content to go, like the aforementioned discord server that I made, it still happens. It still happens. Just a couple weeks ago, someone attempted to guilt-trip me on tumblr for liking male preds with undeserving female prey. And tried to tell me "just be aware how it looks to people from the outside".

No one should feel ashamed for what they like in harmless fantasies. It's a safe way for us to explore things, regardless of what we're into. I don't believe in any type of kink shaming. If you're not harming yourself or someone else, you should be free to enjoy whatever you like. But male preds have a horrible stigma attached to them that repel a lot of people and there's a lot of folks in the community who think it's okay to get on a pedestal and say that such content is wrong/gross/not acceptable, or give artists/creators back-handed compliments or even tell them that they would like it 'if it was a female pred'. Guilt-tripping, moral high ground, baiting, coercion, harassment---this should never be swept under the rug. Even if you're not into something or don't agree/like it personally, you should respect that other people can and do enjoy it. There's no need to stand up and declare hate, declare discontent, etc. It will push away people who want to get involved with those things being put down, discourage them from participating, and ultimately it can---and has---made many people leave the fetish entirely.

After over five years, I'm still unrepentant. I will continue to take stands where they need to be taken. I don't care how many people tell me that I should 'be a female pred' or 'draw/make female pred content because it's more popular and people don't like male preds', or that my fantasies aren't just as valid as anyone else's. I've seen changes over these years, however small. And I won't be chased off. I have taken long breaks before when the pressure gets to be too much, but I always come back. And as the community grows, as more people see that there's a place for them and realize that hey, it's not cool to be rude/unwelcoming/hostile/guilt-trippy to someone who likes something you don't, things will continue to slowly move in a positive direction. And I will always strive to help make this happen and make a place for those people who feel like it's not okay to be a 'cruel' male pred, or not okay to like fantasies involving male preds, whether safe vore or not. Your fantasies are yours---and I urge everyone to, no matter how condescending or awful someone might be about your preferences, to remember that you're doing nothing wrong, you're welcome, and you stand on the exact same level as everyone else. There is no such thing as higher tiers or higher ground in fetishes. And I'll continue to be that outspoken, prey-identifying lady who adores male preds and M/F and who doesn't back down from anything or become complacent with people's wishes to pretend that this fetish is 'all-inclusive'. Things still need to work down this path of positive change. And I'll be here to help make it happen.

[Vorepun]

I haven't had personal experiences, but I have watched stuff happen from the sidelines. Bless this post. <3

[AylaTheCat]

People are generally more open to male preds outside of this community, in my experience.

[Dekkard2]

Just a couple weeks ago, someone attempted to guilt-trip me on tumblr for liking male preds with undeserving female prey. And tried to tell me "just be aware how it looks to people from the outside".

tumblr pretty much hates anything and everything straight and cis gendered. Also vore PERIOD looks pretty bad to people from the outside.

Or how gross and 'misogynist' I was for liking male preds and undeserving, unwilling female prey. I was constantly told that my fantasies were not valid and were unacceptable. Constantly having them compared to real life, where vore doesn't belong. I've even been told by people who like male preds that M/F specifically, is unacceptable and morally wrong and that M/M is the only acceptable form of it.

Someone here even made a second account after being banned and claimed he made it solely to harass me. And I was even told to 'get back in the kitchen'.

Oh the irony. They act like such white knights then tell a woman to get back in the kitchen.

[gullvy]

Male here, identifying as pred. I've noticed it quite a bit. However, the preference for female pred and male prey seems to be specific to Eka's Portal. There's plenty of M Pred to be found on FA or DA or wherever.

I've been writing a few stories - actually, just a one-shot and an ongoing series that I haven't gotten around to updating in more than a month. The ongoing series is M Pred POV, with mostly female prey (but also a little bit of male prey). The one-shot is M Prey POV (with female pred) and has around thrice as many favorites and views as any of the stories in the ongoing series. I've also dabbled in drawing, and again, females are definitely preferred.

Over on FA, where I've also taken to posting my stuff, I noticed two things: my stuff with males is far more popular, and people are much more inclined to post positive comments.

I've not had any problems with people harassing me, or with trying to get me to change my work, thankfully.

[Humbug]

And tried to tell me "just be aware how it looks to people from the outside".

This mentality right here just baffles me. Parts of the non-fatal crowd have said this about why their own preferences are superior to fatal, and it's equally baffling. Likewise, there are furries who say "It's not about sex!" completely ignoring that furry itself is the "problem" outsiders see.
Like...it's vore. It's ALREADY degenerate and disgusting to people from the outside. These small nuances are beans compared to the fact that vore is fuckin' weird as a whole. Either embrace all preferences (as long as they don't actually harm anyone of course) or condemn it all, because it's all part of the same screwed up fetish, and outsiders are either going to be indifferent, fascinated, or disgusted based on their own sensibilities, not based on the super-specific content we've categorized and separated ourselves into.

On a side note, it seems like this harassment is primarily in the human vore community, possibly because it's closer to reality or something. Furry vorarephiles by-and-large love male preds, regardless of whom they're ingesting. Might partly be because furries are openly gay and bi disproportionate to the bulk of society, so male furry vorarephiles are into dudes more or at least are more used to seeing dudes put into sexy situations due to exposure. I do not envy human M/F fans, and if I see harassment, I'll usually jump in and help 'em out. I just don't see the harassment as much as it happens 'cuz I don't frequent the chat at all.

[Chameleonette]

However, the preference for female pred and male prey seems to be specific to Eka's Portal. There's plenty of M Pred to be found on FA or DA or wherever.

Over on FA, where I've also taken to posting my stuff, I noticed two things: my stuff with males is far more popular, and people are much more inclined to post positive comments.

I've not had any problems with people harassing me, or with trying to get me to change my work, thankfully.

Herein lies another of my issues, really. Where male preds are liked and acceptable, is usually in anthro or monster forms (or very specifically dragons, in some cases) only.

As someone into human/humanoid/demi-human/monsterboy preds, it's even more difficult to feel like your preferences are valid. Unfortunately, for the type of content that I seek, it's predominantly M/M vore with what little can be found. Heck, same goes even for anthro (which is more bountiful), although I'm not so much into that myself. The "M/F" specific is the thing that seems to constantly get belittled from all sides or outright not accepted. Not that male preds in general don't experience backlash regardless, but the stigma toward M/F vore has been the most difficult one to deal with. Liking humanoid male preds on top of that, as well as fatal, and unwilling prey... well, it's not been a fun time, to say the least.

[dodoman_1er]

I was constantly told that my fantasies were not valid and were unacceptable. Constantly having them compared to real life, where vore doesn't belong.

TFW. I'll leave it at that.

[Eka]

As I always said. You can't tolerate intolerance. If you allow them to manipulate you, whether to get you upset or angry or to change your mind. You are letting them win.

If it happens here, well, tell me about it. I will deal with those as I always been. This site doesn't allow non-solicited requests or intolerances toward fantasy preferences for that reason.

I don't know what is the best way to handle this outside of EP, the only way to fight this is to speak out politely. Tell them their intolerance isn't welcome anywhere. That is all I can come up with. In time. People will understand that fantasy has no room for intolerance.

As for popularity, I think it is a complicated problem with no real single factor. A lot of elements has to play into it. Personally, I wouldn't wholly disbelieve that this site is overall less accepting of male human predators, or just male predators in general. However, I don't have the statistic analysis result to back anything up. Preference dynamic is way too complicated to calculate without some comprehensive and funded research.

I think it is time we as a human race merely accept that there will always be intolerance in every corner of our society. Regardless of how unfair it is. Hatred is too easy to create and stand out fair too well among moderate and reasonable voices. I am not saying we should just deal with it, but I think we should understand that no matter what our preference is, there is someone out there speaking out against it.

[windsweptcave]

I had no idea about this. It's so bizarre to me. It's SO bizarre. I honestly might have written it off as exaggeration if Chameleonette hadn't backed it up with her experience, because it's almost literally unbelievable.

Because this whole thing is bizarre. I mean, we're into vore. WE'RE INTO VORE. None of us are in a position to be throwing stones when it comes to strange, possibly problematic fantasies. I mean, I know vore is not necessarily only about sex and death, but it's not like that combination is rare here. Once you join a vore community, you'd think you're all in the same boat, right? You'd think that would push enough boundaries that any niche interest or kink would seem relatively tame by comparison.

But no. They STILL have hang-ups about gender relations being exactly how they think they should be. They're still trying to pigeonhole people based on relatively superficial physical characteristics. Those are taboos they think are important to enforce. In. A. Vore. Community.

I mean, by all means, point out sexism and uneven representation in pop culture and, you know, real life organizations. But chastising a small artist or writer for expressing their fantasies and sharing it with their friends? That's just straight-up abusive.

And when I say "still," I mean, at the time this happened or happens. It's good that it's getting better, but like, really? Still?

I hope it's better enough that at the end of this nothing has blown up in your face, JirachiWishes! It seems like it's okay for now.

(For the record, I'm not even particularly interested in M/F situations, and I still think you're the best, Chameleonette!)

[maleperduis]

No one should feel ashamed for what they like in harmless fantasies. It's a safe way for us to explore things, regardless of what we're into. I don't believe in any type of kink shaming. If you're not harming yourself or someone else, you should be free to enjoy whatever you like. But male preds have a horrible stigma attached to them that repel a lot of people and there's a lot of folks in the community who think it's okay to get on a pedestal and say that such content is wrong/gross/not acceptable, or give artists/creators back-handed compliments or even tell them that they would like it 'if it was a female pred'.

I think what happens- both in this case and for people who harass fatal vore arists- is they see something, it makes them feel bad, and they lack the emotional maturity to deal with it properly. I personally have a very specific (to the point of silliness) preference that when broken can, in the extreme case, actually make me feel pretty upset, and I admit there's a sort of mindless reflex to express that back to the artist. But everybody realises that "this made me feel bad" is a stupid comment, so they reach for some sort of justification they can wrap it up in, and with fatal vore and M/F there are obvious ones for them to find. You see this process more so in stories where people come up with all sorts of bizarre criticisms about the setting being unrealistic or what-have-you as a way of trying to find some objective explanation for their subjective feeling.

But I always overcome the reflex, because I know that my feeling of being upset is my responsibility to deal with. The artist didn't do anything wrong, they don't deserve to be made to feel bad, and I don't get to pretend that my silly preference is actually me following some noble, higher principle. And I assume lots of other people do the same. It's just the ones we don't who cause so much upset and alienation.

For an amusing example of this in a different setting, I recently stumbled on a Zootopia comic called "I Will Survive" about Nick and Judy ending a relationship very badly. The level backlash from the community of Nick/Judy shippers is unreal, and of course none of it is "this makes me feel sad". Instead it's "this is so out of character!", a criticism which I'm sure is never levelled at the million other totally out-of-character Zootopia AU comics.