M Pred hate, from a M Pred fan's perspective

[Vorepun]

I would like to point out that people aren't mad at all female pred fans, they are specifically mad at the one's showing bad behavior. Nobody thinks all female pred fans are stupid, nobody has ever said that. Saying this as someone who hangs out in mostly male pred spaces but also likes both.

[Artemis]

There are a lot of people that exclusively like Mpred that make me (as someone that likes both Mpred and Fpred) feel unwelcome in Mpred circles just because of how I see a lot of them talk about people that like fpred. It's a lot to deal with and I know most of it is in response to perceived persecution as people that like Mpred (which I also have seen). But responding to toxicity with more toxicity isn't going to make it stop. It isn't going to make it go away. Going on about the "stupid fpredders" or whatever is just going to create more animosity. Like, I've seen people bragging about drawing art of popular female pred characters as prey just to spite people that like certain female characters, not because they actually wanted to draw it as something they'd enjoy on their own; like the reason they drew it was just to upset people and "get back" at them for liking fpred. That sort of stuff is toxic and not helping at all. I've actually left a discord server for male preds because of the sort of attitude that all people that like fpred are stupid or evil or some other nonsense.

I ALSO on the same side of the coin see people that like fpred exclusively complain about artists that usually draw fpred doing mpred (whether it's a commission or something the artist just wanted to draw). I wish there was a stricter policy about stuff like this, but it'd be hard to enforce as I think a lot of these people that have this dumb need to publicly voice their discomfort/dislike of content that is clearly not for them are probably pretty socially inept and don't get why their comments aren't necessary. It just makes me so angry when I see it because God just let content creators create content that they want.

All in all, both sides alienate people in the middle that like both. :/ wish people would just chill and genuinely let people enjoy things.

This has mostly been my experience. I've been the target of quite a bit of harassment by male predator fans, though I can't say any of it was on Eka's. And that's why I prefer Eka's! Here if I leave people alone, they generally leave me alone and that seems to work out pretty well for me. Doesn't necessarily work that way on other sites, though.

I do have to ask though. Is people discussing their preferences in the comments really a problem in need of addressing? I keep seeing this example getting tossed around of somebody commenting "I wish this was a female pred." or something along those lines. I feel like those types of comments aren't usually made with malicious intent, and my concern is that if we aren't at least a little willing to tolerate hearing things we don't like, an Us vs Them dichotomy will be inevitable. Co-existing with people you don't share views with usually means being able to shrug off the little stuff. That's true in all walks of life.

[Chofeiyu]

I do have to ask though. Is people discussing their preferences in the comments really a problem in need of addressing? I keep seeing this example getting tossed around of somebody commenting "I wish this was a female pred." or something along those lines. I feel like those types of comments aren't usually made with malicious intent, and my concern is that if we aren't at least a little willing to tolerate hearing things we don't like, an Us vs Them dichotomy will be inevitable. Co-existing with people you don't share views with usually means being able to shrug off the little stuff. That's true in all walks of life.

I completely understand what you're saying, and I can honestly agree to that truth be told. On one hand it can be frustrating, because regardless of offence being meant or not, it can be upsetting to read for the creator. That being said, I find these comments don't usually come from a negative place at all, and are more so, for lack of a better term, simply people stating their preferences as you said. I know it sounds silly to a degree, but it's just not a really necessary thing to say, or a fun thing to read. That being said for something as small as that, it's a matter of picking and choosing your battles. And I think a lot of people grasp that very well, as they simply just don't respond to it.

Addressing the other thing though, I am really sorry to hear that was the case. I'm glad Eka's is this sort of place of comfort though, where you don't have to really worry about those things to such a degree, as it's honestly a rather comforting thought!

[Taniciusthefox]

Vore being an extension of sexuality, I always thought it was only natural that one's pred preference (predference?) tends to reflect whatever your sexuality is.

Among human vore fans, there would presumably be a lot more straight men. As a result, there will be a preference towards female preds. Among furry vore fans, there will be a lot more LGBT men, so there will be more of a preference for male preds.

Of course, a lot of people enjoy vore for itself so can adjust. I know straight vores who enjoy male preds so long as there are no bits involved, and ditto for gay vores who like female preds so long as there's no sex. Sexuality is complicated, and with vore, one really puts the "in" in Kinsey Scale!

Regarding the issue of demanding women play pred or hating on male preds, I think that is the standard issue of objectification. A lot of people crave sexual release so badly they forget that the people making the fantasy possible have their own feelings and desires. I have, admittedly, asked some female pred players if they could do a male once or twice. But if they could not, that was fine. Everyone has their own taste (no pun intended). With a community as large as the vore one, you don't need to be best friends with everyone. It's an opportunity to mingle and seek out likeminded people with similar preferences, and quite possibly make some friends inbetween your simulated devouring of each other.

[jaggedjagd]

.......................................

[Scrumptious]

I mean, You did kinda sorta walk into a group talking about how they're over-sexualized and having their preferences denied and then basically went 'b cool if more girls were preds hehe'. I recognize that there were other parts to your statement but it's like, I dunno, walking into a self-help group about being overweight and then going "MAN I ate like 3 muffins and I'm a TOTAL FATASS NOW" right after someone talked about their crying struggle with diabetes.

It's not so much as people are trying to shame you, but you basically just stepped on a social landmine and were kinda needlessly sexual? I don't know how to word it, but it's like tossing in a pickup line randomly among a bunch of supportive words. it doesn't fit and clearly detracts from your statement.

Hi Renael,
I appreciate what you're telling me, and I will be more sensitive in the future. Given how it's been interpreted, you are entirely correct that it detracts from my statement. I apologize for that.
At the same time, folks need to not use internet forums like this one as self-help groups. If statements like mine are too triggering, they need to get off the open internet stat. Compared to the way trolls behave, I'm a marshmallow, and a troll can wander in here at any moment.

...Uh, I’m not “lashing out.” And I get what you were trying to say, obviously female pred fans are a majority here. The support is appreciated but my point is that you probably should’ve kept that bit to yourself. Male pred fans - especially those of us into M/F - don’t need a reminder that we’re already a niche enough group as is. As others have said, it’s common courtesy and your words were honestly quite offensive regardless of intent.

Hi MidnightRose,
Compared to everything that minority groups here and elsewhere have to endure, the rebuke that I'm getting here is such small potatoes, that I'm not going to cry about it. I'm secure enough to soak it up. Also, as I said above to Renael, I realize that what I said was in poor taste, and I wish I had not. I'm sorry that I said it.

But - as I also wrote to Renael above - if what I wrote is "quite offensive", then people who are that thin-skinned should really not be participating in a forum like this one. I want to be clear: I'm not saying that you all should get out - I think this place is more important for you than it is for me, and if you think that I'm doing more harm than good here, I will certainly step back quite voluntarily. But if I upset you, then this place may just be too upsetting all around.

The problem of the male-pred haters is part of the overarching social problem of sexism in society. It's not just about this particular thing on this particular forum. A big problem in that overall war is that the allies frequently get bitten when they're trying to help. Again, I understand why that happens - the overall level of abuse makes that nearly inevitable - but it's not effective in the overall effort. People need the space to be human. There are friendlier ways to tell someone to tone something down. The changing of another person's behavior is more effective when it's being done by a friend, rather than an opponent. I hope that you'll forgive me my trespasses, and that you'll trust that I was just saying it to humanize the conversation.

Also, in that overarching context, this thread and this topic are hugely paradoxical. It's hard not to get your mind spun around by it.

[Chofeiyu]

Hi Renael,
I appreciate what you're telling me, and I will be more sensitive in the future. Given how it's been interpreted, you are entirely correct that it detracts from my statement. I apologize for that.
At the same time, folks need to not use internet forums like this one as self-help groups. If statements like mine are too triggering, they need to get off the open internet stat. Compared to the way trolls behave, I'm a marshmallow, and a troll can wander in here at any moment.



Hi MidnightRose,
Compared to everything that minority groups here and elsewhere have to endure, the rebuke that I'm getting here is such small potatoes, that I'm not going to cry about it. I'm secure enough to soak it up. Also, as I said above to Renael, I realize that what I said was in poor taste, and I wish I had not. I'm sorry that I said it.

But - as I also wrote to Renael above - if what I wrote is "quite offensive", then people who are that thin-skinned should really not be participating in a forum like this one. I want to be clear: I'm not saying that you all should get out - I think this place is more important for you than it is for me, and if you think that I'm doing more harm than good here, I will certainly step back quite voluntarily. But if I upset you, then this place may just be too upsetting all around.

The problem of the male-pred haters is part of the overarching social problem of sexism in society. It's not just about this particular thing on this particular forum. A big problem in that overall war is that the allies frequently get bitten when they're trying to help. Again, I understand why that happens - the overall level of abuse makes that nearly inevitable - but it's not effective in the overall effort. People need the space to be human. There are friendlier ways to tell someone to tone something down. The changing of another person's behavior is more effective when it's being done by a friend, rather than an opponent. I hope that you'll forgive me my trespasses, and that you'll trust that I was just saying it to humanize the conversation.

Also, in that overarching context, this thread and this topic are hugely paradoxical. It's hard not to get your mind spun around by it.

I won't lie, what you're doing is rather underhanded here. You fully acknowledge that you made an error in your statement, in fact you were told several times exactly what it was, then given a comparison, then told another time to boot. To put it bluntly, you've gone to this post as Raneal perfectly stated and kicked your own point in the butt. "I'm totally agreeing with you! But it would be cool if you girls where preds!". To top it off, in a pretty needlessly sexual manner. And heck, you even acknowledge that. But then you double back on that and play it off. And before I get into that, did you really just take their fictional example comparison as a literal one for one? Because that's honestly setting off some alarms. Anyhow, the double back. You keep dropping back to these comments that more or less seem to say the same thing, over and over. "Well if you don't like what I said, leave." But you put it up as this sort of front like you're helping somebody? "If you can't handle little ol harmless me, then maybe you shouldn't be here, tee hee!". You have this mindset of, "Other people act worse, so what I'm doing is okay!", and that's simply not the case. Don't play off people's complaints like that, and especially not in some sort of manner like you're doing us a favour. The next thing is, you keep going back to people attacking you for your own preferences, which is confusing. Nobody is doing that. Some people just got upset on the statement that you yourself admitted was just wrong in general. It's frustrating as heck to keep reading you phrase what's happening as you being some helping hand getting bitten for no reason other then your preferences. People agree'd with most of what you said. They were just upset by the gross unnecessary comment. That is literally it.

Nobody has any issues with you being in the discussion at all. Just be mindful of what you say.

[Chofeiyu]

That being said, I would like to drop the topic of the comment in general, and leave it here as is. It's not really contributing to the forum to have an argument to something like that. If you do want to discuss it further, my pm's are open, but that probably isn't the case. Apologies if I got too of track fro the original purpose of the forum to all, wasn't at all my intent.

[Chameleonette]

I do have to ask though. Is people discussing their preferences in the comments really a problem in need of addressing? I keep seeing this example getting tossed around of somebody commenting "I wish this was a female pred." or something along those lines. I feel like those types of comments aren't usually made with malicious intent, and my concern is that if we aren't at least a little willing to tolerate hearing things we don't like, an Us vs Them dichotomy will be inevitable. Co-existing with people you don't share views with usually means being able to shrug off the little stuff. That's true in all walks of life.

Speaking as an artist/creator on this site ---- yes, I do think it needs addressing. It's easy to say 'this is little so it doesn't matter', but it's in a shift of the little things that change really starts to happen on a more positive note. This is a very widespread 'little' problem. And it doubles back to the issue of entitlement. The more they think it's fine to keep leaving comments like that, the more people are going to continue to do it. And speaking as an artist/writer/creator who has gotten several comments like that over the years, as well as seen countless instances of it (especially toward artists that don't usually do male preds and 'upset' their fans by making content that they don't personally like), I find it off-putting. And for some people I know, it's also discouraging. Male pred and M/F content already isn't popular---that's not the issue here, but rather, when you work hard on something and you get a comment that just says "hey I wish this suited my prefs instead of what it is", that doesn't exactly fire you up to keep making and posting content. Some people can brush it off, but others can and will get discouraged, especially if they don't even get much in the way of feedback. Whether it has malicious intent or not (though in some cases, it's very guilt-trippy, particularly toward artists/writers that don't usually make that type of content), it's not the type of comments that I think any artist/creator wants to have on their work. It says nothing about what they created in the first place---it's just someone getting on a soapbox about how it's not what they want to see. And I don't think a blind eye should be turned to it because some folks have tougher skin than others.

[MidnightRose]

Hi Renael,
I appreciate what you're telling me, and I will be more sensitive in the future. Given how it's been interpreted, you are entirely correct that it detracts from my statement. I apologize for that.
At the same time, folks need to not use internet forums like this one as self-help groups. If statements like mine are too triggering, they need to get off the open internet stat. Compared to the way trolls behave, I'm a marshmallow, and a troll can wander in here at any moment.



Hi MidnightRose,
Compared to everything that minority groups here and elsewhere have to endure, the rebuke that I'm getting here is such small potatoes, that I'm not going to cry about it. I'm secure enough to soak it up. Also, as I said above to Renael, I realize that what I said was in poor taste, and I wish I had not. I'm sorry that I said it.

But - as I also wrote to Renael above - if what I wrote is "quite offensive", then people who are that thin-skinned should really not be participating in a forum like this one. I want to be clear: I'm not saying that you all should get out - I think this place is more important for you than it is for me, and if you think that I'm doing more harm than good here, I will certainly step back quite voluntarily. But if I upset you, then this place may just be too upsetting all around.

The problem of the male-pred haters is part of the overarching social problem of sexism in society. It's not just about this particular thing on this particular forum. A big problem in that overall war is that the allies frequently get bitten when they're trying to help. Again, I understand why that happens - the overall level of abuse makes that nearly inevitable - but it's not effective in the overall effort. People need the space to be human. There are friendlier ways to tell someone to tone something down. The changing of another person's behavior is more effective when it's being done by a friend, rather than an opponent. I hope that you'll forgive me my trespasses, and that you'll trust that I was just saying it to humanize the conversation.

Also, in that overarching context, this thread and this topic are hugely paradoxical. It's hard not to get your mind spun around by it.

I won't lie, what you're doing is rather underhanded here. You fully acknowledge that you made an error in your statement, in fact you were told several times exactly what it was, then given a comparison, then told another time to boot. To put it bluntly, you've gone to this post as Raneal perfectly stated and kicked your own point in the butt. "I'm totally agreeing with you! But it would be cool if you girls where preds!". To top it off, in a pretty needlessly sexual manner. And heck, you even acknowledge that. But then you double back on that and play it off. And before I get into that, did you really just take their fictional example comparison as a literal one for one? Because that's honestly setting off some alarms. Anyhow, the double back. You keep dropping back to these comments that more or less seem to say the same thing, over and over. "Well if you don't like what I said, leave." But you put it up as this sort of front like you're helping somebody? "If you can't handle little ol harmless me, then maybe you shouldn't be here, tee hee!". You have this mindset of, "Other people act worse, so what I'm doing is okay!", and that's simply not the case. Don't play off people's complaints like that, and especially not in some sort of manner like you're doing us a favour. The next thing is, you keep going back to people attacking you for your own preferences, which is confusing. Nobody is doing that. Some people just got upset on the statement that you yourself admitted was just wrong in general. It's frustrating as heck to keep reading you phrase what's happening as you being some helping hand getting bitten for no reason other then your preferences. People agree'd with most of what you said. They were just upset by the gross unnecessary comment. That is literally it.

Nobody has any issues with you being in the discussion at all. Just be mindful of what you say.

THIS. Exactly this, thank you.

[JackNoName]

I think what happened here with scrumptious and the rest is a perfect example of what the problem is though. I believe 99% of these kind of comments are without malicious intent and don't believe Scrumptious meant it in a mean spirited way either. They even reflected on their behavior pretty well.

The point is that even though it is not meant in a mean and discouraging way, it can really hurt a creator's enthusiasm to make the things they want and feel passionate about. In the grand scheme of things, no, its not a huge deal, there are worse things, but it still has every right to be addressed and pointed out.

[Chameleonette]

Also, not to invalidate anyone's personal issues with any part of the community, but I want to remind people that this thread was specifically about the issue of male pred-related hate and the experiences that people have had with that and addressing it as a problem that many have faced and dealt with. Pointing fingers back like 'hey there's an instance where this happened to me in the reverse!' and 'maybe they deserve this because of how they conduct themselves!' will get this nowhere, honestly. It's detracting from the issue that was originally stated and the purpose of this thread. No one is here attacking anyone else's preferences or saying they're 'bad' or 'wrong'. We're trying to conduct a conversation about a problem that has been around for a great deal of time and discussing our experiences with it and raising awareness that this problem exists. This isn't a blame game---it's about addressing that there is an issue here and trying to move forward in a positive direction.

On that note, I have found that creating niches for people into these less liked/less welcome preferences has helped. I do feel better about being a part of the community now than I did years ago. But I think that in raising this awareness, things can continue to get better. And over time, perhaps more of these lurkers who are afraid to interact or involve themselves will feel like they have a place in the vore community and can and will be appreciated and welcomed without fear of backlash. I'll continue to try to do what I can to make that happen.

[MaxTwenty]

I do have to ask though. Is people discussing their preferences in the comments really a problem in need of addressing? I keep seeing this example getting tossed around of somebody commenting "I wish this was a female pred." or something along those lines. I feel like those types of comments aren't usually made with malicious intent, and my concern is that if we aren't at least a little willing to tolerate hearing things we don't like, an Us vs Them dichotomy will be inevitable. Co-existing with people you don't share views with usually means being able to shrug off the little stuff. That's true in all walks of life.

Most of the time these comments probably aren't made maliciously, and the well-adjusted thing to do is probably to shrug them off. Speaking for myself only, I do think it's irrational that if I get say six comments and one bugs me for some reason (this reason included) it'll tend to stick with me, and it's something that can be worked on. My excuse is that I'm kind of a raw nerve after spending a day drawing and comments, maliciously intended or not, that carry the sentiment 'This is good but invalid because of my preferences' can kinda feel like a counterpunch in the soul. Doubly so when I used to spend the time to upload things in multiple places and redo tags, optimizations, titles, etc, making that a whole other process. Kinda makes a negative incentive for people to upload, and for some it might reach over into drawing in general. Having said that, it's the stimulus-reaction effect of a big audience, so... delete comments, I guess? Bringing everyone who pops in to look at porn/vore up to a certain standard of etiquette doesn't seem like it'll ever be easier than herding cats.

As for actual aggressions based on hating preferences... well, that times a million? Some people are nuts and will pull all kinds of mental gymnastics to justify why their preference is the one true preference, especially if they've made it part of their identity. Sexuality tends to get tied up in identity pretty tightly, so this seems like no surprise, and a thread like this is mostly preaching to the choir; the individuals and groups pulling the verbal assaults seem like more the hit-and-run-and-never-learn types. Or worse, they're in their own echo chambers where a thread like this gets held up as something to be spit on. Reporting and bans have been mentioned enough times that I'll just add an echo of that here. Seems like the right idea o3o

[pudgepire]

I do have to ask though. Is people discussing their preferences in the comments really a problem in need of addressing? I keep seeing this example getting tossed around of somebody commenting "I wish this was a female pred." or something along those lines. I feel like those types of comments aren't usually made with malicious intent, and my concern is that if we aren't at least a little willing to tolerate hearing things we don't like, an Us vs Them dichotomy will be inevitable. Co-existing with people you don't share views with usually means being able to shrug off the little stuff. That's true in all walks of life.

It's more than just "wish this was female pred.." (and even then, that's pretty rude? If I went on every fpred picture and said "wish this was mpred" you know people would take issue with it hah) there are people (that I have reported and done my part trying to keep Eka's streets clean) that have commented on mpred pictures saying it's gross and "wow killed my boner. unfollowing". It isn't just mpred; it happens when any artist with a decent following posts something different from their norm and it's really problematic.

It's a problem when we have artists like Boogie/Nope saying "oh, I don't know if I'll continue upload to Eka's any more" after he gets a flood of comments saying "ew male pred" "why's it have to be gay" "why does it have to be guys" etc (paraphrased) on his recent M/M sequence he uploaded.

..comments, maliciously intended or not, that carry the sentiment 'This is good but invalid because of my preferences' can kinda feel like a counterpunch in the soul. Doubly so when I used to spend the time to upload things in multiple places and redo tags, optimizations, titles, etc, making that a whole other process. Kinda makes a negative incentive for people to upload, and for some it might reach over into drawing in general...

this x2. As a content creator, I've had people feel the need to tell me that they've unfollowed/unwatched because my gallery is "too gay". I've had the people say I'm ruining characters by drawing them as pred, I've had friends that have been harassed by people "just saying their prefs :33" with the attitude of "My prefs are the only right ones and you should cater only to my tastes." that isn't harmless. it's a big problem in the community across multiple platforms (eka's, FA, DA, discord, Tumblr, etc). It's the entitlement. It puts a lot of artists/writers/etc off. They can't accept the fact that maybe something isn't for them for once. (be it mpred, fatality, scat, loli/shota, hard vore, endo, furry, human, etc. It happens in EVERY facet.)

[Mecho]

Of course I wish that more (of you) lovely ladies identified as pred, but my wishes are not your commands.

[Mecho]

Hello everyone. I wouldn't be surprised if this blows up in my face, but I'm here to raise awareness.

I am a straight female with a very heavy prey leaning. I never play a pred unless it's with one of my OCs. Of course, people in my position will probably fantasize more about guys. I love my M Preds. Personally, they're the only preds that I ever do anything with. Nothing is wrong with F Preds, because I understand that many people are in different situations, leanings, etc... but here's the issue.

If you're a girl who goes into the chatrooms here, most people automatically assume you're a giantess/a pred. If you write or draw anything with a male pred, people will comment saying they'd like it way more if it was a female pred instead. Let me say this right now, these things are rather disrespectful. In my time here, I've seen M Preds get so much negativity. I've also heard people say that M Preds don't get negativity.

I have female friends who have been harassed to play a pred. I have friends who get passive aggressive comments saying that they wish their works had a female pred instead of a male. People get upset at M Pred people for defending our stances when they're put down in one form or another... but of course we're going to defend ourselves. We're not going to stay quiet about our preferences. We're not going to let people put down what we prefer. That's not what this site is for. This site is for discussing what we like to see and sharing content that involves things we like. So don't expect us to keep our heads down and stay quiet if someone claims that F Preds are superior in every way. I'm tired of the mentality that only female preds truly matter.

I know people are going to claim that this isn't really an issue. People are going to say that I'm manufacturing drama. This is a real issue, though, and I'm not going to let it be swept under the rug any longer. This is not an attack on those who prefer female preds. This is a defense for male preds, and a signal boost that this is an issue that has gone ignored for the most part.

If you have experiences like mine or additions to the topic, discuss them here. The more people who share their experiences, the more people will realize that this is an issue. Please! Keep things civil! No preference bashing or finger-pointing! And thank you for reading this if you got this far.

You know what I hate more though? When people abuse the tagging system or intentionally mistag things to shove male preds down my metaphorical throat.

I don't know about other people, but 99% of my dislike of male preds is that I blacklist "male pred" and still get male preds, I blacklist "M/M" and still get M/M vore.

Same thing goes for M/multiple (and M/MM, M/MMM, etc), shota (pred, prey, in general), and all the other things I've blacklisted in an attempt to avoid it.

When that fails for reasons beyond my understanding, yes I hate male preds.

This has nothing to do with the topic.
And besides that, guess what? If you think you are getting male preds down your throat, what do you believe people who isn't into female preds are seing a lot of? Like really. A LOT of!

Just by Googling "vore" you will find the things you like. If you are into Mpreds, you will need to get through alot of female preds... And 10 years ago Mpreds where almost no where to be found.

[Humbug]

The proper response to "This would be better if ________":

[Reaverbot]

Funny thing is, you guys complain that you are called "misogynistic"for being into M Preds, but have no qualms insulting people who prefer F Preds as "homophobic" or "privileged brats".
Maybe the reason some of you receive so much negative feedback while others, myself included, don't is how you conduct yourself.

That accusation of homophobia doesn't come from just nowhere. It's not quite as prevalent on this site in public because people might get modded for it, but in general vore threads in other places people react to mpred often with a lot of anti-gay slurs and attempts to shut them out from posting. And even here, in a more private fashion, I've received similar vitriol for approaching people who didn't have anything regarding that in their chat profiles. Naturally it isn't everyone who dislikes male vore stuff that feels that way, but it's not completely unfounded, and blaming people for being the victims of being treated that way when all they're doing is calling a spade a spade is ridiculous.

Really, though, I totally get where you're coming from OP, as well as other people in the thread, even as someone who writes and plays mostly F pred stuff. It wasn't nearly as intense back in the late 2000s when a big chunk of the site's population seemed to be furries, but overtime I see a lot more "wish you would draw f pred instead", "wish it wasnt a guy", etc. and it's intensely grating. And not only that, but it affects some weaker-willed creators who see people who look at their stuff unhappy that they're doing something they want to and forces them back into a by-the-numbers routine due to the negative feedback. It's bullshit

[Warliny]

Let me just dump a whole seven gallons of gasoline on this fire by relating my personal experience with m-pred fans. That is to say, it might be because the specific communities I hang out in are more furry oriented or otherwise just more accepting of other people's preferences, but I've had little to no complaints about male preds in any of the communities I frequent, including the vore room in f-list, but you should never go there because it's a terrible place. I am pretty happy that male predators are becoming more of a thing in the vore community too because I dunno about you guys but I like my cute boys doing terrible things to other cute boys n' cute girls. Not so much for muscly men but that's just a personal preference of mine. So maybe I'm seeing this through a different lens, but it feels to me like if you're running up against a wall of hostility talking about how much they hate male preds, or that you art would be more attractive if it was a female predator, maybe you're hanging around with the wrong people.

That being said, with eka's being the biggest vore hub in the... world? Shrug. I guess you really can't avoid people nudging you about it when you post on the gallery but it's pretty easy to just say fuck 'em. Because fuck 'em. But that's almost a universal issue. It doesn't matter what kind of art you do, you'll always have some critic telling you that they'd like your art more if you did this or if you did that instead of the kind of work that you enjoy doing. So I unfortunately must say that you have to suffer that because people are stupid, people are rude, and people are selfish.

Just last night someone got upset that my preferences meant that they couldn't interact with me in the way that they wanted to, despite me having those preferences plainly laid out, and they tried to make me feel bad for it. Some people are jerks.

Now, on the other hand of this. Every time I have posted f-pred art or talked about one of my female characters in the wrong server I have constantly had someone telling me that they just don't like female characters. Like, they just cannot shut the fuck up about what they don't like. Nothing makes you feel less wanted than someone feeling the need to vocalize that they don't like what you do inherently because of what it's about in a space that has no formal rules against what you are doing. When I have been on f-list before, and there is an endo-only user on the chat and someone mentions digestion, they just can't stop themselves from saying that they hate digestion. I've seen people get downright hostile about the things that they don't like within the vore community that they don't have any control over, and as you can imagine, this spans quite a lot of different issues, and any given individual, if given the power to, would probably cherry-pick the entire vore community to fit the experience that they'd rather have and leave a whole lot of other people out in the cold.

So here's my prescription:
-Be excellent to one another If someone wants to do something a certain way, don't make them feel bad for it, don't make them feel excluded for it, and don't try to blame them for their frustrations. If they've got those frustrations, they already know that their frustrations are an inevitable consequence of being part of a given community, and sometimes venting those frustrations are healthy, so let them.

-Understand that some people are just assholes, and they might not necessarily be malicious assholes, just assholes who don't really get why something might bother you or understand why suggesting you change what you do is offensive.

-Do what you want to do. Whether or not people are telling you that they don't like what you like, and whether or not they are openly hostile about what you like, you are still empowered to do what you want to do, especially on a site like eka's, which has defended a considerable number of controversial topics. You'll always have a place to show off your weird vore fetishes on eka's, so just. Do it.

[Artemis]

Speaking as an artist/creator on this site ---- yes, I do think it needs addressing. It's easy to say 'this is little so it doesn't matter', but it's in a shift of the little things that change really starts to happen on a more positive note. This is a very widespread 'little' problem. And it doubles back to the issue of entitlement. The more they think it's fine to keep leaving comments like that, the more people are going to continue to do it. And speaking as an artist/writer/creator who has gotten several comments like that over the years, as well as seen countless instances of it (especially toward artists that don't usually do male preds and 'upset' their fans by making content that they don't personally like), I find it off-putting. And for some people I know, it's also discouraging. Male pred and M/F content already isn't popular---that's not the issue here, but rather, when you work hard on something and you get a comment that just says "hey I wish this suited my prefs instead of what it is", that doesn't exactly fire you up to keep making and posting content. Some people can brush it off, but others can and will get discouraged, especially if they don't even get much in the way of feedback. Whether it has malicious intent or not (though in some cases, it's very guilt-trippy, particularly toward artists/writers that don't usually make that type of content), it's not the type of comments that I think any artist/creator wants to have on their work. It says nothing about what they created in the first place---it's just someone getting on a soapbox about how it's not what they want to see. And I don't think a blind eye should be turned to it because some folks have tougher skin than others.

If I bump into a guy on the street, I can call what he did rude, stupid, and inconsiderate. I'd probably be right on all accounts. But if I called that a problem in need of addressing, I would almost certainly be wrong. There's a decent chance he didn't even do it to hurt me, and the consequence was hurt feelings. It's not only a small issue, but it's not a problem that can be easily fixed and calling him out would probably make things more hostile between us.

A lot of the examples of harassment in this thread are pretty straightforward examples of malicious intent. I definitely see something worth talking about, but this one specific example I keep seeing floated around feels a bit problematic to me--because I see it as a bump on the street.

You can criticize it and I'd be inclined to agree with you, but I feel like social awkwardness and people commenting somewhat inconsiderate things on the internet are a bit of a constant. I'm not sure you can actually get rid of that without escalating things with an aggressive moderation policy or call outs. And if the goal is to bring the community closer together, I don't think having a zero tolerance policy for comments the artist may not like or that may discourage the artist is how to get there. I feel like that would create a dichotomy more hostile than the one we already have, ultimately. You'd basically be unable to comment on anyone's work unless you're being supportive of their kinks and that's... a troublesome idea.

If I were to tell someone right now that "vore is gross/weird/terrifying", that might bother some people. It might discourage them. It might even make them not want to be around me. But... those are some of the things I like about vore. None of them are mutually exclusive with 'sexy' or 'awesome', at least within the context of fiction. I'm not even slightly attracted to boys. If I were to call a male pred terrifying, that is the closest thing I can do to empathizing with a male pred fan. That is me recognizing a quality I find enjoyable about the art and acknowledging that I can see why someone else might love it. And yet, some people might not like that. It might discourage someone. Maybe they didn't intend for their predator to be scary. A line is crossed when we treat innocent people trying to appreciate art in their own, maybe slightly awkward or inconsiderate way, the same way we treat people with malicious intent.

If I were to read a comment saying "Man, I wish this could be a male predator" I would hear someone who likes the art enough to lament that they can't enjoy it as much as others. It's not an interesting comment to me or something I'd want to reply to. I might even be a little disappointed. But it's not something I could, in good conscience, call a problem big enough to necessitate addressing. I do believe that we have to expect at least a little thickness of the skin in order to co-exist. I'm not saying you can't complain about these comments or point them out as annoying or comfort people who are frustrated about them, but I do think it's important not to nurture the idea that these comments alone are inherently deserving of a reaction greater than mild annoyance. That to me seems like it would teach people a bad lesson about reasonable expectations that can only serve to cause more pain down the road. I have these principles because they're the same principles I'd use when discussing criticism of art.

Of course, context is important here. There's a difference between saying "Boy, I wish a girl would do this to me." or "I'd like to see a female pred version of this." and "Can you draw this for me with a female pred?" or "Why do you draw male preds? Gross!" --I'm only talking about the former two. The latter two examples are of comments I'd be perfectly fine with condemning. One's an unsolicited request directed at the author themselves and the other's rude past the point that innocense can be claimed.