Why Are There More Male Prey Than Male Preds?

[stearwing]

Gee, it's almost like there's a fundamental flaw with socialism or something.

Do you really want to do this?

I spent more time laughing at this remark than you'll ever know or believe. Not because you're defending socialism - just the non-sequitor "of all the things I expected people to maybe take issue with here" nature.

I'm available over PM if you want to do that, but it might help you to know that I'm one of those insane people who enjoyed reading Das Kapital. My lapel pin is a red star. I doubt debate is necessary or productive (between us) on the topic. But you're welcome to it all the same.

No, I'm saying bringing up politics in any non-political discussion is not just utterly pointless, but also destructive to the discussion itself, as your reaction clearly shows.
Regardless of political stance, the most you'll ever get by politicising any subject is people who agree with your political views to shrug, and people who don't to think of you as rhethorically incompetent at best, and both generally incompetent and arrogant at worst.

[Nugget]

We were talking about why the majority of the users are prey, and now we are talking about socialism? Jesus.

Someone posted in the forums that a canadian psychiatric center had analized a guy who was a vorarephile. The people working at the center looked for the fetish on the internet, saw all the art, stories, found patterns in all artwork and fantasies, and they concluded that the root of the fetish is a feeling of lonliness. They also noted that in most artwork, preds always had a stuffed tummy, resembling pregnancy. So, in some way, this vore thing is like some kind of reversed pregnancy. Look at the term 'unbirth'.

So maybe, people that fantasize with being eaten are looking for some kind of motherly protection, a regression in their live, or some kind of intimate company that can't be found in real life.

I also read an article about BDSM. They interviewed a guy with a bdsm dungeon, and he said he was surprised by the amount of people that had to act very dominant in their daily lives, but were submissive in bdsm. The article said it was really hard for these persons to act dominant and take care of everyone in their lives ALL the time. BDSM supposed a "break" from this routine, a portion of time where other dominates and controls them, and is not the person who takes responsibility of taking care of himself.

I guess the same could be said about vore: people have these fantasies as a way to mitigate lonliness, look for protection, or forget about taking care of themselves.

I don't really think most users are male prey because they are weak and submissive. People can be dominant irl and be submissive in bdsm. A person can be dominant and controlling not because he is strong, but because inherent insecurities. Human behavior is really complex, and it's not really a good a idea to analize it with with a deterministic and reductionist point of view. My guess is that most people are looking for a something that is absent in their lives, and this fetish somehow makes for it.

Men are also hornier than girls. So men are most likely to use sex as an outlet for their problems. This is a guess, it isn't based on articles or anything.

[merlovinit]

Someone posted in the forums that a canadian psychiatric center had analized a guy who was a vorarephile. The people working at the center looked for the fetish on the internet, saw all the art, stories, found patterns in all artwork and fantasies, and they concluded that the root of the fetish is a feeling of lonliness. They also noted that in most artwork, preds always had a stuffed tummy, resembling pregnancy. So, in some way, this vore thing is like some kind of reversed pregnancy. Look at the term 'unbirth'.

That's pretty interesting. Did they also study the motivations of people who identify as preds?

[copb.phoenix]

We were talking about why the majority of the users are prey, and now we are talking about socialism? Jesus.

Reacting to reactions to reactions (language warning), which were in themselves reactions. To which I of course offered this answer as a reaction. (Had it just been this, I promise I'd have not posted.)

Someone posted in the forums that a canadian psychiatric center had analized a guy who was a vorarephile. The people working at the center looked for the fetish on the internet, saw all the art, stories, found patterns in all artwork and fantasies, and they concluded that the root of the fetish is a feeling of lonliness. They also noted that in most artwork, preds always had a stuffed tummy, resembling pregnancy. So, in some way, this vore thing is like some kind of reversed pregnancy. Look at the term 'unbirth'.

Can you provide a citation, a link, something to the source of this, please?

I also read an article about BDSM. They interviewed a guy with a bdsm dungeon, and he said he was surprised by the amount of people that had to act very dominant in their daily lives, but were submissive in bdsm. The article said it was really hard for these persons to act dominant and take care of everyone in their lives ALL the time. BDSM supposed a "break" from this routine, a portion of time where other dominates and controls them, and is not the person who takes responsibility of taking care of himself.

Again, can you please cite the source for this?

[Seelane]

I've seen a few topics asking why Female predators are the most commonly preferred predator on Eka's Portal and in the vore community in general and the answer I've always seen is that it's because straight males make up the majority of the fandom.

I'm not entirely satisfied with this answer because it opens up a new question: why does it seem that submissive males outnumber dominant ones? In both vore and macro I think it's generally understood that submissives greatly outnumber the dominants and most of them are male. However, Mainstream society by and large prefers dominant men, so wouldn't it makes sense for the majority of male vorarephiles to be preds? Why do you think so many males in this fetish are exclusively submissive rather than mostly dominant?

Note: I have realized that the title I chose for the topic doesn’t appropriately convey what I meant to ask and for that reason I have changed it to try to clarify what I meant to ask. The previous title was “Why are Submissive Males the Majority?”. I have also edited the question in paragraph two to more clearly reflect this. I apologize for any confusion that arose from my impercise word choice.

Its because the role of prey is more common compared to predator in general for vore. Its not a gender issue but a fetish issue in a sense. Also not all prey and pred are into BDSM so calling all prey submissive would be wrong.

[Alicodus]

I have a feeling that the ratio of submissives to dominants is also related to the fact that much of the pop culture references to vore involve turning people from the top of the food chain to prey. Such as Jurassic Park, Kong: Skull Island, The Most Dangerous Game.

Other reasons have already been stated as well, so I won't repeat them. I also feel that you could play a dominant prey character, who fights the whole way down. Prey doesn't necessarily mean completely passive I suppose. I enjoy unwilling vore, so fights are common in my sort of vore and there's nothing inherently submissive about being prey. There's a lot of facets to it. That's my $0.02 anyway.

EDIT: I'm not sure I entirely answered the original question.

As a switch, I've noted more requests from prey, both male and female, than I have for people looking to play predator for me, at least for my harder vore interests. It seems that most are interested in being prey, regardless of gender and I would wager that ratio would stay the same across the broader BDSM/kink world as well.

[IvesBentonEaton]

I'm role-flexible myself when it comes to predator or prey—not properly switch because I don't insist that my partners take turns; I’m content as long as vore happens and the story is good. I don't consider myself either particularly dominant or submissive but my years as a game master can give me a bit of a controlling bent when it comes to the environment: the story and vore has to make sense in context.

As a result, I generally end up playing the predator, along with a number of ancillary roles. The reasons for this are varied, of course, but the results are consistent with some other observations here.

[simplegreenbag]

As a dominant male pred who really doesn't have much time to spend here, I'll say I never have any problems finding submissive female prey who'll let me gorge on them. So even though anecdotal size of 2 from both of us, I think it's an accurate observation.

[Chozo]

No, incels think that something *forced* them to be celibate in an involuntary manner and are almost never accountable for their own actions.

Forced isn't the right word to use. It's more like being a victim of circumstances beyond one's control. It's like being poor. No one chooses to be poor, unless they're an ascetic. And yet many people are. Most people in the world, in fact. Out of 7 billion people in the world, probably like 5 billion of them or so are poor. Are they forced to be poor? I don't know if you could say they are forced to be, but due to circumstances outside of their control that's where they are, and where they likely remain until they die.

This is not something a true compassionate, understanding, respectful person would typically think or say. It is absolutely round-about and self-defeating. The whole concept of "incel" is an oxymoron, an insult, and blatantly open harassment toward women in itself, which is what typically drives people away from an incel, which is an ironic vicious cycle of stupidity.

Harassing someone is about targeting a specific individual, and then harassing them. It isn't harassment to talk in broad terms about a very real problem of loneliness that causes people to commit suicide. No one is saying anyone is obligated to love them. But its not wrong to talk about the despair and isolation that they feel. It isn't harassment unless someone is being targeted and harassed. I know that some men do that, but that Japanese guy who married the hologram probably wasn't one of those men. So you're using a strawman here to bash him and other lonely men like him by comparing him to someone who goes up to women and makes lewd comments or whatever. I don't think he did that. And I do not think that the majority of incel men do. They more than likely avoid any contact with women at all because they are shy or have anxiety. So they are the least likely to harass a woman.

And my personal experience as a woman, the men who claim to be incel or "destined to never have a date because women won't give give them a chance" all have this weird notion that they are "nice guys", yet they have made creepy comments ("I'll pay for your dinner if you pretend to be my girlfriend"), purposely let me win at games without letting me try on my own, unwanted gifts of things I'm trying to earn on my own, unwanted help, and sometimes even tried to hug, kiss, or grope me or my girl pals inappropriately without permission!! And so, because of the harassment and creepy shit they unsurprisingly didn't get dates and any chance they got to be in a relationship went out the window. But for some reason this was somehow forced on them and they didn't *choose* to be incel...? Um.

Again, there's zero evidence that Japanese guy was like that. He probably was shy and made no contact with women at all. He probably never offered to buy them dinner, nor any other of those creepy things you're talking about. He probably had anxiety and was shy so he never approached women at all, and look where it got him. And you might say that by being shy and never approaching a woman in his entire life for any reason that also makes him a "creep" somehow. Which means that it was a no-win scenario where he was doomed to be a creep no matter what he did or didn't do. TBH, I think that marrying a fictional character is creepy. But it was 35 years of despair and loneliness that drove him to that.

And it might be that the reason he was shy was precisely because he was afraid he would be labelled a creep. Women never say what is a correct or appropriate way to communicate with them. But at the same time, a woman will almost never approach a man. It's expected by society that a man should make the first move, but if he does then he may get called a creep. And if he is shy and never approaches a woman, then he may also be thought of as a creep. It seems to be a no-win scenario.

That's for us to decide. And since you would objectify females as a commodity for there to be more chances for men to get dates, I'm not super convinced!

I don't. And I've been here for 10 years and I've never once in that entire time ever harassed a woman. Any female can look in their private messages and confirm that there's nothing from me, because I've never harassed anyone. The same goes for males as way... I don't think I've ever privately messaged anyone, and if I did, it was never in a harassing or sexual way.

But again, you probably think I'm a "creep" anyway, even though I've never once done or said any of those things that you say makes a man a "creep".

[copb.phoenix]

Just when you think you're safe

Chozo, I'll talk with you more about all this when you open a new thread and post a link to it. Give the OP back their thread, regardless of what you think about literally anything else I've had or have to say to you at this point. This has gone on longer than even I'm willing to do, and I'm known for dominating discussions just out of habit.

If you want me to talk to you in this thread, get back on topic.

I would encourage other people to take the same stance. (No, I don't think I'm a great guy or a moderator.)

[jaykayeight]

I just wanted to add my two cents here: Its really an interesting development in this thread.
Never heard about incels before and had to google it. Some of the motives and backgrounds I can relate to and it was heartbreaking to read about the case of Eliott Rodgers.

What is somehow tenor in their case and might fit the OP discussion about preferred F/M is that they expect the females to do something, the first step, go for the catch. This can may be summed up in the idea that the men also want to be desired. But maybe think about this:

This goes for most of the people, male and female. But to be desired is idealistically a byproduct of self-awareness and minding the own business. If you take care of yourself, everything else is taken care of too. Being shy and waiting for the others to take the first step is something this world completely ignores and can't care less about, not always but most of the time. I am not saying this from a person who masters this but this I what I came across just recently. To be honest, very often I would just think that I really don't understand the world, how things work just passed me by somehow. To be very honest, there were similar thoughts Eliott had and this was a very unhealthy development.

I think what helped me was to shift the focus, desires, and expectations from outside of my body back to myself a little more selfish than before and just try to feel sexy every day a little bit more. This changed a lot! Might warn you though: You might just don't want to be the tasty snack as before and switch sides, your new self needs food! #M/F++

[Dekkard2]

I just started an incel debate thread so that threads like these don't keep getting derailed.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=54662

[SiHiUiLiSiEi]

The real answer, seems to me, has been tossed around a few times and is quite simple - there are more prey than preds as a matter of course. That's just the more popular outlet for the fetish. Ironically, despite all the preds and prey flocking here, they are really almost two wholly independent fetishes that just happen to have natural intersectionality - I mean, how many preds are prey just walking around and being 'nice', or exploring what they want through a constructed character? Being eaten is fetishized way more intensely than eating others.

Digging into why 'that' is, in a way that might share traffic with standard heterosexual male sensuality, whilst writing in a way that probably makes me sound like a dork : the sexual energy in vore is mostly placed in/on the predator. They are, visually, the only ones existing at the end of it, left sporting their filled bellies. The whole transaction is about 'their' bodies. Meanwhile and, usually, when straight males are thinking about things being hot, they aren't thinking about their bodies, they're thinking about 'her' body. Her hips, her breasts, her skin, her eyes; not his penis. This is to ignore how much of it is centered around satisfying 'that' implement. It's probably why most porn is focused on the female form, and why women are also so popular as prey, when the imagery is rooted in the sight of them slipping out of view, struggling, being drooled on, emoting...

Not to say that there isn't plenty of phallic focus. But when dudes talk about banging chicks, I don't think they 'typically' go on and on about how their penis felt (not to throw any shade at...whomever would) - it just isn't the star. Granted this isn't to say that predators can't be similarly obsessed with their prey's bodies - but once again, the fetish for consuming others is just a lot less common. It's like if porn were to focus less on how horny she is, and instead explore how horny he is, conflating arousal and... appetite? Maybe? Stock heterosexual males can be pretty particular about where they put their emphasis.

[Michele]

Finally, a topic about the question.

In my opinion, I'm starting to get tired of the trend of females being the most chosen for predators (No offense to you, ladies). I think there should be some diversity, not focusing on females.

I don't like to focus on female genders. Any males who has too many female art is considered a 'pervert' in my eyes.

[Gendor]

Any males who has too many female art is considered a 'pervert' in my eyes.

Well ouch? I tend to roleplay as male pred but I have no interest in anything with a dick, so art I like has focus on females.

As for the original post question: I read a post which also said that the reason could be due to our pack mentality. A pack can only have so many dominant forces before splitting apart and being easy pickings. The same really goes today, most are grown up that we should strive to be accepted, we should help everyone, we shouldn't be mean or hit people. But that makes us submissive as we bend towards others needs and desires rather than take what We want.
Sure, society looks up to dominant men, but that is one dangerous path. Not so much today, but just a few decades back you could become ruined in any amount of ways if you tried to push for the top. But at the same time I feel like both genders aren't really told how to act, just to "man up" or "Deal with your problems". the way I see it, the luckiest men today find a women who is able to help him reach new heights, because nobody is told how to do it.

[Artemis]

I think there should be some diversity, not focusing on females.

Any males who has too many female art is considered a 'pervert' in my eyes.

I think people should draw and enjoy what they want.
I also think trying to create a false balance where preferences are split 50/50 is perverted.

It's a perversion of self-awareness to the point it becomes toxic and dishonest. People's preferences are not based on what is original or hip. We're not a bunch of hipsters looking to feel special by liking things other people don't. Frankly, I'd find our little community intolerable if that was how we actually behaved. We have seen that type of behavior out in other fandoms and it is just the worst.

So please don't make comments like these. They're rude and reductive.

[IvesBentonEaton]

Being male, I don't have any particular dislike playing male predators; I generally fill in the roles in role-plays my partner doesn't. If they want to be predator, that's fine. If they want to be prey, that's fine. I'll play the predator, the prey, the guy selling pencils on the street corner, the greedy merchant, the diffident wizard, whatever role it takes to tell the story.

The reason I don't end up playing the male predator role more is that people seeking it usually want something else outside my preferences. One big one (if you'll pardon the expression) is same-size or extreme macro/micro; I'm picky about the size ranges I'll play. If the predator couldn't reasonably swallow the prey, it doesn't interest me much; if it's too much bigger than the prey, then the prey isn't a satisfying meal, and I'm not much into multiple vore: two at a time is about my limit. Picy, I know, but there it is. That doesn't mean that I'll never consider it, but it does reduce the chances that I'll inquire.

Likewise, I'm not much into fatal vore, either as predator or prey: I prefer to rig the game in favor of the prey surviving. This, of course, requires magic, so I generally prefer a fantasy setting. But I don't like endo; that's not what stomachs are for. So that knocks off a few more points.

Sometimes it's just that someone plays on a chat system I don't use and am not interested in installing.

I'm not complaining, mind you: I've found some very good partners here on Eka's, and I expect I'll find more as time goes on. But that's why I tend not to play too many male predators even though I have no objection to it.

Sometimes reasons are different than usually assumed.

[LightDragon]

If there were more preds than preys, the ecosystem would collapse

More seriously, I think this has something to do with a twisted version of rape fetish (talking about fantasy, no actual rape of course). Maybe some males have the fetish to be raped by female, but since today's society says that men can not be victim of rape, they instead turn towards a metaphorical version of rape, which is about eating rather than sex.

I'm not saying everyone who is into vore falls in this category, but it could be an explanation.

[RediQ]

This thread has really GONE PLACES, but to try to ignore every bit of that argument-baiting and actually address the questions in the topic, which basically boils down to why there are more submissives...

I agree with people who have mentioned that it seems like a majority of people in the community - or in fetish communities generally - lean towards a more submissive role. And I agree that that's probably true across all genders. Maybe this even extends to most people in general, but we may never know since kink is typically an extremely private subject for people and also a subject that many people never bother to delve into at all.

I definitely don't think submissiveness is a result of any sort of complex, for either gender, and being submissive does not at all imply that a person is malfunctioning or ostracized or whatever else in their regular life, whether they are a male or female sub/prey. I think it might be a bit real-world related, but in a much simpler way:

Fetish stuff is on some level a form of escapism from daily life, especially a fetish like ours which exists entirely as fantasy. And in the real world, being in control and being given all sorts of things to be in control of can be really tiring, it's basically a form of work whether you're being paid to do it or having to manage other responsibilities for other incidental reasons...

So, what do people usually want to do with their opportunities for a bit of escape/fantasy/entertainment (fetish or innocent)? They want to relax.
Which role is seen as being easier and/or more relaxing? Generally, that's a submissive role where you follow someone else's lead.

....At least, I think that's probably part of it for RP specifically. I've talked to and played with so many people in the chat who describe themselves as prey-leaning switches (myself included), and if the subject comes up, we often agree that playing a dom/pred can be fun but also can be very draining, while getting to be prey lets us really relax and let loose. Maybe this is also a case of a lot of submissives learning to play both roles to satisfy each other (rather than being "true" switches, if such a concept exists) that makes these things shake out like that, but even if that's true, it helps illustrate part of why the sub role seems more common/preferred.


When you're opening up the question to include things like the art pages, I think there's a lot more factors that come in. For example, this one, which feels extremely spot-on to me:

Just want to say that I think a reason that many men prefer female preds is that you primarily see the pred in various artworks. Some pics doesn't even show an internal shot of the prey. Hence you probably want it to be the sex you're attracted to which features most prominently which then leads to primarily female preds.

A few people have also mentioned how being within the stomach is easier to see as the more intimate, sensation-rich experience, and yeah, I think that analysis is a big part of it too, whether talking about the gallery or the role-play or with vore in general. The same is often true even in less-niche kinks like BDSM, for example the person getting spanked or whipped or whatever is the one feeling the brunt of all the physical sensations, not the dom who is just inflicting them. (And yes, obviously there's not a one-to-one comparison between vore and other kink, especially for people who like non-sexual vore, but in this case of "who is feeling what" I think it's applicable.)

[Kitsouille]

It's a good question but it's not really an issue and there's not really any solution to it. It just turns out most people are this and are into that.

I think people should draw and enjoy what they want.

Like, basically this. It's an interesting subject worth debating about but in the end it's really what it's all about I guess.