Preferences, Entitlement and Etiquette. A vent of sorts.

[TheVoreEngineer]

Some things to preface this whole post.
1) You are allowed to enjoy whatever you like. You can enjoy any genders, any size difference, any vore type you want, this whole post is about being able to freely enjoy what you want and not to attack people.
2) This is not an attack on anyone in particular. Those of you that could be 'implicated' here, I am not singling you out, I am just venting about a problem I am starting to see more and more in the wider vore community.

Ok, so with vore, we have a fuck ton of different preferences. I myself mostly enjoy F/M same size human oral vore, while also enjoying a variety of other preferences alongside it, but someone else might enjoy M/M macro/micro anthro cock vore, we all have the different flavours of what we enjoy in vore, and as prefaced at the start, that is fine, good even! Having so many people enjoy different things is good. But as I attach myself more and more to this community, I notice something that is becoming more and more frustrating. More or less, the assumption that the site exists purely for the gratification of the individual rather than as a source for the gratification of a variety of different people is becoming more and more apparent. Again, I'm not here to attack anyone's preferences, they are yours if anything I want you to be proud of them and enjoy whatever you want. The issues are when people start trying to shame, belittle or otherwise put down people for their choice in preference. If it is in chats, forums, writing, art, RP, there seems to be an underlying issue of people expecting people to bow to their own preferences.

For example, on art pieces and writing, I've more and more noticed comments as such. (Please note these comments are purely examples and not real comments, any likeness to such is coincidental.)

Ah, not a huge fan of M/F personally.
Are they going to be ok? I hope they'll be ok.
Looks good. Can't wait to see some oral vore from you!

At first glance, you might think all but the first comment are fine, but I want to stress this, even if it isn't intentional, Please do not comment on something based off preferences. Artists, writers, roleplayers, every member of this community who creates content in one form or another puts in their time and effort to create things. These artists and creators have preferences too. They are most likely going to create things that co-inside with those preferences. But instead, you, intentionally or not, belittling this time and effort that people put in because something doesn't associate to your tastes. I'll reiterate again, you can like whatever, but so can creators. I can understand if you don't enjoy certain things, but that isn't a platform to belittle something. Just, move on, accept the item isn't for you, and, move on, you don't need to try and alert a creator to what essentially boils down to "I don't like this because it isn't for me." It's belittling, it's frustrating, and it chips away at any motivation to continue producing artwork. I know of too many who already have, and others currently on the verge of leaving because they feel like they aren't allowed to do what they want, and the fact it can get to that point is beyond infuriating.

In a different context, think of it like this. It's your birthday, and you have a friend who comes around, and presents you with a wonderful chocolate cake they slaved away making the entirety of yesterday. But, you don't really like chocolate cake, and much prefer cheesecake. Instead of being courteous, maybe having a slice, saying "thank you" for it, even if you aren't exactly thrilled with it, but can still appreciate the effort put in, you just shove it away and say "Eh I prefer cheesecake" or "Is there a chance you could make cheesecake? I hope you can make a cheesecake" or "eh, looks fine. Can't wait to see you make a cheesecake though!". As the friend, I would feel the effort I put towards you is a wasted effort, it's demoralising, it makes me feel less wanting to create anything for you again because if it doesn't suit you, you actively belittle my effort. It's not a perfect analogue for the situation at hand, it's much more personal than what artists and writers here face, but it still conveys the sense of pity and frustration that comes from this whole issue.

I also suspect the question of "So just ignore the comments" or "lock comments off to just friends" as answers to the whole debacle. The first one is a loaded point. If it's there, you can actively ignore it, but it doesn't change the fact that at some point, any creator will eventually see the comment, and it still, even just in that first moment, be a demoralising element for creators. To know your work is being rejected, especially those who are smaller creators who barely get comments, because of what you enjoy. It, even if removed, ignored after being seen, it can leave that lasting feeling of rejection, for something you put in hours of work for. The second one is "technically true" if it really is an issue, gating the comments (If you wish to do this please see Renael's little tutorial) can be a method of stopping the public visibility. But it's still no real solution. Private Messages still act as a method to contact and potentially harass users, comments allowed or not. Restricting comments purely to friends is something that also cuts out the people who are new to a creator, but want to express their enjoyment of a piece, it ultimately will shut out more good than bad, even if it does somewhat control the bad.

Ultimately, all I ask of people to be courteous of other preferences. I'm not saying you have to love everything forever, but what I'm saying is at least try to be mindful of others. Try to show Etiquette to others, be mindful that they're as human as you and have their own reasons for what they enjoy. You don't need to let them know that it's not your cup of tea, you know that, and you can move on and leave it. You don't need to harass creators to make content that you enjoy, instead, try to find creators who create what you enjoy instead. Even if they make the occasional piece of content that doesn't line up with that, just wait for something you do like. If a creator shifts their focus and has a new preference, don't harass them to make more of what you want, instead enjoy what they've already made, and move on to another creator that makes what you like. All I want to see, is people show those around them the common decency to accept the preferences of creators who put their time and effort into creating free content for you to browse.

I'll leave this little vent, rant, whatever it is on a quote from the Eka's Portal Etiquette thread,

Finally: All preferences are Equal!
What fantasy you enjoy do not, I repeat, do not make you a better person. Or the worst person, for that matter. This is a core principle this site has always held, and you, as a member, must uphold this without reserve.
This is not just a suggestion. This is mandatory.

So, please, try to show those around you some human decency, we're a niche already, what point is there in driving away creators because they don't make what you enjoy.

~V. Engineer

[coop500]

Nicely said Engi! All very valid points that, with any luck will help prevent this from happening in the future.

[AngelTheGood]

Interesting. I definitely agree that some people seem to have weirdly backhanded comments. And the narcissistic people always want to comment with how it applies to them and don't realize that they don't have to comment on everything. They seem to think it's valuable in someway.
I find there is also a mixed bag with some of this, which are the additions.
Example: "Ah, not a huge fan of M/F personally, but you did a great job with this". For me this is a pretty great comment because it suggest that my work is transcending their tastes.
"Are they going to be ok? I hope they'll be ok. I hope there's a sequel." Again the addition does some what change this into a "encore" moment. Even the "Looks good. Can't wait to see some oral vore from you!" really feels more like an applause of my core skill and less about what I'm demonstrating in that particular piece.
Mixed feelings but I get your points. I mean, I've had someone literally say on a commission price page that had a variety of my art to show my skill "I only like F/F" nothing else. As if I give a flying fuck or as if that information is useful to me or anyone. So I completely get where this is coming from.

[Vermono]

You say that and although I agree with pretty much everything you just said... you do have to be realistic at some point.
I get it, vore is a very niche fetish that we all share. Why else would we be on the website. And like you said, it is okay to like what you like. It can be vanilla vore were the person is inside a stomach or exotic vore were someone is inside a boob or a testicle. If you really stand back and just look at us from a distance... you could really just see how fucking weird this fetish is but to be fair, vore isn't the "strangest" fetish out there.

BUT

You have to draw the line somewhere. This place for the longest time was basically the wild wild west were anything really goes. It was only recently that the child and underage tags was banned because people were making, drawing, and writing stories about children in sexual ways. Thats borderline pedophilia but just without the actual act. I'm not trying to stomp on anyone's toes here but we've got to be realistic. Some things just shouldn't happen.

Also, the "Are they going to be ok? I hope they'll be ok" line. I get it, you want to protect the "different strokes for different folks" kinda deal and I know it kinda comes with the territory but the whole..."death fetish" that goes on around here is kinda concerning. Like people are literally making porn about people killing each other. Murdering other people. Of course this is done through digestion because this is vore but murder is murder. Am I the only one that sees the problem with this? This is like making porn about rape or child beating...(which I wouldn't be to surprised if it was already on here)...
Now I am not one of those people that comments on other peoples works and complains about what I see. I rarely comment at all actually and if I saw something I didn't like I was just ignored it and move on. Like how you recommended. But of course I would also find things I do like but in the work are things I also don't like. Which at that point I act like the Catholic church and pretend like nothing bad is happening while the priest is raping a small boy behind the alter...

In summary, yes people should be able to like what they like. It can be m/m, f/f, m/f, f/mmmmmm, cock, oral, breast, anal, nose for all I care, vore and people shouldn't have a problem with it. If you are straight as a nail and don't like seeing men in pornographic images, then just leave and find something else you like, not voice your displeasure over something and tell them to do a subject they don't like or don't want to do. BUT like everything, there should be some kind of limitations to this. (And before I go on, I am completely aware of the hypocrisy of me saying that we shouldn't have a problem with what other people like and me having a problem with people liking digestion.) But maybe its just me but I think there is a bit of a difference between someone commenting on a work and saying that they don't like that the main...vorer?...is a guy or a girl or that they suggest the do a different art piece with something completely different in it than someone saying "I hope they survive" because the first two are selfish since it doesn't fit into their own view of sexuality while the other one doesn't want the person to literally DIE... "but what if murder fits into their view of sexuality" I can hear someone already saying... well... I guess... please don't fulfill that desire out in the real world please and thank you... because that's kind of... bad...

BUT WHO CARES WHAT I THINK, I'm just some random schmuck thats been here for a while and never comments. I could be wrong! That's always a possibility. I did after all just say a unpopular opinion inside of a room full of Italian mobsters with guns. I'm sure nothing could go wrong here.

[TheVoreEngineer]

Interesting. I definitely agree that some people seem to have weirdly backhanded comments. And the narcissistic people always want to comment with how it applies to them and don't realize that they don't have to comment on everything. They seem to think it's valuable in someway.
I find there is also a mixed bag with some of this, which are the additions.
Example: "Ah, not a huge fan of M/F personally, but you did a great job with this". For me this is a pretty great comment because it suggest that my work is transcending their tastes.
"Are they going to be ok? I hope they'll be ok. I hope there's a sequel." Again the addition does some what change this into a "encore" moment. Even the "Looks good. Can't wait to see some oral vore from you!" really feels more like an applause of my core skill and less about what I'm demonstrating in that particular piece.
Mixed feelings but I get your points. I mean, I've had someone literally say on a commission price page that had a variety of my art to show my skill "I only like F/F" nothing else. As if I give a flying fuck or as if that information is useful to me or anyone. So I completely get where this is coming from.

Yeah, looking back the "don't use preferences in comments" thing is probably a bit too far, and there are for sure, positive methods of including them in comments, but it also depends on context as well I guess. Undoubtedly my examples are on the lighter side, and as you've shown it isn't hard to turn them into more positive comments, but I still feel using them is better indicative of the expectations some people can unwillingly or willingly try to force onto creators. I won't change it for the sake of trying to improve my argument after posting, that feels a little disgenuine, but yeah I will acknowledge that preferences in comments can be used for positive effect, I've just seen much more of the bad than good sadly.

You say that and although I agree with pretty much everything you just said... you do have to be realistic at some point.
I get it, vore is a very niche fetish that we all share. Why else would we be on the website. And like you said, it is okay to like what you like. It can be vanilla vore were the person is inside a stomach or exotic vore were someone is inside a boob or a testicle. If you really stand back and just look at us from a distance... you could really just see how fucking weird this fetish is but to be fair, vore isn't the "strangest" fetish out there.

BUT

You have to draw the line somewhere. This place for the longest time was basically the wild wild west were anything really goes. It was only recently that the child and underage tags was banned because people were making, drawing, and writing stories about children in sexual ways. Thats borderline pedophilia but just without the actual act. I'm not trying to stomp on anyone's toes here but we've got to be realistic. Some things just shouldn't happen.

Also, the "Are they going to be ok? I hope they'll be ok" line. I get it, you want to protect the "different strokes for different folks" kinda deal and I know it kinda comes with the territory but the whole..."death fetish" that goes on around here is kinda concerning. Like people are literally making porn about people killing each other. Murdering other people. Of course this is done through digestion because this is vore but murder is murder. Am I the only one that sees the problem with this? This is like making porn about rape or child beating...(which I wouldn't be to surprised if it was already on here)...
Now I am not one of those people that comments on other peoples works and complains about what I see. I rarely comment at all actually and if I saw something I didn't like I was just ignored it and move on. Like how you recommended. But of course I would also find things I do like but in the work are things I also don't like. Which at that point I act like the Catholic church and pretend like nothing bad is happening while the priest is raping a small boy behind the alter...

In summary, yes people should be able to like what they like. It can be m/m, f/f, m/f, f/mmmmmm, cock, oral, breast, anal, nose for all I care, vore and people shouldn't have a problem with it. If you are straight as a nail and don't like seeing men in pornographic images, then just leave and find something else you like, not voice your displeasure over something and tell them to do a subject they don't like or don't want to do. BUT like everything, there should be some kind of limitations to this. (And before I go on, I am completely aware of the hypocrisy of me saying that we shouldn't have a problem with what other people like and me having a problem with people liking digestion.) But maybe its just me but I think there is a bit of a difference between someone commenting on a work and saying that they don't like that the main...vorer?...is a guy or a girl or that they suggest the do a different art piece with something completely different in it than someone saying "I hope they survive" because the first two are selfish since it doesn't fit into their own view of sexuality while the other one doesn't want the person to literally DIE... "but what if murder fits into their view of sexuality" I can hear someone already saying... well... I guess... please don't fulfill that desire out in the real world please and thank you... because that's kind of... bad...

BUT WHO CARES WHAT I THINK, I'm just some random schmuck thats been here for a while and never comments. I could be wrong! That's always a possibility. I did after all just say a unpopular opinion inside of a room full of Italian mobsters with guns. I'm sure nothing could go wrong here.

First off, as long as you're bringing some actual discussion to something and not just attacking people or arguments, never feel that your voice is invalid, we all have opinions and ideas that we want to share, don't feel down on yourself for sharing. tbf I semi agree with you, some content shouldn't be allowed, but the core of the argument here is more surrounding the idea that you should at least be respectful to people for what they enjoy. You are allowed to not like digestion. You are allowed to have an absolute hatred towards digestion. All my argument is posing is that you show the etiquette to others to not chastise them for their opinions. Different people find different reasons to find pleasure in vore. Hell, I first identified as a prey because I wanted to commit suicide and being a prey gave me a feeling of purpose in death. That's changed, but people see different reasons to enjoy whatever fantasy they want. At least from my perspective anyway. I mean my post and response are just opinions of mine too, ones I hope people share, but opinions none the less.

[ADAMMMM]

In response to MrInsideHer, I think a lot of this boils down to how potentially dangerous or immoral these fetishes are, and then how authoritarian a stance you want to take. We have already drawn the line, as you correctly said we should somewhere, by saying there can be no real life content on here. Any sort of RL vore or content with children I'm sure would be instantly removed and the uploader/creator booted. I think this is correct. As soon as you start drawing the line elsewhere it gets very subjective, and there isn't much moral grounding for it as far as I can see. Is rape acceptable in stories and cartoons as long as there's no killing? Does killing have to be consented to? Does all vore have to be consented to? Is digestion allowed? Is underage allowed? Is torture allowed? How would you go about rationalising why including underage characters is uniformly banned whilst raping, torturing, eating and disposing of someone is acceptable? You also then run in to the very real question of definitions, and arbitrarily deciding when someone has crossed certain lines. It's a fetish site and people should be allowed to fantasise about what they will, as long as there is no RL content. That's my view anyway.

And to the subject point, I think you're making a mountain out of a mole hill. If you're making content that's purely for your own enjoyment why does it matter what other people think, and if it's a big deal to you just turn comments to only friends. I would imagine most comments would be something along the lines of 'Can't say I really enjoy M/F, but the artwork looks great.' Most people I've met on here have been polite, and the comments I've read generally reflect that. The flip side to this as well is that some content creators might really appreciate the feedback. If you create a M/F giant OV story, and you get half a dozen comments or PMs telling you how much they'd like to see you do a F/M piece, that might be worth considering, particularly if some of them might potentially become patrons. As for people wanting their own preferences to be hit... this is a vore site which for most is a sexual fetish. It's always going to be somewhat individualistic, people want to feel their needs met to feel excited or engaged with artwork or writing. Ultimately as I said, I don't see it as a big deal. I'll start posting my own writing over the week post-Christmas, and would welcome those sorts of comments you highlighted.

[pudgepire]

... It was only recently that the child and underage tags was banned...

The underage tag wasn't banned. All of the content was hidden while Eka works to find a new webhost that will allow it.

... Like people are literally making porn about people killing each other. Murdering other people. Of course this is done through digestion because this is vore but murder is murder. Am I the only one that sees the problem with this? This is like making porn about rape...

Consensual Non-consent is actually a pretty common/popular search tag as far as "vanilla" kink-porn goes. Aside from that, it's fantasy. Having an issue with people liking digestion/hard vore in a fantasy context but not taking issue with the concept of vore as a whole is kind of ridiculous. (that being said, I'm not saying anyone has to enjoy/look at/want to look at any sort of specific content; you are free to dislike or like whatever you want, as Engi said) "Digestion is murder!" vore is cannibalism. Eating someone alive and whole is twisted and absolutely fucked up, maybe more-so if you plan on doing endo because they're being kept prisoner against their will. "but what about willing vore!" There's also willing vore that ends in digestion, too. Trying to get on any kind of high horse when you like a weird/niche fetish is utterly ridiculous.

But maybe its just me but I think there is a bit of a difference between someone commenting on a work and saying that they don't like that the main...vorer?...is a guy or a girl or that they suggest the do a different art piece with something completely different in it than someone saying "I hope they survive" because the first two are selfish since it doesn't fit into their own view of sexuality while the other one doesn't want the person to literally DIE... "but what if murder fits into their view of sexuality" I can hear someone already saying... well... I guess... please don't fulfill that desire out in the real world please and thank you... because that's kind of... bad...

Pretty sure nobody is trying to act out vore IRL unless they have major mental issues and need some very drastic intervention. Again, vore is a fantasy kink that basically surrounds dom/sub dynamics. People have different levels they enjoy. It's honestly pretty insulting to imply that people that like digestion/fatality in vore are somehow "more fucked up" or unhinged than people that prefer strictly safe/endo. It's fantasy. It hurts nobody. The comments are unnecessary and border on kinkshaming on either side. If you don't like fatality, just don't look at those images or imagine a different outcome or whatever.

It's annoying for content creators to feel like they can't do anything different than their "norm" for fear of people whining or threatening to unwatch/unfollow or without risking being harassed/berated for doing something different (be it because they want to or because they got paid to do it.) We don't exist solely to cater to your (general your, not a specific finger pointing at anyone in particular) wants. They have thoughts and desires and are their own person. There are many artists that leave eka's and stop posting art publicly because of the sort of bullshit Engi described in his post. I primarily create F/? content of the same-size variety. When I first started making boys, I had someone message me telling me they were unwatching because they didn't like guys. That's fine, unwatch away. Why bring it to my attention though? Is it supposed to make me feel bad for drawing guys? Is it supposed to discourage me from drawing guys or encourage me to only draw females? It did neither. If anything, it only makes me want to draw more dudes to weed out the whiney jerks that can't deal with 2 pictures out of like 30 not being their exact, specific like.

Here's a hot take: if you want a content creator to make a specific thing, pay them to do it! If you can't/don't want to do that? Keep your opinions on what you think the creator should do instead of what they posted to yourself and enjoy all the content you get for free.

[TheVoreEngineer]

And to the subject point, I think you're making a mountain out of a mole hill. If you're making content that's purely for your own enjoyment why does it matter what other people think, and if it's a big deal to you just turn comments to only friends. I would imagine most comments would be something along the lines of 'Can't say I really enjoy M/F, but the artwork looks great.' Most people I've met on here have been polite, and the comments I've read generally reflect that. The flip side to this as well is that some content creators might really appreciate the feedback. If you create a M/F giant OV story, and you get half a dozen comments or PMs telling you how much they'd like to see you do a F/M piece, that might be worth considering, particularly if some of them might potentially become patrons. As for people wanting their own preferences to be hit... this is a vore site which for most is a sexual fetish. It's always going to be somewhat individualistic, people want to feel their needs met to feel excited or engaged with artwork or writing. Ultimately as I said, I don't see it as a big deal. I'll start posting my own writing over the week post-Christmas, and would welcome those sorts of comments you highlighted.

I mean, when it's getting to the point that people with millions of views are getting burnt out due to people's complaints, I wouldn't call it a molehill issue anymore. I might be overstating the argument, sure. Not everyone on the portal does this, most people don't in fact, but it doesn't change that it's ultimately still an issue and one I feel strongly about because people I consider my friends are being negatively affected by it. I understand the feeling of "I've never seen it, what's the big fuss" but as I've gotten to know artists, much of it happens behind closed doors with Private Messages, and there are the public comments out there more demanding of people, which either end up being removed or forgotten as the stream of new uploads progresses. Everyone but the creator forgets, stop's caring, but to the one person it matters to, it can have effects beyond just what can be seen as a 'comment'. With the whole '' I wouldn't mind these comments' situation, here's the thing, neither would I, but that wasn't my argument. My request, the whole reason for this piece is asking people to respect the preferences of others. If you leave a comment like that on my stuff, I'm fine with it because I write a wide array of stuff, and I enjoy writing a good variety of it. If you want to leave that kind of comment on other stuff from people that like making a variety of stuff, sure, that's also fine. It becomes an issue when say, the m/f comment is left on an artist who specifically has stated they only make m/f content because that's what they enjoy. The comments were never my point, all I want to see is a push for better respect for creators preferences. If people are desperate to feel their needs fulfilled, there's a variety of other creators who can fill that desire for them, it's not on the onus of the creator to cater to the whims of their audience unless it's a paid arrangement.

[number12321]

I think there are some great points being made. I think it can be possible to tell an artist your preferences without coming across as rude or making them less likely to continue contributing. I think it is important to never discourage work being done, but there are some approaches to let an artist know your preferences that seem completely ok to me. If I like an artist and they do a work that goes into a topic that interest me, maybe anal vore or something, I would feel fine leaving a comment like, "My favorite type of vore from one of my favorite artist, amazing!"

That might be wrong but it feels like a safe way to let an artist know that they have appealed to a member of their audience, but does not discourage future work of any form. I guess what I'm saying is, if you have a preference, tell an artist when they satisfy it rather than when they don't. Wanting to encourage an artist to consider making vore you like more often through positive feedback seems different than wanting to discourage an artist from making whatever they are working on to instead make content that satisfies your preference. Personally, I like knowing when I hit someones niche. Though I don't like hearing when I did not address someones niche.

In the cake analogy I would say that telling someone cheesecake is your favorite when they bring you chocolate is crappy, but if they ever make cheesecake that is a great time to say that they made your favorite cake. Obviously still be mindful to be kind and avoid appearing entitled to getting more cheesecake in the future. "I love cheesecake, thank you" is fine to say and might make the person happy to make cheesecake more often, "Finally you started making the right cake" not so good and might leave the baker just sick of making cake for ungrateful asshats.

Honestly a few years ago I would have thought, "how can a small comment discourage someone, and if it can then that person certainly isn't passionate about what they do". After starting to contribute my own work I now really get how important even little complements and encouragements can be, and how devastating unthoughtful words can be on my desire to continue contributing. So no matter what I want to echo the importance of being kind and respectful to content creators and their work.

In summary, yes people should be able to like what they like. It can be m/m, f/f, m/f, f/mmmmmm, cock, oral, breast, anal, nose for all I care, vore and people shouldn't have a problem with it. If you are straight as a nail and don't like seeing men in pornographic images, then just leave and find something else you like, not voice your displeasure over something and tell them to do a subject they don't like or don't want to do. BUT like everything, there should be some kind of limitations to this. (And before I go on, I am completely aware of the hypocrisy of me saying that we shouldn't have a problem with what other people like and me having a problem with people liking digestion.) But maybe its just me but I think there is a bit of a difference between someone commenting on a work and saying that they don't like that the main...vorer?...is a guy or a girl or that they suggest the do a different art piece with something completely different in it than someone saying "I hope they survive" because the first two are selfish since it doesn't fit into their own view of sexuality while the other one doesn't want the person to literally DIE... "but what if murder fits into their view of sexuality" I can hear someone already saying... well... I guess... please don't fulfill that desire out in the real world please and thank you... because that's kind of... bad...

I get what you are saying. I think there is a discussion to be had in if there are limits to where fantasy should go and furthermore what those limits are. I don't think this discussion belongs in the comment section of work that we think goes to far. Take moral issues up with Eka or maybe even the law. Don't take it up with the person submitting the work, this should be a site that people feel safe exploring their fetish under the guidelines of the site. Things like real life vore are rightfully prohibited, if you feel like digestion should be also limited, dont bring that to someone following the rules, take it up with the person writing the rules.

You seem to be offering moral reasoning as grounds to justify voicing critique, but then people all have very different morals. m/m and f/f might upset a homophobe, but that would not give them the right to voice distaste for the work. I don't see how its any different really. The notion you give that voicing dislike of digestion is selfless seems flawed. You can't claim it is selflessness when the only person who is impacted negatively is the one complaining, there is no suffering from the prey, only the reader or viewer.

I know this all comes across as abrasive, I honestly get where you are coming from. The morality of my taste is something I occasionally struggle with. I have thoughts and opinions on why I believe liking what I do is not wrong, but this isnt the place to have that discussion. As of now, eka's is not the place to tell people that digestion is wrong or upsetting. If you don't like that, again take it up with Eka, or if you feel like it is legally wrong take it up with the law.

Hell, I first identified as a prey because I wanted to commit suicide and being a prey gave me a feeling of purpose in death.

That's really interesting. I have similar origins in liking vore, and appreciate you sharing that.

[Chameleonette]

I hope that this does raise some awareness (and hopefully encourages more tactful responses to art/creations), because this has been a widespread issue here for a long time.

As someone deep within the M/F community and lover of male preds, a lot of the work that I tend to follow and look at has many of these types of comments. Some are more blatant than others. Straight up "Ewww male pred" and "If you're doing this type of stuff now, I'm unfollowing you" are common ones, especially toward artists/creators that usually do female ones. And I also see a lot of "Will you do a female pred version of this?" on both art and stories in the M/F tag. Or the ever-common "I like this, but I would like it a lot more if it was a female pred" or "I wish there was content like this with F/F", etc.

This isn't really a "I see it once in awhile" issue, either. Within the last week or two, I've seen several artists' works receive these types of comments (and thankfully they do often get called out more). Also pretty recently, I even had to take someone to PMs to fully explain why their need to get on a soapbox to declare what their prefs were and why they were happy to see something of mine "without a male belly in it" was rude and unwelcome commentary. Artists/Creators generally do not want to hear this, especially when they specialize in the content that is being downplayed, having shade thrown on it, or outright rude comments made toward it. And I literally had to explain, thoroughly, to someone who thought "I just want to announce my prefs to the creator" viewed that as tactful and acceptable and literally argued with me about it. And it's not tactful. It's manipulative and rude when it directly corresponds to taking shots at what the creator doesn't 'usually' do, or content you'd 'rather' see instead. Entitlement is wide-spread here. And back-handed compliments and passive-aggressive comments are so common that most people don't even call them out. And the thing about those comments not being dealt with or corrected for tactlessness and such just means that more people will see those comments and think "Oh, it's fine to be forward about something not suiting my preferences and telling the creator that and what I want to see from them instead."

Speaking as a creator, I don't share things to be told "I liked this, but would like it better if ____" or "I don't like male preds / M/F but ___", "She's gonna be safe, right?", etc, etc, etc. I don't think I speak only for myself in saying that these comments can be discouraging and irritating. Tags are used for a reason---if there's something you don't like or don't want to see, you can simply avoid the tags. There's really no reason to get up on a box and declare to the creator what your preferences are that don't match what they're posting, or to put pressure on them about whether it's fatal or non-fatal. And throwing in back-handed compliments doesn't help that and doesn't gloss over it.

I think if more people were on the look-out for these types of responses and attitudes and less tolerant of it, there would be a lot less of it. But with the largely blind-eye that tends to be turned toward it, people are going to continue to think that entitlement toward artists and creators is okay and acceptable. And content is shared because a creator decides to share something that they put time and effort into creating---they decided to share that with the community. It costs you nothing to look at it. And if you didn't buy it, I don't think there's any reason whatsoever to be telling the artist what you want to see instead or what you like better. I feel it's common respect and courtesy. Critique never equates to "I like x better than the y you did." Pushing a creator to do one type of content or another or to change their content to suit you (however 'nicely' it might be worded), if you're not paying for it, is out of place. Speaking from the artist POV, it's frustrating for me. Some of us are doing niche content as is, compared to a lot of the bigger and more widely-accepted and welcomed areas of vore.

I feel that most people want to be appreciated or complimented for what they do, not what they didn't do or have commenters rub other preferences in their faces. It really is just a matter of common courtesy and respect---and that's toward all prefs and instances where this happens, not just what I focused on. I used M/F and male preds to explain my POV, since that's the niche that I'm in and that's where I have seen excessive amounts of his behavior.

[Doku]

I hope that this does raise some awareness (and hopefully encourages more tactful responses to art/creations), because this has been a widespread issue here for a long time.

I'd like to emphasize what Chamel said here. This has been around for a very very long time, as in: Since YumChat and since before there was an Eka's Portal, based upon what people said to me in the early days of Eka's when I joined the community. The issue of a light passive-aggressive 'why don't you do vore the way I like vore?' that is hinted at has always been a pervasive element within the community so long as there's been a community. I used to think it was a 'growing' phenomenon until I looked back at old commentary on art and RP by artists I started out with here. It was as prevalent in 2006, when I joined, as it is in 2018 today. It was prevalent before that on TapestriesMUCK and FurryMUCK where there was occasional elitism over public scenes I'd do that weren't 100% to everyone's taste (Given my penchant for gore, horror and torture, it's not necessarily as surprising.).

It's not really a growing issue. It's just an issue that has always been around and always will be around. Appreciators of art and RP and story simply need to be mindful that all of the variants are basically equal and should be respectful of each other while complementing one another. We aren't going to suddenly 'convert' someone's preferences to something different than they already are. Just enjoy the art that you enjoy and appreciate that it is there. Now this doesn't mean colorful commentary is inappropriate. Just be a little mindful of how it might be perceived what you are saying means.

[dodoman_1er]

But as I attach myself more and more to this community, I notice something that is becoming more and more frustrating. More or less, the assumption that the site exists purely for the gratification of the individual rather than as a source for the gratification of a variety of different people is becoming more and more apparent.

This, I find is a growing problem that applies everywhere, and not simply to this site or to kinks in general, which is quite worrisome.

[Cowrie]

Mostly I just agree with what a lot of the above people said, but I want to point out that it's not just the big preference things where you get annoying comments like this, even. Once someone asked if my character had grown after digesting someone. This was an acceptable and understandable question, because the post digestion image was closer-up, and there wasn't anything to provide scale. What's not acceptable is them calling my work 'boring' when I explained no, my character had not grown. I'll admit that I may not have responded to that comment very politely, but it stung. No one is obligated to make stuff appealing to all, or even any, of your preferences. Am I sometimes disappointed to find something that would be exactly what I'm looking for if it weren't for one detail? Of course, I'm sure everyone is. But, for the love of all that is holy, don't gripe about that detail to the creator. Everyone's entitled to like what they like, and if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.

[Artemis]

I think if more people were on the look-out for these types of responses and attitudes and less tolerant of it, there would be a lot less of it. But with the largely blind-eye that tends to be turned toward it, people are going to continue to think that entitlement toward artists and creators is okay and acceptable.

I'm going leave this quote here. While I don't like getting comments from people who are a slightly less than supportive anymore than the next person, I also don't want to see dumb comments become a socially acceptable excuse to be a jerk to people. And that is the impression I get when I see someone directly advocating intolerance and call out culture. That is not the path to a more united, friendlier community.

[nyte]

While I 1000% agree with the original subject matter of the post, that being that many comments have the subtext of "can you please make art for me" instead of actual critiques, I have to comment on the other major subject that was brought up, that vore is a "death fetish."

This is fairly simple. We're all rational, adult human beings here. Enjoying a facet of vore that involves death is not any better or worse than enjoying a facet of vore that does not involve death. It doesn't make you dangerous. It doesn't make you crazy. It doesn't make you dangerous in the same way that enjoying a movie or a video game or a book that depicts death doesn't make you dangerous. Nor does it make the artist who created that piece of art (movie, game, book, etc.) dangerous. For the simple fact that we can distinguish fantasy from reality.

I say this with as much conviction as I can:

Artists who draw death in their vore art DO NOT want to witness people dying in real life.
Artists who draw death in their vore art DO NOT want anyone to actually get hurt.

99.9% of artists that depict death can distinguish fantasy from reality, and it is therefore harmless. The only reason fatal vore gets a bad rep as opposed to the glut of video game/movie/tv show violence that is churned out year after year is because people here are sexually aroused by it as opposed to just thinking it's "cool to watch."

People who play Grand Theft Auto are no more likely to go around murdering real people as vore artists who draw digestion are wanting to feed real people to animals.

And to drive my point home even further, I, as an artist that draws fatal vore, never draw real people. Because I don't have their consent, and it blurs that line between fantasy and reality. I only ever draw fictional characters.

So I *hope* that people will start to understand that violence and death in vore is no different or harmful than the fantastical depiction of violence and death in any other type of situation or medium, and we can let it rest.

*steps off soapbox*

[Cowrie]

While I 1000% agree with the original subject matter of the post, that being that many comments have the subtext of "can you please make art for me" instead of actual critiques, I have to comment on the other major subject that was brought up, that vore is a "death fetish."

This is fairly simple. We're all rational, adult human beings here. Enjoying a facet of vore that involves death is not any better or worse than enjoying a facet of vore that does not involve death. It doesn't make you dangerous. It doesn't make you crazy. It doesn't make you dangerous in the same way that enjoying a movie or a video game or a book that depicts death doesn't make you dangerous. Nor does it make the artist who created that piece of art (movie, game, book, etc.) dangerous. For the simple fact that we can distinguish fantasy from reality.

I say this with as much conviction as I can:

Artists who draw death in their vore art DO NOT want to witness people dying in real life.
Artists who draw death in their vore art DO NOT want anyone to actually get hurt.

99.9% of artists that depict death can distinguish fantasy from reality, and it is therefore harmless. The only reason fatal vore gets a bad rep as opposed to the glut of video game/movie/tv show violence that is churned out year after year is because people here are sexually aroused by it as opposed to just thinking it's "cool to watch."

People who play Grand Theft Auto are no more likely to go around murdering real people as vore artists who draw digestion are wanting to feed real people to animals.

And to drive my point home even further, I, as an artist that draws fatal vore, never draw real people. Because I don't have their consent, and it blurs that line between fantasy and reality. I only ever draw fictional characters.

So I *hope* that people will start to understand that violence and death in vore is no different or harmful than the fantastical depiction of violence and death in any other type of situation or medium, and we can let it rest.

*steps off soapbox*

Because this deserves to be posted twice.

[Siorche]

These are all a bunch of valid points highlighting a lot of problems, though also as Dodoman said, there's a big, big case of this not being that suffers from it. On DeviantArt we have dedicated 'fetish artist' haters and 'trolls' and the like, there's even some guy who rips of idubbzz's content cop stuff but with fetish porn and makes fun of the artist in journals and nothing is done about it.

Besides THAT, do remember that there is a way to block comments on your profile for specific people. And don't forget on top of that that people breaking the rules/being rude/spamming should be reported to the global mod list.

Awareness is good and all, but some people don't care and will continue to do what they want regardless, so it's good to just blackball them and/or report them if they step out of line. We have a benefit in a way of a smaller community which means its somewhat easier to police and report.

[Humbug]

If you absolutely have to voice your preferences on a piece that doesn't include them, the best way might be in the form of a question, paired with a compliment:
"This is great! Do you do F/M too?"
"How do you feel about AV? I'd love to see how you pull that off if you're cool with it."

That kinda stuff. But you also have to be understanding if the answer is not one you were hoping for. If the artist answers "No" or "I'm not really into X," then just say "Ah dang. Well, keep up the good work regardless!" and move on or something. Don't be a dick. Kind of the golden rule for most discussion, honestly.

But yeah. I've grown so weary of people assuming I'd kill someone IRL given the chance just because I like fatal vore. This is not something that just happens now and then. I've managed to weed out most of the people who'd make those kinds of comments by either not responding or being extremely blunt or sarcastic with them, but I still get this kind of thing from time to time and I'm tired of it. Though I have no desire to leave myself, I can see why others might come to that conclusion, and it's a damn shame. More creativity is always appreciated and needed, even if it's not to my tastes, and to see people cease creating because people lack a filter on their thoughts is frustrating to say the least.

Oh, and from a personal perspective? Stop asking me if the prey is going to be okay. If you knew anything about me, you'd already know the answer. And if you're legitimately worried about it, use your imagination and pretend they got out safely. No skin off my nose. I know this kinda goes against my "Ask a question" suggestion, but asking the question and receiving an answer is taking away the ambiguity afforded by the art for not only other people, but yourself as well. It removes options when the artist gives a definitive answer, which makes the piece less universally enjoyable. If the artist didn't include explicit digestion/freedom, maybe they intended not to. That's why I've grown to make things more explicit than I used to: I'm just tired of people asking. So even in this case, I've let these kinds of comments dictate my behavior. It's a common problem.

[TheVoreEngineer]

These are all a bunch of valid points highlighting a lot of problems, though also as Dodoman said, there's a big, big case of this not being that suffers from it. On DeviantArt we have dedicated 'fetish artist' haters and 'trolls' and the like, there's even some guy who rips of idubbzz's content cop stuff but with fetish porn and makes fun of the artist in journals and nothing is done about it.

Besides THAT, do remember that there is a way to block comments on your profile for specific people. And don't forget on top of that that people breaking the rules/being rude/spamming should be reported to the global mod list.

Awareness is good and all, but some people don't care and will continue to do what they want regardless, so it's good to just blackball them and/or report them if they step out of line. We have a benefit in a way of a smaller community which means its somewhat easier to police and report.

I mean I'm not going to deny that in the grandest scheme of things, there is much worse, but because a bigger issue is out there, I don't feel it invalidates the smaller issue at all. This is still happening. It might affect a tiny portion of the community only, but this is still affecting people. Even if it's some twisted self-frustration that brought this whole thread into existence in the first place, I still feel it's something to bring up, because it is ultimately making the experience of creating vore works for some creators down.

I do remember that comments can be blocked, probably because I added a link to your tutorial on how to make a curated comments section (Was real good btw). But I still feel it's a solution that shouldn't need to be taken, because as said, it's only a small portion of the community that do this, so by making whitelisted comments, you are locking out many more people who want to leave legitimate support for creators, rather than people who are going to use comments negatively.

Besides, I mean you're right. People will always do this. I can make the most heartfelt speech and some people will never change their ways. But I've seen many an occasion where people just haven't considered what they're implicated with what they say. Besides, even if this can change the behaviour of a single person, it's a success to some extent. But yeah, entirely agree if you are being harassed about this stuff, reporting the individual to the mods, is probably the right thing to do.

To everyone else who has posted, I don't really have much to add to your posts, but thank you to contributing to the discussion.

[Siorche]

Oh I didn't say it invalidated the smaller issue, that's not what I was trying to say at all. It's an unfortunate reality that some people will just want to be rude to eachother, but I really hope we can work together as a community to make it all a better place. Also, Sorry I missed that, I just kinda have a knee-jerk reaction to stuff in a way. I've heard a lot of people condemn Eka's for being a 'cesspool' when it's really not, There's a wonderful community here and I'm very proud to say I've met a majority of my friends here, so it's really important to me-an I really want people to be happy in this community and comfortable.