Questions you cannot ask?

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Re: Questions you cannot ask?

Postby klonoa723 » Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:54 pm

Is because now there are like 60.000 or something genders, so, well, it ain't an easy question to answer.
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Re: Questions you cannot ask?

Postby C107galaxytachyon » Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:04 pm

...
Last edited by C107galaxytachyon on Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Questions you cannot ask?

Postby MotherOfMonsters » Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:38 pm

soline wrote: I do find myself wondering if this question is less targeted at 'ambiguous tentacle monster with no clear gender that I want to know if it's a female or male monster' and more aimed at trans/traps/femboys/androgynous/otherwise-deliberately-'non-stereotypically-gendered' artwork that doesn't present specifically one way or the other


To be fair, this is true as well, but I was under the impression the original question was around things like internals, where the predator isn't fully visible. That might just be me though.
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Re: Questions you cannot ask?

Postby Kitsouille » Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:34 pm

I didn't know this was an issue with art but I'm puzzled by the whole issue (I usually see it with mouth/vore videos where the camera is inside the mouth and you don't see the person's face). As others have stated, if you can't tell the gender because it was meant to be ambiguous, then why is it an issue in the first place? Maybe it's important to those people and that should be respected, but I just don't get it. It's ambiguous, you can choose. It's not a trap. It's a female if you want the pred to be female. She won't suddenly reveal he was actually a guy once you're done masturbating.
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Re: Questions you cannot ask?

Postby ShadesofBlack » Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:27 pm

soline wrote:Moving beyond you personally, since this seems as a topic to be a lot less 'questions you cannot ask' and more 'asking about gender is touchy' I have to fall back on saying it seems a weirdly specific problem and I imagine that's the reason you're not getting totally chummy answers. If the gender is ambiguous then either it's supposed to be, or it's not supposed to be and the artist wasn't clear enough, or it's really just not important in the artist's eye and picture's design. In all three cases asking isn't a positive experience for reasons ranging from implying the artist sucks to trying to force them to answer an unanswerable question.

I do wonder why it's important at all to be honest. I appreciate preferences and sexual tastes and fully get, for example, if you just don't find male predators attractive. However knowing the gender doesn't really affect that beyond your own subjective sense of sexual narrative. If the predator is blatantly a guy and you don't like that. Cool. If the predator is blatantly a girl and you do. Cool. If the predator could be either and you like or don't like that. Also cool. But if it could be either and you do like it, but are so put off the concept of liking it if it turns out to be a male that you're driven to get a definite answer from the artist (effectively making them decide if you like or don't like something.) then I think that's on you, and probably not a very healthy mindset.

Also a bit of total speculation. Given the context and CrimsonFang's little rant above I do find myself wondering if this question is less targeted at 'ambiguous tentacle monster with no clear gender that I want to know if it's a female or male monster' and more aimed at trans/traps/femboys/androgynous/otherwise-deliberately-'non-stereotypically-gendered' artwork that doesn't present specifically one way or the other; in which case would quite rightly prompt a hostile response since it will always read pretty clearly as an attempt to passively-aggressively dismiss those kinds of characters.


THIS. Thank you for nailing this answer, Soline.

As a transgender woman, with a lot of gender-queer, gender non-conformant, agender and non-binary friends, we get asked this question in a weaponized manner intended to undermine us so much that, especially in a text only forum, it can be hard to tell if someone just asks the question. I'm pretty sure that for some artists, whether they are "out of the closet" here or not, drawing gender-queer or gender ambiguous characters may also represent part of themselves or their friends who are gender-ambiguous to a lot of the hetero-normative world, and just like how those folks are tired of constantly being asked "what's ur gender" or "what's in your pants" to be allowed to even exist in a space, it might upset them seeing their characters get the same treatment. Sometimes we just want to be able to be us, and let folks be attracted to us or not based on their perceptions and sexuality, without having to have us self-define (and sometimes then disagree with us on our own identity) to validate their understanding of their own sexuality for them.

I'm personally pretty binary, so I can only speak for more non-binary folks in as much as I know from friends. But for me, I still get a lot of people who are confused because they perceive me in some ways as female (accurate to who I am) and in some ways they either perceive me or think they should perceive me as masculine (probably because they are taking 6th grade simplified biology is the be all of biology and identity.) And it's fine for them to be confused, as long as they don't then blame that confusion on my existing without a label that satisfies their confusion taped onto my forehead. But mostly, if someone just comes to me with "wait, what's your gender...?" the odds are pretty high I'm about to be harassed.

So no, it's not a question you "can't ask." But it might be one you should think twice on, and if you MUST ask, do so considerately and open-mindedly please.
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Re: Questions you cannot ask?

Postby YouCanFreshMyFresh » Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:05 am

I think an underlying cause for artists' frustration comes from the perception that the asker wants a singular interpretation for a work that is meant to be ambiguous. If the identity of a pred or prey is not shown, it is often because the artist either does not know who the other party is, or because the artist wants that party's identity to be whatever the viewer fills in on their own.

This is not an unusual or immature response. Within literary criticism, there is a concept known as "the death of the author", which holds that authorial intent should not inform how one reads a piece of art. For instance, it should not matter what Joseph Conrad intended readers to take away from Heart of Darkness, what matters is the reader's understanding of the work and their ability to cite textual material to back up their interpretation.

In asking an artist to provide a single, unambiguous reading of a work that was deliberately made to be ambiguous, the commenter effectively asks the artist to give up agency over their work. If the artist were to provide such a concrete answer, it would effectively signal to every other viewer that their interpretions of the work are incorrect, and that the true meaning of the piece can be found in a single post in the comments section. It is not that the artist is selfishly withholding the "real" content of their art, it's that the artist is preserving everyone else's right to interpret the art however they want.

In short, if you ask an artist to give a definite answer about their work, be prepared to be told "it's up to your interpretation" or "I don't really know." Sometimes art is ambiguous on purpose, and that's the artist's choice. If you're going to say that answer "just won’t cut it" as someone here has, you need to take a step back and reexamine the amount of ownership you're trying to take of someone else's art.
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Re: Questions you cannot ask?

Postby MarinLaFey » Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:41 am

Here is basically my take on really a lot of porn.

I do not have to upload here. Most of my fantasies are my own. I have literally masturbated to my ideas. If you need something to appeal to you, commission it or make it yourself.

Trying to porn police is honestly ridiculous.
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Re: Questions you cannot ask?

Postby 157and493 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:51 am

soline wrote:This seems like a weirdly specific thing to need to ask consistently enough to get such a range of responses you start to feel it's a touchy subject. I'm a pretty prolific lurker and can't say I come across too much content that's so ambiguous I have absolutely no idea which gender a character is.

So with that in mind I guess my question is what exactly are you asking, and what's the context of asking it? A lot of your example responses seem particularly stand-offish or hostile, but there are also a few that I thoroughly resonate with 'It's supposed to be ambiguous' for example. I get the occasional questions about my art which trend along the lines of 'so what happens next/is this fatal?' and my responses are usually it's up to the viewer. I feel like to give a response like that, they would have to be phrased in a way that seriously made me feel like "Because otherwise this is shit and I hate fatal stuff" is the unspoken end to their question.


Moving beyond you personally, since this seems as a topic to be a lot less 'questions you cannot ask' and more 'asking about gender is touchy' I have to fall back on saying it seems a weirdly specific problem and I imagine that's the reason you're not getting totally chummy answers. If the gender is ambiguous then either it's supposed to be, or it's not supposed to be and the artist wasn't clear enough, or it's really just not important in the artist's eye and picture's design. In all three cases asking isn't a positive experience for reasons ranging from implying the artist sucks to trying to force them to answer an unanswerable question.

I do wonder why it's important at all to be honest. I appreciate preferences and sexual tastes and fully get, for example, if you just don't find male predators attractive. However knowing the gender doesn't really affect that beyond your own subjective sense of sexual narrative. If the predator is blatantly a guy and you don't like that. Cool. If the predator is blatantly a girl and you do. Cool. If the predator could be either and you like or don't like that. Also cool. But if it could be either and you do like it, but are so put off the concept of liking it if it turns out to be a male that you're driven to get a definite answer from the artist (effectively making them decide if you like or don't like something.) then I think that's on you, and probably not a very healthy mindset.

Also a bit of total speculation. Given the context and CrimsonFang's little rant above I do find myself wondering if this question is less targeted at 'ambiguous tentacle monster with no clear gender that I want to know if it's a female or male monster' and more aimed at trans/traps/femboys/androgynous/otherwise-deliberately-'non-stereotypically-gendered' artwork that doesn't present specifically one way or the other; in which case would quite rightly prompt a hostile response since it will always read pretty clearly as an attempt to passively-aggressively dismiss those kinds of characters.


Thank you for being so thorough in your response, I will try to answer the questions you have here.

1] You are right vore art with predators who’s gender is ambiguous are not that common, however I was just referring to the somewhat rare instances where I do happen to come upon it. I use to ask this question a lot more often in the past but I stopped doing it because I was asking it on almost EVERY picture with an ambiguous predator and I could tell people were getting annoyed with me.

2] Honestly, the response I get when normally asking this question is just a flat out answer of “It is male,” or “It is female,” for this particular post I was referring to the rare instances where that is not the case and I get a less direct answer... I probably should have been more clear about that, almost all of the responses I get to this question are not hostile, it is just that this is the only type of question I ask where I have gotten the occasional hostile response now and then.

3] I should admit that most of the vore art I ask this question on was clearly drawn with the artist not caring about the gender of the predator, and I even suspect that most of the time I ask this question the artist just says the predator is the gender they think I would like. Looking at it this way I suppose it would make sense for them to get a little upset when I ask about gender regarding a picture where clearly the gender of the predator is not the main focus.

4] This may be a little awkward but I need to say that I (like many people here) enjoy vore sexually. And this is typically my perspective when it comes to seeing a predator with an ambiguous gender: My reaction is NOT “This picture is arousing to me despite not knowing the gender of the predator, but I would never be able to forgive myself for liking it if the predator turns out to me male.” My reaction IS: “This picture is not arousing to me at all because I do not know the gender of the predator, but if the predator turns out to be female then I might be able to enjoy it after all.” I am attracted only to females, not just the female form alone, in order for me to be attracted to something I have to KNOW for sure it is female. Maybe you are right and maybe that is not a healthy mindset, but it is just the way I am now.

5] This question was more regarding vore art where the predator is an animal with no obvious sexually dimorphic traits so it cannot be determined what sex they are by appearance alone, or where only the predator’s mouth is seen so it is impossible to determine their gender. I have noticed that normally when people draw trans/traps/femboys/androgynous/otherwise-deliberately-'non-stereotypically-gendered' characters they tend to label them as such so it is easy to tell.

I hope I was able to answer your questions properly.
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Re: Questions you cannot ask?

Postby 157and493 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:56 am

again__again wrote:i would be curious, as a counter question, if the pred's gender is so ambiguous that you feel the urge to ask, why not just imagine it as whatever gender you prefer it to be? once you ask, you open yourself up to getting an answer you dont want, so why not let the ambiguity benefit you?


Honestly that would be an ideal situation, unfortunately my mind does not work like that for some reason. If I am unsure of a predator’s gender then I CANNOT even enjoy the picture in the first place, and even if I try to imagine the gender for myself it does not work. I cannot begin enjoying something until I get confirmation, my mind just will not let me.
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Re: Questions you cannot ask?

Postby sweetladyamy » Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:15 am

MarinLaFey wrote:...I have literally masturbated to my ideas.


Same here. Totally relatable.

157and493 wrote:...I cannot begin enjoying something until I get confirmation; my mind just will not let me.


That right there is not, in any way, shape or form, abnormal. A lot of people actually have a logic conundrum that is often linked to hereditary predisposition. There are a number of causes and environmental factors, but it does tend to happen to people that have ancestry involved in mechanical type careers (machinists, programmers, accountants, anything that requires some repetitive thinking as well as repetitive learning and execution). Of course, it is something that can be 'un-learned', but not easily, and would be beyond the scope of this topic.

tl;dr You're not the only one like this. I am myself, to a point. If I can't make sense of some things, then I can't really get into them. Said issue applies to several things, though not really this one.
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Re: Questions you cannot ask?

Postby Birichino » Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:11 pm

Kitsouille wrote:I didn't know this was an issue with art but I'm puzzled by the whole issue (I usually see it with mouth/vore videos where the camera is inside the mouth and you don't see the person's face). As others have stated, if you can't tell the gender because it was meant to be ambiguous, then why is it an issue in the first place? Maybe it's important to those people and that should be respected, but I just don't get it. It's ambiguous, you can choose. It's not a trap. It's a female if you want the pred to be female. She won't suddenly reveal he was actually a guy once you're done masturbating.


That mindset is totally alien to me. I can't pinpoint exactly why ambiguity can't equal comfort for me, and I think it's actually a pretty strong mesh of reasons, but what seems easiest to communicate is the idea that "there is only one truth." It may not translate to artist intention perfectly, but real life is objective, and the idea of being misled is kind of disturbing.
I would also say that, to my sense of these things at least, no "any" category exists, but an "all" category some people can filter. Ambiguous preds may be something, but they can't not be something, just to describe the feeling.
Finally, I suppose a lack of information, let alone trying to replace it with conjecture, is just uncomfortable.
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Re: Questions you cannot ask?

Postby SamWamm » Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:34 pm

well, if the tags say "ambiguous gender pred" or words to that effect then you shouldn't be asking what the gender is meant to be because it's intentionally ambiguous. if that's not in the tags then I don't see why people should be so defensive about people asking what gender they are. as far as the viewer knows the creator simply forgot to mention it rather than deliberately leaving it blank. if you don't want people to ask the gender then put "ambiguous gender pred" in the tags I say.
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Re: Questions you cannot ask?

Postby kiamara » Sat Sep 14, 2019 3:17 am

Hmm, this seems to make sense.. Almost all the male pred stories are gone. Being female, personally I like the fantasy of a man or male over powering a female stand in formyself in a story. I was wondering why all the stories suddenly have started feeling PG 13.
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Re: Questions you cannot ask?

Postby Trollfacegesicht » Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:03 pm

I personally don't care about genders. Sex and sexual themes are a no-no for me in vore and I am mostly into feral reptile preds, so genders aren't really relevant here. Guess I'm lucky.


I feel Cranberry is pretty close with this. In my experience drawing for this community, predator gender can be a cause of friction, and I have--on rare occasion--gotten rude comments based on drawing or not drawing a certain gender.
So if someone asked me the gender of an ambiguous predator, I'd assume they're asking because they care about the gender. And if they care about gender enough to ask, they may have preferences strong enough to become angry or aggressive if I give a 'wrong answer.'
Being given a pop-quiz with those stakes could make me defensive; even if the person asking is probably very reasonable, there's a potential threat which I've been bitten by before.

Well, it's your work and you don't owe anyone anything. People need to be more greatful that so many people are creating more and more content for free. If somebody thinks it "is ruined" because they don't like the gender of your pred than its their problem and not yours. If they are becoming aggressive, fuck them there is more than enough art for everybody to enjoy and they can always create their own stuff. So don't worry about giving somebody a "wrong answer" (Payed commissions are an exception ofc).

Like I don't go into the comment section of stuff I don't like and say "Why do they have sex before the vore, this shit is RUINED now!!!"


The way I view it... gender is a touchy subject these days simply because of the LGBTQ-whatever the hell the acronym is anymore. I've seen so many changes to that damned acronym I don't care anymore. I'm accepting of people who have changed genders or identify as the opposite gender, but seriously? There are Four. Lesbian, Gay, Bi, or Trans. I don't know what Q stands for (I'm sure I asked somewhere and someone told me but it was TO ME a stupid thing so I spaced it out). Seriously, there are only two genders. Trans isn't a third gender, it's short for TRANSITION, which means going from one gender to another. If you're Lesbian, you're a girl attracted to girls. If you're gay, you're a guy attracted to guys. If you're Bi, you're attracted to both genders. I don't know what Q means, but if you're not attracted to any genders, it's not some special word. Just means you're Asexual. Not... whatever the word is.

I can feel myself getting angrier the more about this I write, so I'll close with this. Gender is a touchy subject because so many people have started viewing gender as fluid and not a simple factor of life and reality of which you are. You are either a guy attracted a guys, a girl attracted to girls, a person attracted to both, or a person attracted to none. If you're trans, you're going from one gender to another for some reason or another. It doesn't make you a different sexuality. Trans folks could be gay guys who want to be girls or lesbian girls who want to be guys. In closing... gender is too touchy a subject to continue on, much like politics, so any conversations about it should be kept short and sweet.


100% agree
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Re: Questions you cannot ask?

Postby C107galaxytachyon » Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:22 pm

C107galaxytachyon wrote: Well, what if the creator in question went apeshit at the mere notion of asking them such a thing, to the point where they outright block you without actually providing a clear answer?
That happened in my case, and it really made it that much harder for me to just let it go and move on (which I would've if he just said no and left it at that.)

If you need a better reference as to what I mean by this, look no further then here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6mHkx0oJUE&t=48s (0:48)


Is nobody gonna bother addressing this at all?
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Re: Questions you cannot ask?

Postby sweetladyamy » Sun Sep 15, 2019 3:29 am

Q means Queer. Yeah, that's me, since I'm not male or female, and the gender binary is unarguably 100% bullshit.

I am a femme, and that's all there is to it. Case closed.
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Re: Questions you cannot ask?

Postby iWasFrozenToday » Sun Sep 15, 2019 10:36 am

sweetladyamy wrote:Q means Queer. Yeah, that's me, since I'm not male or female, and the gender binary is unarguably 100% bullbull.

I am a femme, and that's all there is to it. Case closed.

Huh, I thought the Q meant Questioning...
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Re: Questions you cannot ask?

Postby Ghrelin » Sun Sep 15, 2019 1:50 pm

iWasFrozenToday wrote:Huh, I thought the Q meant Questioning...

it's been used for both, individually or as two in one.
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Re: Questions you cannot ask?

Postby sweetladyamy » Sun Sep 15, 2019 5:25 pm

iWasFrozenToday wrote:
Erastus wrote:Good points


While true, the point is that too many are dependent upon the 'gender binary' when it is nothing more, and never has been anything more than a concept, never proven, never given the full study it should of been, because the Church and the State wanted to have it their way.

They got their way. Look at failed society now; no wonder so many of us have perversions like this, that make everything else feel empty.
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Re: Questions you cannot ask?

Postby SamWamm » Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:33 am

whatever pronoun people like i'll use.

if they want to be called "your conflagerest" or whatever I'm down for that.
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