Vore-friendly worldbuilding

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Vore-friendly worldbuilding

Postby Redicicle » Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:45 pm

I was thinking about how to write worlds where vore is commonplace, or even socially acceptable without the world seeming unnecessarily carefree and wildly irrational. The problem with Humans as prey, besides the moral problem, is that humans are so damn expensive and a diet of non-obese college students has some absurdly low caloric efficiency. 11 million kcals in for like 160000 kcals out if we're talking girls as prey, and even more cals in and less cals out for boys (no/minimal internal fat reserve really makes a pretty noticeable difference and at least compensates for larger size and more upper body muscle).
Plus the time for parents to actually raise those kids to adulthood which could have been time spent finding/producing food that has more than 1% caloric efficiency. Plus eating people while they are raising kids produces orphans while eating them before they have kids produces an upside down population pyramid.

Yeah. Needless to say fatal vore with digestion is an incredibly expensive toll on a human society any way you measure, and that's not really dependent on whether the prey is willing or unwilling. Mass autoerotic suicide-by-stomach is basically as socially inefficient as having a million serial killer preds going around eating a person ever couple months with nothing to keep them in check. It seems like without changing some variables here, it would be limited to something like war, capital punishment, euthanasia, perhaps very important religious ceremonies, extreme decadence on the part of the most elite members of society, or desparation/generosity during famine.

So I guess the question is, what variables can we change in a setting to rationalize having very frequent vore without the characters having to be completely irrational?
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Re: Vore-friendly worldbuilding

Postby Soulex23 » Sat Feb 20, 2021 1:26 am

Breeding and/or growth rates can be changed, especially given a fantasy context. If you wanted to, you could also intermingle other races with faster/slower growth rates to spice up the generic human gene pool, causing even more population skewing.

And a separate but useful writing tip: get an idea how hard or soft you want your world.

Hard World: Explain how it operates in detail, using the mechanics of the world to drive the plot forward and help with problems characters face (not exclusive to hard worlds, but it fits more closely with them and doesn't feel as out-of-place when done correctly). Think Star Trek and other big sci-fi franchises, though Star Wars is the softest major sci-fi world on this spectrum, from what I know. Here, the worlds themselves are usually the focus over the characters, and the plot reflects this more often than not.

Soft World: You can have anything you want, since the characters themselves are the focus. Don't let the world get in the way of their struggles or be the tool to solve it, let the characters themselves be the source of plot progression and problem solving. The world in this case is used as a vessel and backdrop for the characters' stories, and used to evoke emotions in the readers/watchers. Studio Ghibli is among the best example with many of its movies, as well as Avatar The Last Airbender for the most part (if we ignore Korra for this example)

What Both Must Have: Internal consistency. In hard worlds, it's tempting to write a whole lexicon for your readers to understand the world. After all, half the fun of the world is building it, of course. But you MUST make sure that it all follows the same logic at a core level. You DON'T want details overlapping or conflicting, which can get hard to manage in a hard world. The strengths of a hard world is that it can last longer, hold multiple stories within it, and can be explored in vastly different ways, often with different perspectives. Its shortcomings are in the times when you have to pause the plot to introduce/explain a new element to the readers, which can cause many to move away from it if you're not careful. It also goes without saying that you'll have to think a LOT about how the world works for it to stay running smooth.
Soft worlds, however, don't always tell the reader the hows or whys of its systems, since ultimately they're largely irrelevant in how the characters function. At the same time though, readers will NOT miss it if something conflicts with another in your world, so you must keep an internal logic, even if only to yourself. If you're eager to share a detail with your readers in a soft world, you have to ask yourself if it's useful for the plot or not if the reader knows it. If not, then it's not necessary to share.
Soft worlds can let good characters bloom into iconic ones, show readers scenes that they could never have imagined, and bring out the exact emotions you want. The downsides come in the heightened awareness of cheap writing techniques (Ex-Machinas, MacGuffins, etc.), especially if you don't let the characters solve their own problems in their own ways by giving them external solutions.

Ultimately, you'll want to blend together the good things of both, while avoiding their weaknesses, if you're aiming for a medium world. You're allowed to lean whichever direction you want, but as with many things in life, it's all a spectrum of possibility.
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Re: Vore-friendly worldbuilding

Postby Redicicle » Sat Feb 20, 2021 1:45 am

One thing I thought of would be something like an early colony on another planet where the people have been bioengineered for rapid population growth and to match the planets' exotic biochemistry. Truthfully the people would be biochemically alien copies of humans. Except, you could easily make them not be.

Perhaps bioengineer pregnancies to always produce adults, and make it so there is technology where existing knowledge can be learned at a much faster rate by neural interface. Say, a week or two in some neural interface machine to get to a post-highschool level of general knowledge, cultural learning, social skills, etc. You could also cut the pregnancy term down from 9 months to something shorter although keep in mind that growth takes calories even inside a womb. Minimum the amount that it's worth afterwards. Making a newborn adult in a month with a normal amount of muscle and for example would cost something like 5000 kcals a day above normal, so unless people are born and give birth looking like famine victims, or getting huge amounts of energy to feed the pendency is easy, pregnancies are gonna need to take at least a few months to not become energetically unreasonable.

This also gives you the benefit that it automatically rationalizes unbirth in the setting. If it comes out it can go back in right? Especially since everyone is bioengineered and doesn't have a normal human skeletal structure anyway.

As for rationalizing why vore would be commonplace, perhaps outside the environment of the stomach, dead meat with this biochemistry rapidly oxidizes on contact with the atmosphere? Once blood stops flowing, whatever chemical that prevents meat from undergoing rapid oxidation is quickly used up and the energy of the body is released, perhaps quite spectacularly.

This setting fixes several problems at once. It means human anatomy needs to account for eating things whole, it makes agriculture quite difficult as perhaps plants will do the same thing and so they could only be stored dead under inert atmosphere or being trickle fed whatever compound stabilizes plant matter from oxidation, which means people would need to rely on technologically advanced forms of hunting and gathering, and mostly eating it where you find it, this is not the most easy food source ever conceived and therefore the incentive to eat someone, who doesn't really cost that much to replace, is much less societally disruptive, and everyone would definitely have the anatomy for oral vore and all women the anatomy for unbirth. It also means practically every wild predator and many things that are technically herbivores have very good reasons to be capable of swallowing a human whole and digesting them, and to do so without pre-killing them.

Another advantage is that if reproduction is very common and potential lifespans are still normal, or perhaps infinite given the advanced technology and alien biochemistry, the number of people being born all the time should quite easily lead to overpopulation unless there are large reductions in births or large sources of early deaths. One easy source is predation by wild creatures or other colonists, and this is not that wildly inefficient since most of the calories are recycled and knowledge can be relatively cheaply copied.
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Re: Vore-friendly worldbuilding

Postby Redicicle » Sat Feb 20, 2021 1:56 am

Soulex23 wrote:Breeding and/or growth rates can be changed, especially given a fantasy context. If you wanted to, you could also intermingle other races with faster/slower growth rates to spice up the generic human gene pool, causing even more population skewing.

And a separate but useful writing tip: get an idea how hard or soft you want your world.

Hard World: Explain how it operates in detail, using the mechanics of the world to drive the plot forward and help with problems characters face (not exclusive to hard worlds, but it fits more closely with them and doesn't feel as out-of-place when done correctly). Think Star Trek and other big sci-fi franchises, though Star Wars is the softest major sci-fi world on this spectrum, from what I know. Here, the worlds themselves are usually the focus over the characters, and the plot reflects this more often than not.

Soft World: You can have anything you want, since the characters themselves are the focus. Don't let the world get in the way of their struggles or be the tool to solve it, let the characters themselves be the source of plot progression and problem solving. The world in this case is used as a vessel and backdrop for the characters' stories, and used to evoke emotions in the readers/watchers. Studio Ghibli is among the best example with many of its movies, as well as Avatar The Last Airbender for the most part (if we ignore Korra for this example)

What Both Must Have: Internal consistency. In hard worlds, it's tempting to write a whole lexicon for your readers to understand the world. After all, half the fun of the world is building it, of course. But you MUST make sure that it all follows the same logic at a core level. You DON'T want details overlapping or conflicting, which can get hard to manage in a hard world. The strengths of a hard world is that it can last longer, hold multiple stories within it, and can be explored in vastly different ways, often with different perspectives. Its shortcomings are in the times when you have to pause the plot to introduce/explain a new element to the readers, which can cause many to move away from it if you're not careful. It also goes without saying that you'll have to think a LOT about how the world works for it to stay running smooth.
Soft worlds, however, don't always tell the reader the hows or whys of its systems, since ultimately they're largely irrelevant in how the characters function. At the same time though, readers will NOT miss it if something conflicts with another in your world, so you must keep an internal logic, even if only to yourself. If you're eager to share a detail with your readers in a soft world, you have to ask yourself if it's useful for the plot or not if the reader knows it. If not, then it's not necessary to share.
Soft worlds can let good characters bloom into iconic ones, show readers scenes that they could never have imagined, and bring out the exact emotions you want. The downsides come in the heightened awareness of cheap writing techniques (Ex-Machinas, MacGuffins, etc.), especially if you don't let the characters solve their own problems in their own ways by giving them external solutions.

Ultimately, you'll want to blend together the good things of both, while avoiding their weaknesses, if you're aiming for a medium world. You're allowed to lean whichever direction you want, but as with many things in life, it's all a spectrum of possibility.


Yeah I was thinking more on the hard world side of things. The kind of thing where "that doesn't look like it would've evolved on this planet" or "those vacuum radiators are too small" or "interstellar craft cannot go faster than light and even coming close is damn difficult" are all valid concerns. I want to be constrained by the laws of thermodynamics, evolution, biomechanics, etc. And not by using Clarke tech to bypass them with wormholes and gravity manipulation and time travel. Any Phlebotinum needs to be magic A is magic A. I'm not saying I want giant exposition dumps of "she pulled out her Q-switched pulseblaster here let me explain for 20 pages the intricate details of how laser technology evolved over the last two centuries and why is going to break the window but not the internal lens after being fired when covered in digestive slime, and by the way here's how optical glass... etc" but at the very least I would prefer a setting where if I*did* explain all those details it would make sense.
Last edited by Redicicle on Sat Feb 20, 2021 2:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vore-friendly worldbuilding

Postby jaggedjagd » Sat Feb 20, 2021 2:05 am

Soulex23 wrote:Hard World: Explain how it operates in detail, using the mechanics of the world to drive the plot forward and help with problems characters face (not exclusive to hard worlds, but it fits more closely with them and doesn't feel as out-of-place when done correctly). Think Star Trek and other big sci-fi franchises, though Star Wars is the softest major sci-fi world on this spectrum, from what I know. Here, the worlds themselves are usually the focus over the characters, and the plot reflects this more often than not.

I find it's much easier to justify a fatal vore society when there's a strong societal hierarchy, either a caste system or outright slavery. When you have dedicated pred & prey classes, being eaten at a pred's whim would simply be the grim normality of these people. Oppression and discrimination can work in a vore context as well as in any dystopian setting. The prey caste gets told "You're just prey, you're only purpose is to get eaten" all their life, it's believable that those people will accept their fate.

Soulex23 wrote:Soft World: You can have anything you want, since the characters themselves are the focus. Don't let the world get in the way of their struggles or be the tool to solve it, let the characters themselves be the source of plot progression and problem solving. The world in this case is used as a vessel and backdrop for the characters' stories, and used to evoke emotions in the readers/watchers.


Well... not that I'm trying to shamelessly promote it or anything, but I made a roughly 300 page long comic about this exact thing.

https://aryion.com/g4/view/619918

It stars a society of tiny anthro people forced on the far end of the prey spectrum due to their size, they're quite used to getting eaten by larger animals. Over time the story develops to the point where safe vore is systematically integrated into their society, by the end people are eating each other just for fun. While the vore is pretty frequent I put a heavy focus on character development and world-building, trying to strike a balance of lewds & feels to not bore the audience with too much of either.
Hey you! I draw many cute, weird & sexy comics. Check it out.
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Re: Vore-friendly worldbuilding

Postby Redicicle » Sat Feb 20, 2021 2:32 am

jaggedjagd wrote:
Soulex23 wrote:Hard World: Explain how it operates in detail, using the mechanics of the world to drive the plot forward and help with problems characters face (not exclusive to hard worlds, but it fits more closely with them and doesn't feel as out-of-place when done correctly). Think Star Trek and other big sci-fi franchises, though Star Wars is the softest major sci-fi world on this spectrum, from what I know. Here, the worlds themselves are usually the focus over the characters, and the plot reflects this more often than not.

I find it's much easier to justify a fatal vore society when there's a strong societal hierarchy, either a caste system or outright slavery. When you have dedicated pred & prey classes, being eaten at a pred's whim would simply be the grim normality of these people. Oppression and discrimination can work in a vore context as well as in any dystopian setting. The prey caste gets told "You're just prey, you're only purpose is to get eaten" all their life, it's believable that those people will accept their fate.

Soulex23 wrote:Soft World: You can have anything you want, since the characters themselves are the focus. Don't let the world get in the way of their struggles or be the tool to solve it, let the characters themselves be the source of plot progression and problem solving. The world in this case is used as a vessel and backdrop for the characters' stories, and used to evoke emotions in the readers/watchers.


Well... not that I'm trying to shamelessly promote it or anything, but I made a roughly 300 page long comic about this exact thing.

https://aryion.com/g4/view/619918

It stars a society of tiny anthro people forced on the far end of the prey spectrum due to their size, they're quite used to getting eaten by larger animals. Over time the story develops to the point where safe vore is systematically integrated into their society, by the end people are eating each other just for fun. While the vore is pretty frequent I put a heavy focus on character development and world-building, trying to strike a balance of lewds & feels to not bore the audience with too much of either.


Interesting. I still feel like from the pred's POV unless they're just hedonistic AF taking someone as a slave to produce things for you is probably more rational than eating them, unless food is much scarcer and people grow quick. An oppressive class system based on the idle powerful simply eating and digesting the downtrodden who must feed themselves only to end up in someone else's stomach would be plenty interesting, though I suspect with normal human 30 year generation times that class system would relegate the voring class to the top less than1% of society and maybe very occasionally whatever trained knights/police/military/internal security/slavecatchers they employ to eat those who challenge or attempt to escape this system. So basically royalty /plutocrats / corrupt executives /massive landowners or whatever would be the only ones who could afford to have people as a major part of their diet.

Also if it isn't enforced by some kind of biological necessity that this social order exist, I think with same size vore that could result in a rather revolution-prone society where "eat the rich" is taken very literally.

It's still interesting though even if it might not be particularly stable long term. And with some adjustments to growth and effort required to get food it definitely could have medium term stability (centuries??)
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Re: Vore-friendly worldbuilding

Postby Assimilation » Sat Feb 20, 2021 3:17 am

From a "hard world" writer perspective, I learned that I still have to let tons of questions stay unanswered for sanity's sake.

It's a possibility that you can account for enough variables to fully justify, for yourself, the vore world you imagine. But the more I dig through weblinks to learn the biology, psychology, and sociology of humans relevant for my vore fantasies, the less "return" I get for the hours invested. By "return", I mean that my new understanding might give me more inspiration for another sort of scenario that brings me pleasure—so it sucks to admit that I often will end that sleepless deep dive without adding to my imagined world. I hope it's obvious that I'm not saying you shouldn't care about the sci-fi/fantasy aspects of your vore world, though; instead, I'm recommending that you use the question, "Will this make it hotter?" as a filter to what variables should be played with (and which you handwave away) as you explore this topic so you don't bash your head against the wall in this pursuit.

Now that I've given my worldbuilding warning, the answer to your actual question: I always work with skyrocketing birthrate. I love the industrialization of human birth: mass impregnation operations, rapid gestation, accelerated maturity to adulthood.

In a world where humans are consumed en masse and almost always digested if so, I usually expect (and assume in the absence of explanation) that humans are produced en masse and "incubated" to quickly replenish society. Because I find it so fucking hot to trivialize the enormity of a human's life and legacy, this is a staple for my vore fantasies (and why I generally reject reformation, regardless of the possibility of sci-fi explanations). I therefore tend to have worlds where human mutation selection or biotechnological advancement has given higher catabolic rates to digest quickly, rich fertility/fecundity for frequent multiple birth, and dramatically-shortened pregnancy periods (and of course, all the changes needed for soft vore to work in the first place!). From this working point, I have the sheer numbers, but what of the "investment" cost in growing humans to the point they're fit for consumption?

I tend to favor the "predator's breastmilk is hyper-nutritious" trope. It's pretty arousing to me, though not nearly as much as the more sociopathic aspects of consumption and digestion of people, but there's a satisfactory circularity (satisfactory because I try not to answer too accurately) that female predators who consume people regularly can produce tons of milk, and the hormones or high fat content of that milk turns the nearly-two-decades of raising adults into just a few years (or faster, depending on which of my vore world fantasies I'm in), complete with most adult brain development (but not knowledge). This particular aspect is actually built on a false "fact"—15-ish years ago, the western news media chose to scare parents that the hormones in milk were causing early puberty in their daughters, even though general scientific consensus suggests that it's likely just better nutrient availability (and not necessarily just dietary fat) that has pushed the average age of puberty earlier in developed countries—but despite it being false, I can suspend my disbelief enough for it and accept it because it makes my fantasy stay titillating. I would not look forward to sifting through articles regarding breastmilk nutrition just to find the one half-complete factoid that sparks enough imagination to reassess this sufficiently-enamoring scenario.

So with society being callous to casual death because of casual birth, and because the predators' bodies have handled those questions of constant birth and speedy maturation, then I grapple with "Why do these psycho apex predators actually care to undergo pregnancies?" as the final necessity to begin imagining characters playing in this world. This is where my vore worlds really find their constraints—perhaps being a "brood mother" is lucrative as you sell your adult children for meat, or maybe being pregnant is sexually stimulating in that universe and the kids are a byproduct, or perhaps pregnant predators are exempt from being legally devoured, or what have you, etc., etc. These constraints really color the world in a way that I once again find highly arousing, and I only chase these explanations a level or two deeper because the reason why a brood mother wants money might need to be shallowly explained or I get inspired to further define the scenarios that arise from vore licensing shenanigans, but it's otherwise not required for me to enjoy my fantasy by this level.

This is the process in which I drive my fantasizing into "actionable" world-building, by always asking myself as I build, "Is this going to change my fantasy to make it hotter?" I can't engage in so many hard-world explanations without losing my meat in the sauce, so I have to limit my scope.
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Re: Vore-friendly worldbuilding

Postby AbsorbingMarkovState » Sat Feb 20, 2021 4:14 am

The food chain seems to work well enough IRL so I just put people in a natural environment where they're prey to larger carnivores.
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Re: Vore-friendly worldbuilding

Postby Slayerhero90 » Sat Feb 20, 2021 5:36 am

Other people here have already addressed the "eliminate the time to maturity by accelerating the growth/pregnancy rate" thing, but here's something else I did (in addition to making ten-year pregnancies lead to fully-grown offspring) for one of my settings to deal with the actual casualness of it:

Like a trident:
- Vore is the only way to actually die. You'll come back so long as you're not eaten.
- The world fucking sucks for like 99% of the population and getting eaten is easier than somehow achieving an easy life.
- There is a known afterlife to which all souls go, of endless delightful hedonism.
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Re: Vore-friendly worldbuilding

Postby MementoMori » Sat Feb 20, 2021 3:50 pm

Another thing I'd suggest that could help ease out the problem a little, is if you thought about adding reformation into the world? Just a thought - for example, if fatal vore was considered a normal commonplace action, because every time the prey came back, they came back a stronger or better version of themselves, or maybe even made them develop magical abilities or traits from their predator. Just some ideas off the top of my head in regards to that subject. This would give motivation for vore between anybody, even parent - offspring vore like you mentioned, yet would not actually hinder the population growth. Also, that would be a huge motivator if food was scarce. If reformation was possible, as long as everyone was willing to do it in that world, then vore would end world hunger, without actually permanently killing anybody.
Anyhow, good luck with your story when you write it and I hope you figure everything out for it! :)
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Re: Vore-friendly worldbuilding

Postby Redicicle » Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:42 pm

MementoMori wrote:Another thing I'd suggest that could help ease out the problem a little, is if you thought about adding reformation into the world? Just a thought - for example, if fatal vore was considered a normal commonplace action, because every time the prey came back, they came back a stronger or better version of themselves, or maybe even made them develop magical abilities or traits from their predator. Just some ideas off the top of my head in regards to that subject. This would give motivation for vore between anybody, even parent - offspring vore like you mentioned, yet would not actually hinder the population growth. Also, that would be a huge motivator if food was scarce. If reformation was possible, as long as everyone was willing to do it in that world, then vore would end world hunger, without actually permanently killing anybody.
Anyhow, good luck with your story when you write it and I hope you figure everything out for it! :)



Technically reformation does happen in the way I'm thinking things will go. It's not exactly easy though.

1. You use the bioformer to reconstruct them at a cellular level from a previous memory of their anatomy and memories. This means they don't have memories since the last time they used the bioformer.

2. The bioformer has no "copy" functionality. Only "cut" and "paste." The way it knows how you work is by taking you apart at a sub-cellular level. I.E. by dissolving you with nanomachines. It can then print you back cell by cell with a cell culture of your genetic line. It requires whatever part is working on to be at cryogenic temperatures because the body shouldn't react to being modified in this way.

3. If someone is only partially digested, the bioformer would be able to retrieve information from their recently-dead brain, though not their other anatomy which would need to be done by gross estimation of their genes and former appearance. It's not going to work well/at all if instead their brain is a liquified mess or an indistinguishable waste product. This is much more likely to happen with regular, unbioformed humans as their chemical incompatibility means the aliens or bioformed humans have an especially difficult time dissolving bones and fat, and actually absorbing any nutrients from the half-digested mess would cause them to get sick and empty their digestive tract through both ends (well, for the aliens that have exactly two ends to their digestive tract anyway, there are certainly some that don't).

4. The bioformer is both a finite resource (they only have a few of them on the ship) and an expensive one to use. It doesn't take as long as pregnancy but it's definitely more nutrient demanding and significantly inefficient. And it still takes like a few days to actually work. Stopping by every now and then to have your head frozen and dissolved off the rest of your body, then reprinted onto your body after maybe two days, is not exactly the easiest thing ever so making frequent backups is something most will not be doing. If someone does die then they're either permadead or gonna wake up in a few days forgetting everything they learned for quite awhile. And that's if there's sufficient nitrients to revive them.

5. Ok so the bioformer actually can do a lot more. In theory you could use it to make a brain parasite that is indigestible and could store up brain information in nucleic acids, and could be used as a backup to restore memories from during or just before digestion. It's just that pretty much nobody who survived the trip has more than a very amateur understanding of how to use the device. The actual interstellar ship had a bioformer specialist with lots of experience, but they died alongside many many other people in an accident. It may be that the newborne or remaining colonists learn how to use features like this, though even then it still requires a big expenditure of concentrated alien nutrients and it's gonna be a long, long time before they can build any more bioformers they didn't bring with them.

6. Pregnancy is still the dominant method of reproduction. It'll be modified to take like 2.5 months and produce adults, but the bioformer doesn't necessarily have any memory of most people because other than the original colonists, it didn't have to build or rebuild them.

So yeah I guess there is sort of reformation but it's not really a solution to people being eaten reducing the population so much as something that could allow some characters to be revived, or maybe some sneaky (but expensive) use of clones.
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