Random question on some terminology

[Rhewin]

I went active about 10 years ago and have just been writing again. In my most recent story, I used the word "hermaphrodite" and "herm" to describe a character that had working sex organs for both. The particular character identified toward female in the story, but theoretically in that world it wouldn't matter.

A friend who is into vore but is more in the furry community suggested that these terms aren't really used much anymore and it's better not to use them. I may not have been writing, but I don't recall hearing a character described as "herm" being problematic before. To be safe I did make the term derogatory in universe as well, but the only alternate description my friend gave was "intersex." Obviously in a vore story I'm not implying these people to be what we would call intersex. I got the feeling that maybe he was being sensitive to IRL intersexed individuals (to which being called a hermaphrodite is offensive).

I could use the word "Futa," but to me it sounds cheesy to actually use the term in the story. And, while I use the tag since more people know that term, I feel like Futa means something different. I always felt futanari typically had a dick and a vagina, but usually no scrotum and always presenting female. For the context of this story, I didn't think a herm necessarily would be. They could appear male, though one has not appeared in my stories yet.

So is my friend right? Is preferred to use Intersex or Futa instead of herm?

[Aleph-Null]

On this site most people use herm. I do not think the use of the term herm in the erotic works here directly correlate to intersex people IRL. In most fiction here, herms are essentially a fantasy sex.

I haven't encountered any complaints in the community about the use of the word hermaphrodite in fiction, however that does not mean that no one has complaints.

[Apex]

Fucking Christ, I've spent like two hours typing some fancy shit up and after some googling I have no idea what's right or wrong anymore so I'm just gonna wing it. Here's some stuff straight from Wikipedia.

The term "intersex"

Some people with intersex traits self-identify as intersex, and some do not. Australian sociological research published in 2016, found that 60% of respondents used the term "intersex" to self-describe their sex characteristics, including people identifying themselves as intersex, describing themselves as having an intersex variation or, in smaller numbers, having an intersex condition. A majority of 75% of survey respondents also self-described as male or female. Respondents also commonly used diagnostic labels and referred to their sex chromosomes, with word choices depending on audience. Research by the Lurie Children's Hospital, Chicago, and the AIS-DSD Support Group published in 2017 found that 80% of affected Support Group respondents "strongly liked, liked or felt neutral about intersex" as a term, while caregivers were less supportive. The hospital reported that "disorders of sex development" may negatively affect care.

Some intersex organizations reference "intersex people" and "intersex variations or traits" while others use more medicalized language such as "people with intersex conditions", or people "with intersex conditions or DSDs (differences of sex development)" and "children born with variations of sex anatomy". In May 2016, Interact Advocates for Intersex Youth published a statement recognizing "increasing general understanding and acceptance of the term 'intersex'".

However, a study by the American Urological Association found that 53% of participants did not like the term intersex.

Another study in 2020 found that around 43% of 179 participants thought the term "intersex" was bad, while 20% felt neutral about the term.


Hermaphrodite

Until the mid-20th century, "hermaphrodite" was used synonymously with "intersex". The distinctions "male pseudohermaphrodite", "female pseudohermaphrodite" and especially "true hermaphrodite" are terms no longer used, which reflected histology (microscopic appearance) of the gonads. Medical terminology has shifted not only due to concerns about language, but also a shift to understandings based on genetics.

Currently in biology, a hermaphrodite is defined as an organism that has the ability to produce both male and female gametes.

The Intersex Society of North America has stated that hermaphrodites should not be confused with intersex people, and that using hermaphrodite to refer to intersex individuals is considered to be stigmatizing and misleading.

Before googling and reading and thinking about all this, I would have said, "Yes, intersex is the appropriate term to call a real person with ambiguous or nonbinary genitals." Now I guess I'll just have to hope I'm still correct. Three surveys don't (and shouldn't) speak for an entire marginalized group but fuck, man. The results aren't exactly helpful.

My advice, though? Call your characters whatever you want. They're not real. They're not even realistic. They in no way represent what a real intersex person would be like in real life but anyone is free to introduce me to the intersex person they know with a functioning two-foot-long penis, similarly size testicles, and a functioning vagina beneath it. I'm tempted to argue that calling such a character "intersex' is actually damaging to real-life intersex people because it paints a fetishized and unrealistic view of them. At least calling the story version "hermaphrodites" might help create a divide between reality and fantasy.

But then, I'm an uneducated, straight cis male nobody on the internet so I'm the last person that should be giving out advice on this subject.

On this site most people use herm. I do not think the use of the term herm in the erotic works here directly correlate to intersex people IRL. In most fiction here, herms are essentially a fantasy sex.

I haven't encountered any complaints in the community about the use of the word hermaphrodite in fiction, however that does not mean that no one has complaints.

This is probably the answer I should have given, discovered while I was writing the one I actually gave. Short, sweet, to the point, and without all my boiling frustration with our reality.

[jaggedjagd]

.......................................

[Rhewin]

Yeah I'm increasingly feeling like they were being sensitive toward intersex people IRL. I can't find anything where someone was offended at herm being used to describe someone with both (or even just an otherwise female with a dick). I thought it sounded strange to me since they're a furry, and I think I see the term "herm" used in the furry community than anywhere else. Just wanted to be sure since you never know these days.

[Artemis]

Hermaphrodite is one of the less gross, porny terms you can use to describe such characters. Intersex is fine too. Anything else only more vulgar from there.

[TSaPA]

From what i've observed (in a non-irl, non-medical sense), intersex encompasses any deviation from standard biological sexual dimorphism, whereas hermaphrodite/herm was a specific subset entailing possession of functioning sets of both sexual organs. Ergo, all hermaphrodites are intersex, but not all intersex are hermaphrodites, as 'intersex' also describes characters possessing single sets of sexual organs not typical of their gender e.g. "futanari" with penises but no vaginas or otherwise male characters with a vagina in place of a penis.

[Oniric]

Ok, so I'm not an expert and this is just based on what I understand, but I think hermaphrodite characters (as in a fantasy erotic setting, where they usually have working sets of both genitals), are a completely different thing than the medical term intersex. With that in mind, using a term that refers to real people with a specific real-life condition (intersex) to describe what is essentially a fetish doesn't sound right to me, and I'd rather keep using herm.

That said... I've read that the word herm/hermaphrodite can be offensive to intersex people. While I don't know how prevalent that is, there's definitely a group of people who could be offended by its use, so keep that in mind. Futa is even worse, from what I understand, and I've seen it considered offensive and transphobic more than a few times. Do what you want with that information.

But I'm just a random cis dude. What I'd really love to know is the opinion of an actual intersex person.

[Rhewin]

That said... I've read that the word herm/hermaphrodite can be offensive to intersex people. While I don't know how prevalent that is, there's definitely a group of people who could be offended by its use, so keep that in mind. Futa is even worse, from what I understand, and I've seen it considered offensive and transphobic more than a few times. Do what you want with that information.

But I'm just a random cis dude. What I'd really love to know is the opinion of an actual intersex person.

I think ultimately anything I write will be offensive to someone. After all, I know people who take huge offense to any form of fatal vore. With any fantasy fetish, I think there's gotta be some room to say "ok, this isn't representing anyone real." The kinds of characters I write don't exist in the real world.

As far as getting an intersex individual's opinion, we'll be waiting a while as it is pretty statistically rare (talking only about the physical medical description). As far as futa being transphobic... yeah not opening that can of worms other than to say I don't think futanari are ever meant to refer to trans individuals. Maybe some shitty people have used them that way, but they seem to be a distinct (and unreal) category.

[ArcaneSigil]

I have a general question about terminology. Object Vore does kinda have another name. Pica. My cats have it and it's the desire to chew on things that aren't typically considered food. So object vore could be called pica and people into it could be called Picavores.