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Re:

Postby Eka » Thu May 10, 2007 12:02 am

DragoxDugles wrote:What about the movie clips and stuff in the media gallery? Aren't movies and stuff copyrighted? Just confused about this and wanting to know.


Fairuse
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Re:

Postby Delphinus » Thu May 10, 2007 12:17 am

Umm...well, I don't wish to dreg up whatever required a front-page re-post of the rules, but I do agree that copyright infringement is not good. Especially since soon I'll be joining the ranks of the published...

~Delph

(wait, did he just say what I think he said???)
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Re:

Postby Deathworks » Thu May 10, 2007 4:55 am

Hi!

As some people may have suspected, I am in full support of and thankful for this explicit policy statement. I really hope that people will understand and accept this, so that we will not see too much necessity for burdening the admins and mods with this in the future.

JE-da-Ferret wrote:I wholeheartedly agree with all this yet I find it sad and angering that it will still continue, virtually unabated. ...


I have to disagree with your pessimism on this one. I believe there can be change if we really want it. I believe you are right that those who deliberately and continually do this, mainly do this in order to get cheap praise. But this actually is the key where the community can bring change. Denying that praise and questioning the motives of such malevolent redistributors is what each and everyone of us can do. Either the redistributor can hold their ground and explain why they did it, or he or she will grow displeased with the absence of the positive results. Those who argue may be convinced to alter their behavior, those who do not are likely to eventually leave.

Of course, the internet is big, so if one place doesn't work out for them, they can go somewhere else. But even the internet can be moved, one step at a time.

I got concerned over the copyright problems in some threads here about one year ago. At first, while there was support for the thought that there was a problem, public support seemed to favor the redistributors at that time. But in recent weeks, a pattern has developed that people stand up and openly say "I think it is wrong for you to distribute this!". I may be wrong, but I have the impression that the climate concerning redistribution here has changed over time, and for the better in my opinion.

And it does not take much to create facts. Just a single user who starts openly questioning an upload. Just a single user who writes a simple e-mail or post to the artist or his distribution service informing them about what is going on. It is not that difficult, actually. Especially when professional services like download shops are involved, you can be sure that there are people who know how to handle the information you provide properly. And when dealing with individual artists, there is always the chance that they grant permission and/or that they decide to join Eka's Portal and directly contribute to our community. If you want something to be proud of, how about being the one who brought artist XXX to Eka's Portal?

My point is, everyone can do a little contribution in their own way, and with these contributions, I do believe we can change things, so that people once again consider it normal to respect the artists.

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Re:

Postby Umiriko » Thu May 10, 2007 6:25 am

arrr the joy of lore and order ^^ see this is why authroity figures are needed, thanks for stepping in eka
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Yes but

Postby Deathworks » Thu May 10, 2007 9:54 am

Hi!

Umiriko: As I said, I am happy about there being an official policy statement.

However, I want to point out that each and every member of the community can and should help keep things in order. My point is, if you see someone uploading something that should not be here, inform them about it, maybe pointing them to the rules in question or other related material. It may be the case that they made a mistake, so the issue can be resolved without the admins intervening.

Of course, if you have someone who tells you that they don't care about the rules, asking admin intervention may be the only choice, but I suggest to really limit it to cases where informing people politely does not solve the problem. Otherwise we end up burdening the admins unnecessarily.

I didn't want to criticize you. I have read how you have been involved in this issue recently, and I am really grateful for seeing members being so active. I just wanted to point out to the readers of your reply that while the admins have the final say, we should not ignore the possibilities we have to resolve problems in a civilized manner among ourselves without causing them additional work.

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Re: Yes but

Postby Eka » Thu May 10, 2007 2:45 pm

Deathworks wrote:Lots of things



Pretty much.
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Re:

Postby sampson » Sat May 19, 2007 3:50 pm

Agree :D
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Re:

Postby htfcuddles » Mon Jun 04, 2007 8:55 am

What I can say?
Agreed :)

I'm trying to do all-in-law, but if I commite a mistake, only PM me and I'll fix soon :)
(About copyrights, fair use and all that I have a loooong post for my blog at half, but is in spanish. When I upload it, I'll show to the interested people that can understand spanish lol)
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Re:

Postby Ka-Atis » Thu Jun 14, 2007 11:49 pm

Agree. And well said!


Still, I am somewhat confused about where the border between 'fair use' and 'copyright violation' exactly goes.

An example from a current thread:

The owners of http://www.scarysquirrel.org have redistributed a lot of films on their site, here, as wmv-files which can be downloaded and easily saved on the harddisk (the media player is enough). Below, they have written a short disclaimer on copyright:

"Videos are © their respective owners; offered here for entertainment only
scary squirrel world isn't endorsed by anyone and we don't endorse anyone"


I checked the offical page to one of the respective owners (http://mondo.happytreefriends.com/). There, they state 'all rights reserved' on their material, which *may* imply that they do not want *any* redistribution, including non-commersial, but they are not stating it specifically.

So, is the non-commersial redistribution of mondo/happytreefriends-films on http://www.scarysquirrel.org to be considered as fair use or copyright violation?

It is also to be said that the quality of the redistributed version was considerably poorer than the version on the original DVD.


And, how about linking to such material on the forum here? Just fine (even if the material linked to should be illegal), or is there a (real) risk that it could be considered as "supporting illegal redistribution of copyrighted material"...?
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Re:

Postby Mitch » Fri Jun 15, 2007 1:16 am

Thank the Almighty.

Good thread, Eka. Stealing bad people, dun do it. Unless you're a pirate. Then you can plunder booty. *Glances at Umi.* Treasure booty. Though I'm not one to tell a dragon what they can/can't plunder booty-wise.

But anywhoo, I'm glad to see that Eka's not one to let stuff like copyright infringement slide like some sites I've seen. Kudos to you then, Eka. *Slides a plate of cookies made with awesomeness baked in.*
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Re:

Postby Radijs » Fri Jun 15, 2007 4:11 am

"All rights reserved" They reserve the right to protest when you do anything that they don't like with their material.

Until they start to protest I think you can say that you have implied permission to link/redistribute.
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Re:

Postby Umiriko » Fri Jun 15, 2007 4:22 am

cookies!! arrg *raids and pilliages the plate, claiming the cookies as my booty, sailing off with a big laught*
muahahaha ^^ this be a mighty fine hawl of goodies
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Re:

Postby Cruich » Fri Jun 15, 2007 9:37 am

Which part of "all" do you think is unclear? Link, sure. Redistribute, hell no.
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Re:

Postby Ka-Atis » Fri Jun 15, 2007 7:32 pm

Cruich wrote:Which part of "all" do you think is unclear? Link, sure. Redistribute, hell no.


On linking: What are the rules here on Eka's on posting links to questionably redistributed material?

On redistribution: How much of the original work must have been removed in the redistributed form so that it can be considered as 'fair use'? Or are there any clear borders at all?


Radijs wrote:"All rights reserved" They reserve the right to protest when you do anything that they don't like with their material.

Until they start to protest I think you can say that you have implied permission to link/redistribute.


But what happens should they protest? Does the 'redistributor' only need to to remove the material from his page then, and everything is fine again, or does he also have to pay compensation for possible damage...

In Germany, such redistributors often have to pay such compensation (even without any warning first). In the US however, from what I have heard, you "only" get the "cease and desist"-letter..(?)


Umiriko wrote:cookies!! arrg *raids and pilliages the plate, claiming the cookies as my booty, sailing off with a big laught*
muahahaha ^^ this be a mighty fine hawl of goodies


*lols* XD
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Re:

Postby Umiriko » Fri Jun 15, 2007 9:27 pm

hehe they said cookies ^^ its not my fault
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Re:

Postby sorgens » Sat Jun 16, 2007 4:02 am

I had to reply to this. Certainly I am not in favor of theft, but it seems like the back bone of this site is using copyrighted material. How do you figure that the clips we have from movies in the archives are fair use? Or how about the numerous clips that were made by private individuals and by organizations that are there as well? Those have just as much copyright, if not more, than much of what is posted directly here by the original artist. How about the chat rooms? About 90 percent of people's profiles contain copyrighted (or at least copyrighted as much as anything in the artist files are) pictures. All they have to do is say "Will remove if requested" and its okay. But honestly, how likely is it that an artist who did their pic will happen to be in here and tell them to cease and desist? If those many anonymous artists are anything like some of the ones in here, then no doubt they would be angry. The alternative is to make all images, stories, and clips banned unless they are posted by the original artist, otherwise this all seem very hypocritical to me. I like the site the way that it is, and I don't want things removed, regardless. But think of how many people have "theme songs" I'm a musician with copyrighted music floating around out there. How many people have asked the bands who made the songs in their profiles if they could use them in a vore chat? What if I take offense to the lax policy regarding the use of songs in profiles? I could jump around and whine, and make it my crusade to stop using songs with out permission. But I won't, because I'm a grown up, and I understand that no one is hurt by this. It just seems that there is much hypocrisy here, and quite frankly, material that is here with out permission constitutes a good portion of what brings people to this site in the first place. In my opinion you should be able to do the same thing with pictures, clips, and stories that you do with profile pictures: Post a line about how you will take it down upon author's request.
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Re:

Postby TastyToni » Sat Jun 16, 2007 7:29 am

Fair use is a legal term in copyright law. In Canada, UK, Australia,etc however it is called 'Fair dealing'. It seems to vary from country to country exactly how the law is interpreted.

Fair Use in the USA:
http://fairuse.stanford.edu/Copyright_a ... index.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use

Fair dealing in the Commonwealth of Nations:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_dealing

For my own part, I am slowly introducing Creative Commons Share Alike licenses to my art to make it easier for people to redistribute my art, and modify it, without having to ask permission. I'm doing this because I would say yes anyway.
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Re:

Postby delet359hs56h2 » Sun Jun 17, 2007 10:40 pm

Let's see here from my understanding....

Copyright violation would consist of either claiming an artists work to be your own with no mutual consent. (I have no idea of why there would be mutual consent)

Copyright violation also would consist of "Sharing" material whether clipping to the certain thread Or actually creating a file on another site as your own gallery while posting said work without permission of said artist.

Linking as far as I have seen causes no harm for you are bringing the most loved form of advertisement...."Word to mouth".

Any videos an artist makes can be redistributed as long as the rights are still bound to that said media and fair use terms....We all know that Disney made Bambi and some jerk-off would not be able to try and sell it on-line because of your user agreement with your local network provider....anyone could link right off of it.

Basically as long as you don't say "HEY THIS SHIZNIT IS MINE..ALL MINE...IM SOO L33T"...Than your fine...remember your P's and Q's and ask the artist, thats all it takes. If you do decide your so L33T than you'll end up being caught by the U.S. Government by a submission of violation to the Feds. you'll piss of some corporation, for i know Peanuts(c) is sensitive(aka snoopy and gang) and stuff like that, Mall of America Buisness...LOlz.

Well anyway not to sound like a scare tactic in the use it is supposedly true our government since the beginning of the internet has copied everything every put on the web in large bunker there are hundreds of terabytes of information. So yeah just be careful.
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Re:

Postby TastyToni » Mon Jun 18, 2007 1:53 am

Snookums wrote:Well anyway not to sound like a scare tactic in the use it is supposedly true our government since the beginning of the internet has copied everything every put on the web in large bunker there are hundreds of terabytes of information. So yeah just be careful.


That wouldn't surprise me. Government agencies probably have exemptions on copyright law. Anyway, most of the internet is already backed up in the wayback machine:

http://www.archive.org/index.php

Quite handy...
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Re:

Postby TastyToni » Mon Jun 18, 2007 2:00 am

Snookums wrote:Any videos an artist makes can be redistributed as long as the rights are still bound to that said media and fair use terms....We all know that Disney made Bambi and some jerk-off would not be able to try and sell it on-line because of your user agreement with your local network provider....anyone could link right off of it.


No thats not it. Its not fair use to distribute the whole film. But fair use can include a small snippet for the purpose of review, criticism etc. It might be a legal grey area whether distribution here comes under that, but we'd probably come out okay. Although if legal notice was served, we could probably get away with just removing them. For example, some tv channel served YouTube a legal action to remove clips of its cartoons. YouTube simply removed the clips as far as I know. Although don't quote me on that... 8)

None of what I have said on this thread constitutes legal advice, as I am not a lawyer...
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