Best Ai for vore?

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Re: Best Ai for vore?

Postby fixated1 » Mon Jan 09, 2023 10:26 am

temporos wrote:
JediPadawanJess wrote:I'm strongly anti AI generated images as they steal art from hard working artists, please support real artists.

Ehhh... I try not to make blanket absolute statements like that. AIs don't have to steal the artwork they ingest. It's just what's fed to them by their human operators. So, in the case of AI-generated artwork, the potential problem is the humans not the AI.


This stealing machine that steals is free from morality. It's the person pushing the steal button that is to blame.

That's how this argument reads to me, and yes I view training the ai with a data set as theft unless the real artist gives permission
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Re: Best Ai for vore?

Postby Chessa » Mon Jan 09, 2023 10:45 am

fixated1 wrote:
temporos wrote:
JediPadawanJess wrote:I'm strongly anti AI generated images as they steal art from hard working artists, please support real artists.

Ehhh... I try not to make blanket absolute statements like that. AIs don't have to steal the artwork they ingest. It's just what's fed to them by their human operators. So, in the case of AI-generated artwork, the potential problem is the humans not the AI.


This stealing machine that steals is free from morality. It's the person pushing the steal button that is to blame.

That's how this argument reads to me, and yes I view training the ai with a data set as theft unless the real artist gives permission


And this reads to me and probably many others as well as being part of what I was getting at earlier -- that you wouldn't really accept AI even if it were fixed -- Unfortunately even if AI was reformed, lots of artists will oppose it for no other reason except that it threatens their profits -- So even if we did solve this complaint, it wouldn't really fix the problem of artists despising AI, sadly the AI hate in artist circles existed before AI art was even a thing.
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Re: Best Ai for vore?

Postby fixated1 » Mon Jan 09, 2023 11:07 am

Chessa wrote:
fixated1 wrote:
This stealing machine that steals is free from morality. It's the person pushing the steal button that is to blame.

That's how this argument reads to me, and yes I view training the ai with a data set as theft unless the real artist gives permission


And this reads to me and probably many others as well as being part of what I was getting at earlier -- that you wouldn't really accept AI even if it were fixed -- Unfortunately even if AI was reformed, lots of artists will oppose it for no other reason except that it threatens their profits -- So even if we did solve this complaint, it wouldn't really fix the problem of artists despising AI, sadly the AI hate in artist circles existed before AI art was even a thing.


Nobody is going to enthusiastically cheer on having their job taken from them, especially artists who are ridiculed and underpaid even while people try to figure out how to get more from them because they really want their product. But yes, if the ethics problems were solved I wouldn't have an argument to stand on. I think it will be sad when human creativity dies. I don't find typing prompts to be a form of artistic expression. But at least it wouldn't be done off the backs of unappreciated labor
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Re: Best Ai for vore?

Postby Chessa » Mon Jan 09, 2023 11:22 am

fixated1 wrote:Nobody is going to enthusiastically cheer on having their job taken from them, especially artists who are ridiculed and underpaid even while people try to figure out how to get more from them because they really want their product.


I want to make clear how dangerous, and ultimately harmful, this idea is. If we agreed with this logic, we would have suppressed factory automation, we'd have suppressed the printing press, we'd have suppressed tons of stuff that keeps people alive today.

We can't work on that, just because profits are lost for some (Artists who refuse to include AI in their workflow) doesn't mean that they get priority over everyone else. We Need AI right now, we as in every living being on this planet. It's the difference between climate change winning and all life we know of losing. So we need to solve this problem, we can't solve the issue of AI obsoleting people, we just have to provide any people it obsoletes with an income and financial safety, and lots of countries do right now if AI causes their work to no longer be profitable, I support that.
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Re: Best Ai for vore?

Postby Chameleonette » Mon Jan 09, 2023 12:28 pm

Chessa wrote:
fixated1 wrote:Nobody is going to enthusiastically cheer on having their job taken from them, especially artists who are ridiculed and underpaid even while people try to figure out how to get more from them because they really want their product.


I want to make clear how dangerous, and ultimately harmful, this idea is. If we agreed with this logic, we would have suppressed factory automation, we'd have suppressed the printing press, we'd have suppressed tons of stuff that keeps people alive today.

We can't work on that, just because profits are lost for some (Artists who refuse to include AI in their workflow) doesn't mean that they get priority over everyone else. We Need AI right now, we as in every living being on this planet. It's the difference between climate change winning and all life we know of losing. So we need to solve this problem, we can't solve the issue of AI obsoleting people, we just have to provide any people it obsoletes with an income and financial safety, and lots of countries do right now if AI causes their work to no longer be profitable, I support that.


You're comparing apples to oranges. Art is not a necessity that ever needed to be automated. And the people it helps and keeps alive are the ones that actually make it, not machines. That is so far a stretch that you're in outer space somewhere.

The AI has already stolen from countless artists. This is not and should not be viewed as OK. And like Eka said, it's too late to be undone. It already HAS been done. Artists are going to be upset and not view it positively and rightfully so. It's theft.

And as this thread already demonstrates, the AI is not being used as the 'artist's tool' it was meant to be, in most cases. It's being used by people that want to feed it prompts and other people's art to get free art. And the idea the artists will ever be compensated for any of this is horrendously unlikely. People already complain about artists and their art when artists are often severely underpaid for their work as it is.
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Re: Best Ai for vore?

Postby Chessa » Mon Jan 09, 2023 1:17 pm

Chameleonette wrote:You're comparing apples to oranges. Art is not a necessity that ever needed to be automated. And the people it helps and keeps alive are the ones that actually make it, not machines. That is so far a stretch that you're in outer space somewhere.

The idea that some things should be automated and some things shouldn't is plainly untrue. Art intersects with sooo many things it's unreal, text to image AI has been used to make safer floor plans for buildings even. That's the exact same technology being used right now. It's not as simple as 1 thing being a necessity and the other thing not, sadly. But I'm more alarmed by how effective AI tech has been at helping climate stuff.
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Re: Best Ai for vore?

Postby fixated1 » Mon Jan 09, 2023 1:32 pm

Chessa wrote:
Chameleonette wrote:You're comparing apples to oranges. Art is not a necessity that ever needed to be automated. And the people it helps and keeps alive are the ones that actually make it, not machines. That is so far a stretch that you're in outer space somewhere.

The idea that some things should be automated and some things shouldn't is plainly untrue. Art intersects with sooo many things it's unreal, text to image AI has been used to make safer floor plans for buildings even. That's the exact same technology being used right now. It's not as simple as 1 thing being a necessity and the other thing not, sadly. But I'm more alarmed by how effective AI tech has been at helping climate stuff.


No, they're right. Art really doesn't need to be automated. It wouldn't benefit anyone except people that don't want to pay artists. Expressing yourself artistically is therapeutic. Typing prompts isn't expressing yourself. The fact that art intersects so much should tell you that we have an image need to express ourselves. This isn't making anyone safer or improving anyone's lives. It's taking something we need away from us
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Re: Best Ai for vore?

Postby Chameleonette » Mon Jan 09, 2023 1:34 pm

Chessa wrote:
Chameleonette wrote:You're comparing apples to oranges. Art is not a necessity that ever needed to be automated. And the people it helps and keeps alive are the ones that actually make it, not machines. That is so far a stretch that you're in outer space somewhere.

The idea that some things should be automated and some things shouldn't is plainly untrue. Art intersects with sooo many things it's unreal, text to image AI has been used to make safer floor plans for buildings even. That's the exact same technology being used right now. It's not as simple as 1 thing being a necessity and the other thing not, sadly. But I'm more alarmed by how effective AI tech has been at helping climate stuff.


Again, apples to oranges. You only bring up examples that are using it as it was meant to be: a tool. If that was how it was strictly being used, there would be a lot less of an issue.

The entire issue lies in that 95%+ of the people who use it and will use it, simply wish to shortcut their way to finished art by using art stolen from other artists. This is not and will not be okay. And it cannot be controlled. The AIs have already been polluted with immeasurable amounts of stolen art. And they aren't going to magically go back to step one. People, especially artists, can and will fight what AI art has already become in the hands of lazy, entitled people. There is no going back. And I still don't believe creativity should be automated.
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Re: Best Ai for vore?

Postby Belloc » Mon Jan 09, 2023 1:41 pm

Comparing art AI to AI use in combatting climate change is unnecessary and ill advised. The fate of billions does not rest on my ability to type a prompt and produce a picture of a guy with a thick ass. That's just changing the topic.

I do not like the trend of using art AI to undermine the need for real human laborers who must be paid. And I also do not like the trend of theft that fueled the current generation (and will therefore taint the future iterations) of art AI. As Eka and Chammy said, artists aren't disturbed by AI because they are selfish luddites sitting on hoards of gold. They are disturbed because they are exploited laborers who have witnessed evidence of new exploitation and it rightly depresses and angers them.

I personally think the proliferation of AI will continue. Not because AI is always good or always effective in every case but because it is a tool that protects the profits of corporations and billionaires while also improving the workloads that get invested in by states, companies, and communities. AI isn't a person, it's just a tool. A very old one too. Artists' reactions to the current art AI trends isn't a general statement on the moral value of AI as a concept. It's a completely rational response to witnessing a theft happening NOW and responding to it NOW. It's not rural peasants tearing up traintracks because they fear steam engines: it's railworkers getting upset because they saw a fellow union get shut down and fear that they will be next.
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Re: Best Ai for vore?

Postby Nic386 » Mon Jan 09, 2023 2:01 pm

Chessa wrote:
Chameleonette wrote:You're comparing apples to oranges. Art is not a necessity that ever needed to be automated. And the people it helps and keeps alive are the ones that actually make it, not machines. That is so far a stretch that you're in outer space somewhere.

The idea that some things should be automated and some things shouldn't is plainly untrue. Art intersects with sooo many things it's unreal, text to image AI has been used to make safer floor plans for buildings even. That's the exact same technology being used right now. It's not as simple as 1 thing being a necessity and the other thing not, sadly. But I'm more alarmed by how effective AI tech has been at helping climate stuff.




EVERYTHING should be automated then?

I doubt you would be in favor of replacing judges, or governmental decision makers with an AI. I for one would never want decisions like that made by a program, a human element must be retained. Perhaps I am a luddite in this respect, but I do believe there are areas where automation should not be progressed. Art is certainly one of those. Outside of simply the labor and artwork stolen by these AI's in their data collection, there is also an unquantifiable aspect of human expression that goes into and is taken from art that AI simply does not replicate.
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Re: Best Ai for vore?

Postby Eka » Mon Jan 09, 2023 2:27 pm

Chessa wrote:And this reads to me and probably many others as well as being part of what I was getting at earlier -- that you wouldn't really accept AI even if it were fixed -- Unfortunately even if AI was reformed, lots of artists will oppose it for no other reason except that it threatens their profits -- So even if we did solve this complaint, it wouldn't really fix the problem of artists despising AI, sadly the AI hate in artist circles existed before AI art was even a thing.


fixated1 wrote:Nobody is going to enthusiastically cheer on having their job taken from them, especially artists who are ridiculed and underpaid even while people try to figure out how to get more from them because they really want their product. But yes, if the ethics problems were solved I wouldn't have an argument to stand on. I think it will be sad when human creativity dies. I don't find typing prompts to be a form of artistic expression. But at least it wouldn't be done off the backs of unappreciated labor


These statements definitely have a theme, it is a theme that AI is absolute. They absolutely are not. Nothing is.

As artists, we are responsible to react to what is happening to the world. It would be nice if the world will just stop for us to catch up at whatever pace we want, but every profession involves competitiveness. It is unavoidable. We should learn and understand and take advantage of it.

AI is absolute not just about trying out prompts. We should make an attempt and hold back any distrust and hesitation and try it for ourselves, like everything else. To some, it is just a new tool.

Chessa wrote:The entire issue lies in that 95%+ of the people who use it and will use it, simply wish to shortcut their way to finished art by using art stolen from other artists. This is not and will not be okay.


I am personally against this mindset. Mostly because we don't have a say. We never did. If somehow, current creativity is automated, we will just have to find a new way to create.

And I really doubt it is going to happen in this absolute way. Even if AI replaced 95% of the artist workflow, it doesn't mean the last 5% isn't important. If anything, it might become more valuable. Think back thru the history of art. Imagine having to source a piece of marble and go through the grind to polish it into a status. Imagine traveling for days to get the right paint... Did we truly lose any value not having to do those now?

And it cannot be controlled. The AIs have already been polluted with immeasurable amounts of stolen art. And they aren't going to magically go back to step one. People, especially artists, can and will fight what AI art has already become in the hands of lazy, entitled people. There is no going back. And I still don't believe creativity should be automated


And I don't think this is true, either. It is easy to verifies whether a model has stolen art. What we are seeing right now is accidental. Stable Diffusion is an accident. It wasn't meant to do what it is doing. They stumble upon the finding, and they are taking steps to adjust. An ethical model can be made. And will be.

I doubt you would be in favor of replacing judges, or governmental decision makers with an AI.


I would. For anything important, I most certainly do not trust humans to be impartial. The only reason we do now is that we have no choice. What matters are the results. Actual justice is what matter. When the choice became viable, show me the statistic, proves to me AI makes a better judge and I will flip like you wouldn't believe. In the end, my wish is to give people justice, we want to protect the innocent and deter the guilty. How we get there is really not as important as the innocent's life.

I for one would never want decisions like that made by a program, a human element must be retained.


Saying "never" is a classic human flaw. I hope one day we stop repeating that mistake.
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Re: Best Ai for vore?

Postby Chessa » Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:49 pm

Nic386 wrote:EVERYTHING should be automated then?

I doubt you would be in favor of replacing judges, or governmental decision makers with an AI. I for one would never want decisions like that made by a program, a human element must be retained. Perhaps I am a luddite in this respect, but I do believe there are areas where automation should not be progressed. Art is certainly one of those. Outside of simply the labor and artwork stolen by these AI's in their data collection, there is also an unquantifiable aspect of human expression that goes into and is taken from art that AI simply does not replicate.


As said, if a position is shown to be effective and humane at the control of an artifical intelligence, I'm onboard with it being automated. I am genuinely incredibly pro-AI. AI has been shown to be incredibly efficient when used and also to be best for the environment -- It's really a no brainer to me.

Everything shouldn't be automated, only the things that are proven to work with AI. Judges or Government officials are on the table for automation in this sense ... But not with what we have right now, our AI would need to be more advanced.

I think this from Eka needs to be restated too!

And I don't think this is true, either. It is easy to verifies whether a model has stolen art. What we are seeing right now is accidental. Stable Diffusion is an accident. It wasn't meant to do what it is doing. They stumble upon the finding, and they are taking steps to adjust. An ethical model can be made. And will be.


This is incredibly true, there will be an ethical model of stable diffusion made using only consentual art. This is a thing that will happen, and when it does I'll be supporting it.
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Re: Best Ai for vore?

Postby PyrZero72 » Wed Jan 11, 2023 7:19 am

As both an artist and someone who commissions art, I am not necessarily opposed to the idea of A.I. art.
I feel like too many people these days try so hard to commodify and hold sacred every aspect art when that was never the purpose of art in my opinion, to me art has always been about the simple joy of creation and contribution. The reason I started creating art was because whenever I would look at the artwork of others it felt like I was looking at their imaginations being printed on a canvas, it was like they could make their greatest desires and fantasies come to life and I wanted to be a part of that, I wanted to share my greatest desires are fantasies with the world too so that other people of like minded interest could enjoy them.

But let’s be serious here, creating art is hard, it takes time, money, practice, and a generous amount of innate talent. Not everyone has access to those things I listed, heck, I have been drawing ever since I could hold a pencil and I have spent tons of money on art courses and yet I believe my artwork is still worse than 90% of the people on here.
A. I. art provides a way for people to create art even if they would not have otherwise had the time, money, or talent to do so effectively.

Of course there’s the elephant in the room though, that A. I. art steals the existing works of artists, and I completely understand why this makes people angry, however as long as the A. I. is used ethically with art that it has permission to use I have no problem with it.
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Re: Best Ai for vore?

Postby Chessa » Wed Jan 11, 2023 8:32 am

PyrZero72 wrote:But let’s be serious here, creating art is hard, it takes time, money, practice, and a generous amount of innate talent. Not everyone has access to those things I listed, heck, I have been drawing ever since I could hold a pencil and I have spent tons of money on art courses and yet I believe my artwork is still worse than 90% of the people on here.
A. I. art provides a way for people to create art even if they would not have otherwise had the time, money, or talent to do so effectively.


As a game designer who is experiencing it rn, don't let imposter syndrome get to you, you're probably pretty good at art and just since you're the one who made it, you naturally see it as lesser. I dunno why we do that, but we just do.
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Re: Best Ai for vore?

Postby jonathan1501 » Wed Jan 11, 2023 3:46 pm

Currently, Novel AI is the best one out there for vore.
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Re: Best Ai for vore?

Postby THEholySnail » Thu Feb 09, 2023 6:53 pm

Starry AI is actually a great one. It has quite a lot of different styles to offer and with enough experimentation, it is indeed possible to create swallowing-related material.
Also, Human/snake , Human/dragon and mawshots are a particularly well-working thing with crayion.
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Re: Best Ai for vore?

Postby merlovinit » Mon Feb 13, 2023 8:35 pm

From what I've seen the NovelAI Furry Model is the best for generating kink art. Even if you intend to generate humans, the standard NovelAI model basically refuses to do significant body modification. Regarding vore specifically, right now I don't try to generate anything other than maybe stomach bulges because I'm too lazy to spend time on anything other than prompt engineering. I'm sure you could get there with a lot of in-painting or photomanip, but for me personally I would just start drawing at that point since I'm also an artist.

On the other, more vigorous topic of discussion: I don't agree with the claims that AI steals from artists. From a law perspective, I think it's pretty tortured to suggest that training on copyrighted data is itself a copyright violation since the outputs of the AI would most likely be considered "transformative" from the training data. Philosophically, what the AI does equates to learning and knowledge and creativity isn't a finite resource that can be "stolen." A lot of artists think that if AI couldn't be trained on copyrighted artwork, that image generators couldn't be made. I personally doubt that, too. These AI's "understand" the content more than people give them credit for, and in a few years the programs will be so good that it really wont matter that much whether or not they have access to copyrighted data.
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Re: Best Ai for vore?

Postby TerriblesJeux » Tue Feb 21, 2023 5:02 pm

I also think NAI is pretty decent. The downside is that the models are so heavily trained, everything looks animey or otherwise cartoon-like and you can't get anywhere realistic painting styles, let alone photorealism. I've since switched over to mage.space which has several stable diffusion models available, but I haven't been able to reliably get them generating decent mouths.

Here's few generated on NAI, mostly on furry model but few might have been anime. Some anthro cow women, couple humans, some weird experimental monsters. Everything created on NAI gets a bit wonky and this is particularly noticeable on human faces.

Spoiler: show
Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image


Regarding the AI vs art thing, as someone who struggled and then gave up on the idea of making income with my art it's a bit depressing, but it is what it is and I wouldn't really want to turn clock backwards with this technology. I'm merely hoping in the end open source and transparent training policies will win and big corporations end up losing, but yeah, we will see.
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Re: Best Ai for vore?

Postby Newtonne » Mon Feb 27, 2023 5:21 pm

AI can train on my art no problem. As an artist, I encourage it. I don't really understand the counter argument I keep seeing here on how AI is stealing from artists. I copied and learned from other artists in order to be a decent artist myself. Guess I should be sued then! All their "blood sweat and tears" going into my learning. Especially considering Stable Diffusion is literally open source and free, I really don't understand what argument can be made that it is somehow "profiting" off the work of artists. Paid services, sure, the argument can apply a bit there.

Now to actually contribute to the discussion: ChatGPT is surprisingly good at vore! While it won't downright write vorefics, it can help with vorefics. Instead of asking chatGPT to generate a sequence of a teacher digesting a student, I can just ask it to write a sequence of a teacher with a bloated gut full of digesting meat and bone. Technically that meat and bone is not a person being harmed. You can then copy over the described sequence to your vore story and add the contextual details that would've set off the content filters. It makes writing fast and high quality.

OpenAI playground also works well.

You[.]com is another great chatgpt alternative that is also decent at writing vore, although I'd say its a little lower quality.

Self hosted KoboldAI models are.... honestly not great. The biggest models you can get running with the best graphics cards available to consumers are only 20B parameters and their tuning/training just isn't very good. ChatGPT has already proven to me that AI can write extremely good vore. I've even seen it accidentally write explicitly violent and sexual vore sequences before quickly redacting it. It's just a matter of model size and fine tuning.

There has been some news regarding 4 bit quantization being implemented in order to run large 20B+ sized models on consumer hardware, even possibly smartphones (Companies REALLY want to get this stuff running on smartphones). I don't doubt in the next few years we will see something like chatGPT being run locally on home computers. That is the inevitable fate of almost every single software that has been developed in the past. So keep your eyes on the news/4chan boards/github. Things are about to get very fun for us I think.
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Re: Best Ai for vore?

Postby Morphy » Mon Feb 27, 2023 9:32 pm

While not really "omg AI", I recently spotted SuperImage over on F-droid; a neural network-based image upscaling app. Similar to the web based upscaling services but this one is meant for the android phone so your data stays private. (No idea how long it'd take since it uses the phone's GPU versus a pc's monsterous GPU)

It's a step...
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