Perma-Death in Vore Games

[Zacharus255]

I'm currently working on a vore game (Basically a Semi-Sandbox set at a University) and I had a question regarding uses of the save system.
In the game Vore will be fatal, but the Pred can visit a clinic that can reform the Prey, if the Pred chooses to do so.
Regarding this, if the Player gets digested and the Pred does not choose to reform the Player, should the Player be allowed to simply reload a save (happens automatically at the start of each day), or should the save-file be deleted, forcing the Player to restart completely?
The former would basically remove any and all real consequences from pissing off an NPC, breaking the law or similar, but the latter might be overkill, possibly wasting a lot of time.

A bit of extra context:
In general, the only scenario where the Player would not be reformed, is when the Player has a pretty bad reputation or they have seriously pissed someone off on purpose, meaning if the Player isn't reformed, it's always due to the actions the Player has purposefully taken. Also, if the Player fails a semester at the university the Player will be digested by the teachers, ending in a deleted save-file.

One solution to this might be, to any set the Player back to the start of each semester, this would be a useful medium, but what do you think?

An unrelated question: The game is set in a university, meaning realistically, the Player will only be there for a maximum of five in-game years. Would this soft timer be detrimental to the game and should it just go on forever, or would it be fine?

[IddlerItaler]

I believe just giving a "Game over" screen and letting the player decide whether they want to start a new game or reload would be fine. I wouldn't go to the length of deleting a save file unless they opted in for a "hardcore" mode. Implementing that would be extra effort, but it could provide the best of both worlds - giving more thrill for the players who are into that, as they know that if they misstep their entire savefile could be flushed down along with their character while not being too punishing for those who want to play an easier game or just experiment around in a sandbox. If you're not sure I'd just play it by the book and allow people to reload.

If I can propose a scenario, I'd suggest to have some rare preds who will not reform the prey even the prey was a nice person, going off of this idea I had:

Perma by laziness. Take a setting where reformation is just a button press away. A prey and pred meet, they hit it off, and before anyone's eaten the pred promises they will reform the prey. The prey is then swallowed, and spends a night of pleasure in the predator's belly, eventually melting down... Come next morning, the predator goes about their business and never bothers reforming the prey. Either it completely slips their mind, or they keep putting it off because "I need to go to the store, I need to have a coffee, I need to finish watching this video, I'm not sure where I put the reformation device and I'm too lazy to look for it now, etc."

Most preds would be considerate enough to reform the player but you never know... Would be another way to add an element of risk and uncertainty to the game, and an incentive for the player to make sure the interactions go well and they are actively liked.

A five years time limit sounds reasonable, especially if there's lots of gameplay in them.

[Matteo42]

The idea I would try and work out, personally, is to make it genuinely final, or maybe have a huuuge setback in time if you fail and get permanently chomped. As a countermeasure, make the process of trying to exit the pred and save yourself a fun gamemode of sorts, pushing the players to take risks for the fun/challenge of trying to escape and so your eventual success feels rewarding.
As you said, reloading save files is preeeetty boring, it makes everything a bit pointless since you can always roll back. Starting over at the start of the day is an idea, probably the easiest to execute too.

idk, I suck at giving ideas like this, sorry xD

[Dage]

Oh hey, that sounds similar to what I'm working on!

To me it sounds like reforming is what happens in most cases and a true game over is rare, so there's no need to make it overly punishing. Forcing the player to reload will show that it was a serious mistake with consequences, and not being able to progress further should they repeat those mistakes is plenty. As far as what that reload looks like it depends on how often you let the player save. Limiting them to certain places or times raises the stakes while letting them know where they can let their guard down (ie. right after a save).

It's also important to think about what progression actually looks like in your game and how different setbacks would interact with that. Forcing a player to retread things isn't good if the things they're repeating are long and boring, especially if you don't have anything to introduce variety and randomness into each repeated attempted. Even games with great characters and narratives can grow dull on repeated playthroughs if doing so requires little from the player and doesn't yield anything new. Conversely if there's not much actually required to progress then every setback will feel the same. There have to be differences in what the player can do when they first start versus as they progress, otherwise a new game is no different from a reload or even a revival.

My suggestion would be to consider how much of a sandbox your game will be. If you have ideas for more structured narratives then allowing multiple saves is good to allow the player to experiment and see new things without having to replay the whole game. If it's a playspace largely without structure then permadeath may not be too bad, but consider taking notes from roguelikes in giving the player boons as they progress to make each subsequent attempt a bit easier, cutting down on the repetition and introducing more variety. And always remember that you can just make it optional.



As far as forcing an end to the game after five years I think it depends on what the player's goals and interaction are and how things will change over time. Even in a game like Stardew Valley most players never reach five years, both because you can complete most important things in the first three and because little changes after the second. If you want a limit for mechanical reasons you should think about why, and if you want it for narrative reasons it'd be good to consider making it a smaller timeframe (or making ways for the time to pass faster, whether through making each year only a few months long or by giving the player a way to skip forward in time).

[Aleph-Null]

To clarify the original question, it sounds like you are not so much asking about the consequences of vore, but rather how perma-death interacts with gameplay mechanics. That is to say, vore is an in setting thing, and you have defined what it means already. The question is about whether or not to implement a perma-death mechanic to the game. So far we don't know much about the game mechanics, so it is hard to comment.

Death and perma-death in games needs to be thought of as part of the gameplay loop. At least it is if you intend for your players to play the game again. Think of death in a souls-like. Death functions as part of the learning process. You learn mechanics through death, come back and win. Learning this way would be insanely tedious if perma-death was the norm. Players can play a hardcore run, but that is a choice and a personal challenge after the player has developed a high level of mastery. Compare that to the rouge-lite/like genres where perma-death is baked into the gameplay loop. There may be a learning experience similar to souls like, but the difference is that death doesn't really change the core gameplay experience.

Note that none of the above has to do with player choice. This is all related to the gameplay loop. If you are implementing perma-death it should feel fun within the core gameplay loop. It should not be a part of narrative unless you want people to put down the game at that point.

[Kntstar]

I wouldn't do a perma-death as a main feature but add it as a hard mode option. I would have it so that if you get digested and not reformed by someone else, then you go back to the previous save. As for other characters, I would give them a chance to reform without you. Maybe another character reforms them instead because of there relationship to each other. This could effect both there opinions of you.

I have never liked Perma-death as a feature. while I do like a challenge sometimes, all I really want to do is have fun. I'm not saying it's a bad idea but have it as an option so players can choose how they want to play.

As for the ending, instead of ending after you graduate, You continue but now YOU are a teacher and so are some of the other students that you spent time with.

Just my opinions and ideas.

[theonlymatt]

I tend to make a save before every scene I like, so deleting my save would probably be a dealbreaker for me. Or if I liked it enough, I'd just back up my save file making the mechanic an annoyance.

[Bigfatpiggy]

I like the way Retale handles it. You get three lives called "Chain hearts". You can buy more chain hearts for a fee. Each time you get digested, a goddess takes a chain heart and reforms you. If you run out, the goddess eats you and you get a game over.

[gzdten]

a possible middle ground would be to separate the game into chapters, or possibly semesters, and have a game-over return them to the beginning of that chapter.

[BazBackup]

I'll be honest - any mechanic like this is going to be a turn-off. And in my opinion kind of goes against the point of a kink game.

[ryanshowseason3]

Make it an option. There will be those that want it for sure but I wouldn't enforce it unless it is the central point of the game. Doesn't sound like it is though.

I had similar design difficulties recently and wanted a system like this to encourage players not to simply go for the quickest death. I'm going a different route now though and adding compounding consequences for getting yourself a game over. There will only be one save file and you can digest and reform but certain warned circumstances can end in game over. When that happens there will be a timeout on continuing. Starting with a minute, then growing to several, then hours, finally days and weeks for dozens of game overs. You'll get more vore content by playing smart. Clearing the game memory will mean losing progress though.

[Awolfest]

I'd stray away from trying to make your game "hard" Not a whole lot of people want a fetish game that's challenging to beat.