Insane dragon fan incident #517

[Humbug]

Well, I guess I just formulated an opinion about sir Drac. Above-average intelligence but a low charisma (Go D&D). Everything is negative with this guy.
He, like many of the people he's accusing doesn't even read the posts of his adversaries. He just assumes that if there's a furry avatar next to the post, the person's attacking him, and he skips it. The guy isn't worth paying attention to if he doesn't pay attention to others.
I don't have any background on BG, 'cuz I've never been there, so I came into this discussion with an open mind, trying to figure out what to do. I can't say I'm with Strega, but I'm almost certainly against Drac. I'm sorry I said to be civil to the guy, because he doesn't return the favor.
Strega, I'd suggest locking this thread. It's now going nowhere. 'Course, it's your choice.

[Chrisis]

aww humbug, offensive riling chat debates are what makes the internet enjoyable *was a troll in another life*

[Tril]

*Chuckles*

[leeeroy_jenkins]

I know it's not really my place to butt in with this, as it's probably been beaten to death in the topic already, but... Why do certain people have problems with preds of a certain kind getting eaten? It happens naturally in the world all the time. Sure, you won't see a rabbit eating a wolf or a goldfish eating a crocodile, but other preds will eat a fallen pred member.

And no, I'm not taking sides here. Just wondering why some people see that as something bad.

some people will have some association between certain species and certain types of personalities and i suppose dont like to see character types that they associate with dominance being in a submissive role. its just a matter of personal tastes

[Eka]

Too many things

Break that down to one at a time and I might answer you.

some people will have some association between certain species and certain types of personalities and i suppose dont like to see character types that they associate with dominance being in a submissive role. its just a matter of personal tastes

Pretty much.

I think we're all being just as stubborn as he is... maybe if we try and forgive, he may realize what got everyone so upset, and simmer down? A problem is nevre completely one-sided^_^

What you see here is after almost a year of frustration dealing with him, starting to releases here. Of course. I'm not going to wait a year until i deal with him. If people felt insulted, that is when I do something. Period. I'm not trying to be rightous, I'm not trying to be saint. I'm not here to bring you truth. This community is about entertainment and it should be entertaining, not insulting.

And for those of you thanking Snake as though a great injustice was set right, please keep in mind that this was not some 'victory' for you. It was a total, pathetic, embarassing defeat that you were unable to handle your own emotional misgivings and needed someone to censor the big mean man making all those big mean internet posts about you.

The reason why you can't just ask everyone to ignore something is because the human behind the keyboard do have feeling. Inaddition, Inaction means you allow him to continues, and if you allow him to do the same thing, you allow everyone else to keep doing the same thing.
For another word, Inaction make it worst. If you care about your community, the least you can do is speak up. Given, I am disappointed at many people the way they responded to Drac, but balance sometime is hard to grip. You can not expect everyone to be a machine, turning off and on emotion like on off switch. Nor can you expect everyone to be level head, unemotional, intelligent and careful at all time.

Simply put Drac, your opinions are uncouth, uncalled for, unfounded, and unwelcome.

That is a little heavy, but some of that is agreed. I personally don't find his opinions unwelcome. I'm happy to see him contribute. The problem is how he actively use instulting phase toward other's preferences. Nobody wanted to tell him what he like suck. I still rememeber how he started the whole thing a year ago. It is when he started telling people "This is better cause those other one are unrealistic". Every post he made from then one felt like a Pepsi commerical. He constantly make subtle or obvious attack toward any other kind of "vore" out there.

To call people childish after you used a particularly aggravating manner of conveying your information is to for lack of a better example poke a tiger in the nose with a stick. Sure poking with a stick is just minorly annoying but since you do obviously have a keen intellect (as shown by your grammar and spelling being far superior to mine) should not consider the rending tiger to be doing something wrong as it was the expected reaction.

And yes, that is exactly what I am talking about when he make subtle or obvious attack toward any other kind of vore. Nobody asked him to judge anything. He insisted, so he got angry mod going after him, and he is still standing there wondering why people is angry. That, is true ignorance.
Opinion is welcomed, but respect everyone, don't insult. Instead of calling something 'childish'. Try use the word "Fantasy". Cause, you know, we all know it is a fantasy.

If you are still under the impression that you have committed absolutely no wrong and that your consequential alienation and banning from three otherwise completely unrelated forums were the results of three separate conspiracies by the entire message board communities, I expect to one day Google your name out of boredom and find you flaunting your credentials on your death bed.

Your attempt to wake him up is admirable. I hope he get the message.

[SeruOmen]

Geez these posts are long... can't we just try to stop arguing? I mean, I know this isn't a simple matter to drop, but won't everything be less stressful if we try to get along? Real life is stressful enough without this...

[Baz]

have never had a problem with "dragons as prey"

*Cough*Bullshit*cough*

[SeruOmen]

No one's trying for a real solution... I give up.

[Naman]

I'm kinda dissapointed that Drac got banned, but I'm not really suprised.

It's not hard to recognise how outlandish he was, but have you ever thought to, you know, ignore him? Is this really a universal trait of furries--that you must, no matter what, read word-for-word every single offensive post ever made, take whatever was said to heart, and get overdramatic about it?

Drac's post were deeply irrational and kinda nuts, but that's not what made him famous for trolling. It was the ridiculous aftermath that followed his posts, which involved many more players than Drac himself, that made him famous.

I knew the second I saw his name pop up as a new post on the BG forum that his thread would balloon to 50+ responses in a day, full of people whining, bitching, boo hoo hooing and threatening to leave. Are people really so oversensitive and insecure that you couldn't just, you know...let it go? Ignore it? Are you compelled to be dramatic every time something pops up that you disagree with?

Ultimately, Drac really wasn't your average troll. At least he thoughtfully made his points, no matter how crazy they might have been. It was totally and completely in your power to simply ignore him if you didn't like his criticism. He wasn't banned for being a troll. He never spammed. He never used all caps. His posts were never inherently disruptive. He was banned because people were incapable of reading his posts without helplessly spiraling towards mental and emotional oblivion.

And for those of you thanking Snake as though a great injustice was set right, please keep in mind that this was not some 'victory' for you. It was a total, pathetic, embarassing defeat that you were unable to handle your own emotional misgivings and needed someone to censor the big mean man making all those big mean internet posts about you.

The tendency to not ignore attacks and attempt to defend one's self is a human trait. I guarantee you that if you can find a reasonably large, under-moderated group on anything, you will be able to get pretty similar results to the BG bullshit if you know the right ways to attack people there. There are some people out there who can ignore such things and let them slide, and that's great for them. However, most people--yes, people, not just furries--are going to get pretty ticked off when they or someone they respect or care about is being insulted and/or otherwise attacked. In a perfect world, we could all just ignore crap like this, or better yet, not start it in the first place. In the real world, we have moderators who are supposed to deal with this sort of crap, instead of letting it keep happening over and over and over.

As someone with plenty of experience dealing with trolls and being one, I can tell you with certainty that there are different classes of trolling. The ones you mention are the lower-class of trolling. The "joyride" trolls. They're just people randomly spamming and leaving inane comments for shits and giggles. There are also high-class trolls. Intellectual sorts who are typically angry with a community for some reason, and want to cause trouble to them. These "high trolls" work by actually thinking about what they say before they say it. They say what they know will get as big a rise out of people as possible, and they do it in such a way as to not blatantly give away the fact that they're trolling. This makes it harder to justify banning them, even though it doesn't take long for most people to figure out they're a troll.

Huh. You know, if I didn't know any better, that might mean the post I replied to was a troll. Naw, couldn't have been. There was no all-caps. HERE WE ARE NOW, IS THIS BETTER? HOO! THIS IS KINDA FUN, AND I DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT LOSING MY VOICE!

[Eka]

No one's trying for a real solution... I give up.

This is more or less a thread to let people voice their opinon. We don't have an issue to deal with. So I'm not sure what solution you are looking for. I'm gonna wait till Strega respond to this before making any other action. We will see how it goes.

[Naman]

No one's trying for a real solution... I give up.

People want to discuss this issue. It's a major, ongoing issue. You haven't offered anyone a realistic solution, just insubstantial "advice" that sounds like it was quoted from children's movies. If it bugs you, you could always, y'know, stop reading it. It's a forum thread that you willfully must click on a link to to see, not some blocks of text being shown on the main page.

People are doing what they can, and what they must. Mostly, I think people are just venting, and letting out all the crap that built up over a long period of time because of this issue. Let them have their release, and everything should calm down again in due time.

[Strega]

Drac, If I stopped drawing every sort of prey that offended people, there wouldn't be much for me to draw. I would at the very least have to stop drawing dragon prey, griffon prey, dolphin prey, all sorts of fox prey, bunny prey and tiger prey. That's just the laundry list of species that people have sent me mail about. At conventions people have advanced other species as no-go areas. But for every person who dislikes seeing dragons (or whatever) get eaten, there is another who loves to see it. I will not delve into the almost religious feeling some people have toward dragons; there are people who feel that way about wolves and werewolves, too, and that doesn't stop me from drawing the occasional wolf prey.

I am an agnostic and I could not care less that dragons were holy to some religions. My opinion on this would change if I were living in a totalitarian state with enforced, pro-dragon state religion, but I don't. Likewise, my use of a character similarly named to a Hindu god is simply parody. No insult to any current or former religion was intended -- it was just an interesting character to draw.

I know that the personal responsibility is a dying art, but you could choose not to look. You do not so choose; this is your right. Now, people gave you a hard time when you first arrived on the board. Part of this was unjustified, and yes, people sprang to my defense more vigorously than they probably should have, but you contributed to the problem by sinking not just to the level of your critics, but sinking still lower. Had you simply let threads die, things would have not gotten so heated. Instead you replied to every single post and vigorously insulted anyone who disagreed with you. You soon had the reputation of an abusive, immature person who lashed out at anyone who disagrees with him -- much the same thing you accuse me of.

Now, I tried to ignore you, and for a while you stopped posting your thuggish little diatribes. Then Galis asked me to draw a picture, and I suggested a threesome with the skunkette lamia sisters. Galis is extremely fond of them. Now, I made an error when I drew his large form, but he was sufficiently happy with the sketch that he let me carry on. Perhaps he was merely being nice, since I was myself very fond of the sketch. I probably should have simply withdrawn the sketch and started another, since I suspected at the time that he was slanting his response so to be nice to me. However, I draw to have fun. It is not always a rational process. In the end the drawing was completed, and he was happy with it. I won't draw his large form as prey again, but he was quite pleased with the result. During the drawing of this pic I realized that it would incite you, but I am not going to censor my art to please one person unless that person is a very good friend.

You will note that I did not respond to your reply to the drawing, as it rattled on in your usual way about realism, the power of these fantasy creatures you expouse, and how the dragon should have won. The usual stuff, and stuff I stopped replying to weeks ago. A few other people jumped in, but I stayed out of it because time and again you have proven impossible to reason with. At this point all was well; you are entitled to your opinion.

Where you exceeded the bounds of good taste was in your creation of the story. It is extremely rude to use others' characters without their permission. Even so, I chose not to reply. Others did...and in practically every reply to every other person's post, you insulted me. A clear pattern of abuse was there. This is why you got banned -- and especially for threatening BBB directly. You were not banned for your opinions regarding dragons and reptiles, but because at least on the BG board, you became a thug and a bully, unwilling to allow others their fantasies but instead trying to enforce only your own view of what should be drawn. Ironically, you were more the "furry nazi" ("Scaly nazi"?) than I ever was.

I have learned some useful things from you. You explained to me that a bloated animal should show skin through the fur. I had not accepted this, but eventually you convinced me, as can be seen in the recent and very silly 'Oops' series, where Pamiuq's belly skin becomes visible as he swells up. You also provided some nice info about reptile and whale eating habits, digestion, and so on. All useful and valuable material.

However, you seem constitutionally unable to back off when someone disagrees with you. An almost monomaniacal attention to detail can be a good thing, but it can make for frustrating conversations. Thus we see your hammering the same point home again and again, even after the artist in question (me) explained that I am perfectly happy with the other approach. It got tiresome, it got frustrating, and coupled with the hate you spat at anyone who refused to see things your way, it made the board much less fun to visit.

Every story has two sides. I and we (the board goers) were to blame for the incidents too. However, when every single incident involves one individual, it stands to reason that this person should be persuaded to take a break from the board. So it has come to pass. And to bring this tiresome incident to a close, I'm locking the thread before Eka does. 83

-- Strega