Cartovore 2 Beta 2.012 Update

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What would you like to see next in Cartovore 2?

More single-player content (enemies, missions, etc.)
50
27%
Multiplayer (Which may include a simple matchmaking server)
18
10%
Starter decks for Angels and Fae
25
14%
Some semblance of play balance
9
5%
Nothing--start working on VRPG 2, dammit.
76
41%
Nothing--finish Shells, dammit.
4
2%
Other (specify below)
3
2%
 
Total votes : 185

Re: Cartovore 2 Beta 2.012 Update

Postby Halcyon » Tue Oct 13, 2009 4:27 pm

Halcyon wrote:Hey all. I use the Card Editor alot to make my own cards, which is buckets of fun, but I noticed that whatever I put in the INTESTINEQUOTE value field never really shows up anywhere. It looks like it's supposed to when a swallowed character faints, but that's not really the case :0

Is it just me? Lol


Heh, I figured out a way...
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Re: Rule of thumb

Postby Revx_Z » Wed Oct 14, 2009 5:45 pm

Duamutef wrote:Premium may indeed make a difference; it may actually be what's causing the bug.

And yes, it's possible to get Fayzee. At least, it should to be. You can double check by opening "startingset.txt" in the card editor and checking her rarity; unless it's more than 100, you should be able to get her. Looking at the file I have, it looks like her rarity is 60, which is uncommon but not super rare.

Given the size of the starting set, I'm guessing you'd statistically have to buy about 700 cards before you'd have better than even odds of having any given rarity 60 card. (I don't know how to do the actual math; the way rarity works is it's basically a chance that you'll have to "re-roll" if the card gets picked. The game picks a random card, then generates a random number. If that number is below the card's rarity, it will pick another random card and try again. So if a card's rarity is 0, you will always get it if it's the first card picked. If it's rarity is 80, there is an 80% chance that the game will chuck it and go for a different card. Fayzee is 60, so she'll get hucked 60% of the time. However, every card that isn't Fayzee also has a chance of getting tossed, which gives you that many more chances to get her, so it's not a straight ratio...)

I looked at my blog today, noted that I had referred to this calculation somewhat ignorantly, and decided to start getting to grips with it. Showing my work in case anyone wants to check. Code used to calculate total commonality from file will be provided on request.
The "commonality", or percent chance that you will keep a card, varies from 2 to 100 and is 40 for Fayzee. There are a total of 326 cards in the starting set. Their total commonality is 24485 (average about 75 per card).
When the game generates a card, first there's a [LABEL 1] one in 326 chance of getting Fayzee, then a 40% chance of keeping her, and 60% chance of re-rolling, in which case there's a [GOTO LABEL 1].
This is an infinite sum. The intermediate form is: 1/326*0.4 + 1/326*0.6*1/326*0.4 + 1/326*0.6*1/326*0.6*1/326*0.4 + ...
Proper form for dealing with an infinite sum: 0.4 * 1/326 * (1 + (0.6*1/326) + (0.6*1/326)^2 + (0.6*1/326)^3 + ...)
= 0.4 * 1/326 * (1/(1-(0.6*1/326)))
= 0.4 * 1/326 * 1.00184388
= 0.00122925629 or about 1/813.5, which is close to the 1 in 700 estimated above. However, I have yet to account for the fact that about 25% of other cards will be rejected, which increases this chance to about 1 in 651. This last bit isn't quite rigorous because I don't know if I can use that average that way. >.>
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Re: Cartovore 2 Beta 2.012 Update

Postby maleperduis » Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:57 pm

Well I think it can be calculated as follows:

Success - A - B - C - Failure

"Success" means getting Fayzee, "Failure" means not getting Fayzee. A is when you've picked Fayzee and you're rolling to see if she's accepted or rejected, B is when you're rolling to see which card you get, C is when you've picked a different card and you're rolling to see if she's accepted or rejected. For the value of each, I'll use the probability that you succeed when you're at that point. So you get the equations:

A = (0.4 * 1) + (0.6 * B) -->
A = 0.4 + 0.6B

B = (1/326)A + (325/326)C

C = (0.75* 0) + (0.25*B) -->
C = 0.25B

So that's pretty simple to solve. I've done it here with needlessly high level of accuracy:
Sub the third equation into the second:

B = (1/326)A + (325/326)*0.25B
B(1 - (325*0.25/326)) = (1/326)A
B(326 - 325*0.25) = A
A = 244.75 * B
B = A/244.75

Sub that into the first (you could really just skip this, since you know A's going to be very close to 0.4):

A = 0.4 + 0.6*(A/244.75)

A = 0.4 + 0.002451A
0.997549A = 0.4
A = 0.401

Sub back into B:

B = 0.401/244.75 = 0.001638 which is actually around 1/611

The only slightly questionable bit is whether you can just use a single value for C. I'm pretty sure you can if you say that C represents both the picking another card step and the rolling for it step, in which case a simple mean seems adequate.


Just out of interest, which cards have really low commonalities, like below 10?
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Re: Cartovore 2 Beta 2.012 Update

Postby Revx_Z » Thu Oct 15, 2009 12:58 am

pseudo wrote:Just out of interest, which cards have really low commonalities, like below 10?

Aqua Helix, 10
Aqua Trinity, 3
Blue Adamant Armor, 10
Burning Helix, 10
Burning Trinity, 3
Dark Helix, 10
Dark Trinity, 3
Double or Nothing, 10
Dragon's Eye, 10
Eridassa, 2
Giant Faerie Honey, 2
Lissa the Flamechild, 10
Love, 10
Solar (IV), 5
Solar (III), 10
Star Helix, 10
Star Trinity, 3
Stone Helix, 10
Stone Trinity, 3
Storm Helix, 10
Storm Trinity, 3
Twins, 5
Whitefeather Ryu, 10

Eridassa and Giant Faerie Honey were the combo I used to beat Kathaint. :P (And Brightwind's Embrace.)

While looking through the list I also noticed that my count of 326 cards might have been wrong, and the total and average commonality too, because there are some cards with rarity 101 like Kathaint that can't be rolled, they just exist for the game to refer to when loading enemies. These are: Glade, Kathaint, Lendara's Rain of Fire, Mana Node, Nifirica, Nifirica's Lash (I, II, III, IV).
Not sure how to calculate this.
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Re: Cartovore 2 Beta 2.012 Update

Postby maleperduis » Thu Oct 15, 2009 6:45 am

Ah, interesting.

Wouldn't you just calculate that by subtracting the number of unobtainable cards from the total number of cards, and their rarities from the total rarity?
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Re: Cartovore 2 Beta 2.012 Update

Postby Revx_Z » Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:06 pm

Probably. If that gives 317 cards with a total commonality of 24490, that pushes average rarity down to about 23.

What would a general formula look like to go from rarity to actual chance of getting?
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Re: Cartovore 2 Beta 2.012 Update

Postby four_fleets » Sun Dec 04, 2011 9:22 am

RIP Duamutef
  I wonder if you'll visit This thread?  



I finally found out how to use BBCcode.
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