Draft Horse Unbirth (Discussion)

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Re: Draft Horse Unbirth (Discussion)

Postby Jora » Fri Jun 05, 2015 2:43 pm

Finaly, someone not flipping out. :)

symbiote01 wrote:1. The actual procedure would involve a great deal of time and effort to soften and stretch the animal to enter. The subject, too would need to be conditioned to survive in a very cramped condition. Such a thing, in real life, would endanger both host and subject (chance of rupture, chance of infection, chance of suffocation, etc.) and would be morally reprehensible. But for the purpose of hypothetical discussion, given enough time, it probably could be done.


agreed, Hypothetically possible, but would take a great deal of care, planning and monitoring.

i'm not going to enter the moral reprehensibility discussion because those tend to be at best a absurdly touchy subject and not only enters into the fringes where this discussion should be closed but also could potentially destroy the discussion or lead it off on a tangent that would also destroy the discussion so lets just stick to the science ok?

symbiote01 wrote:2,3. These are vestigial organs of the fetus, not the mother. This would require genetic manipulation of the subject to spontaneously grow a new placenta, umbilical cord and amniotic sac. Such a thing is not really feasible in real life as far as I know. If there IS research into this subject, it would certainly fall into the 'morally reprehensible' category and be a deterrent to proper, useful research of this kind (stem cell, etc.).


Had Not realized that about the placenta, umbilical cord and amniotic sac myself, in that case such a thing "could" Technically be grown to suit (I have seen videos about that), the remaining problem would be in getting the umbilical cord attached and functional, Possible but I agree not very feasible (at least now).

at the same time I am not sure on how this would affect research of this kind, it could go the other way, it could be applied for eg to technology's to transplant fetuses or grow them artificially in certain medical emergency's where the fetus would otherwise die.

symbiote01 wrote:4,5. The subject would need to be genetically modified to be accepted by the host. It might be necessary to genetically modify the host as well, to find some 'common ground'. This currently has the potential to be in the realm of scientific possibility (human ears grown on the back of rats, goats that have spider silk in their milk, human hearts grown in a pig uterus, etc.).


Would Need to be Genetically modified to be accepted? Not necessarily in my opinion, for eg recipients of transplanted organs (some of which are from animals) in most cases have no rejection problems due to the anti-rejection medications they are prescribed, also, their are other potential methods you could use to "trick" the the system into ok'ing everything but they are incredibly theoretical and would take to long to write out at the moment.

symbiote01 wrote:From a 'real life' point of view, it is very much too dangerous a thing to consider, both for host and subject. At this time, it could only end in tragedy.


this discussion is not entering into that perspective, i would like to keep it is still mostly fantasy based, so please don't go there.

on the Danger factor, it would depend on the level of technology, science, etc that is available, would it be dangerous? yes, how dangerous? unknown.

symbiote01 wrote:Now, if this conversation was about the concept of manipulating a creature to be able to carry offspring of another species- this is a fairly hot topic right now. There are scientists out there trying to re-create an extinct species (woolly mammoth) using an elephant as a surrogate, for example. In this case, the two are different but closely related species.


that is actually part of the basis of this.
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Re: Draft Horse Unbirth (Discussion)

Postby mouseyman » Sat Jun 06, 2015 12:48 am

Horses and people are quite a few rungs apart on the evolutionary ladder, so you're talking about nigh shutting down the immuno response, not just suppressing. Sterile environment would be a must.. the whole thing would have to be done in a bubble with teams of scientist preparing the unbirthee while walking around in those hazmat suits XD

now hybird dna manipulation is a real thing.. they have gotten really good at splicing so its possible you could genetically engineer a mare with enough human DNA that it might not reject. or vice versa the unbirthee may under go gene therapy toward equine status.

unbirthee would need to be unusually small. ( ironically "jockey size" would be ideal)

one thing we never really consider in unbirth is the passage through the cervix into the uterus. Massive drug enhanced dilation would be required to get the cervix open enough and the mare would have to be HUGE. the bigger the better, I'd say half again as big as the largest breed horse that exists today, but again this could be achieved through genetic manipuluation and breeding.
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Re: Draft Horse Unbirth (Discussion)

Postby Jora » Sun Jun 07, 2015 7:28 pm

mouseyman wrote:Horses and people are quite a few rungs apart on the evolutionary ladder, so you're talking about nigh shutting down the immuno response, not just suppressing. Sterile environment would be a must.. the whole thing would have to be done in a bubble with teams of scientist preparing the unbirthee while walking around in those hazmat suits XD


Not sure the immune system would have to be dampened that much, they don't with transplant recipients, even ones that have had transplants from animals.

mouseyman wrote:now hybird dna manipulation is a real thing.. they have gotten really good at splicing so its possible you could genetically engineer a mare with enough human DNA that it might not reject. or vice versa the unbirthee may under go gene therapy toward equine status.


I haven't heard/read much of anything about that, so I don't have much if any working knowledge on it.

mouseyman wrote:unbirthee would need to be unusually small. ( ironically "jockey size" would be ideal)


Skeptical on this, have you ever seen the size of a newborn Clydesdale foal? they are almost as big as adult horses of more common (smaller) breeds.

mouseyman wrote:one thing we never really consider in unbirth is the passage through the cervix into the uterus. Massive drug enhanced dilation would be required to get the cervix open enough and the mare would have to be HUGE. the bigger the better, I'd say half again as big as the largest breed horse that exists today, but again this could be achieved through genetic manipuluation and breeding.


I don't know what kind of dosage that could take that would take a great deal of research I will have to do later, but another way could be if you could chemically mimic a birth.
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Re: Draft Horse Unbirth (Discussion)

Postby All_The_Way_In » Fri Oct 07, 2016 2:48 am

I must agree with your position on this matter wholeheartedly. I have reality checked this matter to the point that I have determined that this is certainly not going to ever happen. Let's file this case under No Way.
Give me unbirth from either oriface and the catgirls lives.....

If evolution only did give the ability to UB. Oh well, back to reality......... :(
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