Collab?

[Elle]

I'd like to first state that I'm not trying to insult or hurt anyone's feelings, so I'm sorry if I come across that way. XP

Look, its clear you don't like my idea, I have no idea why at the moment, its exactly like the giving players choice PnP you loosely described and i before that about 3 times, but I'm tired of listening to you insult it like its the next DQ clone, If you want to judge my game like some RPGmaker dime a dozen no matter much effort I've put into proving and explaining to you otherwise then thats your choice,

Make it fun to play and fun to enjoy the vore at the same time. =3 Turn based does not do this.

Youve basicaly told me every game ive ran involving vore was not enjoyable, I'd have to dissagree

I hope whatever game you guys churn out is good because for all my communicative effort Ive put into this thread, responses haven't been anywhere as clear as i would hope, communication is kind of a corner stone in any project involving more than 1 person, and the level of communication going on here isnt looking so hot

It's that I don't know how your approach differentiates from the average turn-based, pressing-the-same-button-repeatedly style. The fact is simply that when I play a game like one of those, I tend to hit the accept button most of the time, simply trying to auto-attack my way through battles...which almost always works. There's that, and there's the fact that you sometimes have to stop moving forward just to grind things for levels. >_< If you could suggest a good turn based RPG to me, I'd gladly go look at it, but right now, what you're saying just seems to be, "Let's do the old system". I'm willing to compromise with some things, but standard, turn-based battles are too much.

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As for the method of game creation, it might be good to get into more than one group here, like has been said, one working on RPGMaker stuff, and another making something completely new. Though some like RPGMaker, and I've enjoyed toying with it a bit, it's far too...limited for my tastes. I'd rather be able to use my skills. That, and I like the control over what I'm making, even if it does come with a little less speed of creation.

The 2D vs. 3D thing really doesn't matter too much to me, and for nostalgia's sake, I'd likely even go with 2D. As I've said repeatedly though, we need a good artist. If we can find a great 3D artist, wonderful! If not, we'll probably end up with a 2D artist, as there are excellent ones around.

Also, I have no real preference between those pics, save for the fact that the bottom one is fuzzy with compression artifacts beyond belief, but as you said, that really doesn't matter. That, and the fact that it's just a tad easier to make the bottom one move.

As has been said before, it would be good to move this over to some kind of messenger or chat. I'd suggest the chat here, but it's so congested usually... Hrmm, does anyone else have a suggestion for that?

[ImaginaryZ]

Lots of interesting words typed, so here's what I gather so far:

1. 2D game mechanics seems to be preferred. This is good! This is good AND fun, and simple enough. Think OdinSphere or Aquaria, or hell, even VFighter or barbftr.
2. 2D + 3D Graphics are preferred, meaning OdinSphere and Aquaria style. If you want examples, refer to Aquaria or ask me for some.
3. Requires proprietary C/C++ system. Not too bad, let the programmers fight about memory managers and OOP-out-the-ass XD

+++4. New issue is this requires a custom skeletal editor (cakewalk) and/or exporters from your favorite 3D programs. (write them yourself, or else use blender and use my exporters)

+++5. Proprietary level editor required as well (medium)

I like these decisions, as they are somewhat related to what I am doing currently, I've done/been doing both of these.

About the 'game', yeah, everyone has 'game ideas', but, remember, ideas are worth nothing. Work is the only thing that matters, and until people see drawn-out screens and depictions of the game, or demos, they're meaningless and just talk. Gotta walk the walk, kids.

In other words, don't worry about clashing, confrontation. Arguments strengthen defenses and improve both products. In a professional environment, this happens all the time, and it is never personal. For example, someone criticizing your artwork because it was out of proportion, well, it IS, so you go and fix it. Or someone whining about your memory manager being too hard to use, well, it WAS, so I fixed it. Or even someone dissing your idea because it sucks, well, maybe it does, but you might ask them for clarification. Conflict breeds progress, so just be professional. It's all in good fun anyways, so don't take it personally unless they are physically being mean to you.

Aaand yeah, with people who jack off to this kinda stuff, we have to combat severe laziness, apathy, and agression, which is as 11millionseconds said, not enough indians. Maybe they can do that while the work.

Again, sounds like we need some demos for the mechanics. Let's see those colored boxes, people!

-Z

PS - Skype works for audio chat. I use Adium aka YIM, MSN, AIM.

[Epsilon_Dark]

Just pout me where you put me Lets just get it under the way allready

[Superblah]

I have a feeling we just won't be able to agree on much. That's what I've concluded so far. We all have the skills, but from what I know about people that bothered to spend the time to get the skills, they usually know or think they know exactly what it is they want to do or make with them. For us that simply means too many chiefs, not enough indians. Which is why I'm already saying I'm not going to be a major force of leadership for this. We all want to cram our idea in the one remaining game idea slot and then have other people work on it with us. I'm going to say right now that that isn't going to happen. And the harder we all try to do that, the harder we'll all fail. It's just like that movie about Nash. Four brunettes and a blonde walk into a bar. All of the guys want to go after the blonde, but if they do, they all get in each others' way and get nothing. If instead they each go for one of the brunettes at least they each might get a brunette. Same thing here. What we need is a brainstorm session, not a forum of pre-conceptualized game concepts. The former means progress while the latter just hurts feelings. A big part of the difference is we need to discuss this in real-time, not in the forum posts. Forum posts tend to be long for the sake of being inclusive and thus err on the side of presenting too many ideas to be shot down at once. We also don't have a place to scribble down pros and cons which would make this all easier.

While I half agree with this, I'd like to point out all of the ideas currently in this forum section, theres a rather large influx and half of them aren't that bad, Its unfortunate that I cant help unless its my project but Like those people with ideas in other threads, they only have so much time to commit and theres barely enough for our own, Larger groups working on projects can finish them faster if theres communication and enough free time and will to work, and I'd hope that at least half of these yummy ideas will be brought to fruitation, while i understand where your coming from and I agree that multiple projects cant be tackled all at once, I dont feel like we should just drop so many good ideas and let them go to waste.

I'd like to first state that I'm not trying to insult or hurt anyone's feelings, so I'm sorry if I come across that way. XP

Look, its clear you don't like my idea, I have no idea why at the moment, its exactly like the giving players choice PnP you loosely described and i before that about 3 times, but I'm tired of listening to you insult it like its the next DQ clone, If you want to judge my game like some RPGmaker dime a dozen no matter much effort I've put into proving and explaining to you otherwise then thats your choice,

Make it fun to play and fun to enjoy the vore at the same time. =3 Turn based does not do this.

Youve basicaly told me every game ive ran involving vore was not enjoyable, I'd have to dissagree

I hope whatever game you guys churn out is good because for all my communicative effort Ive put into this thread, responses haven't been anywhere as clear as i would hope, communication is kind of a corner stone in any project involving more than 1 person, and the level of communication going on here isnt looking so hot

It's that I don't know how your approach differentiates from the average turn-based, pressing-the-same-button-repeatedly style. The fact is simply that when I play a game like one of those, I tend to hit the accept button most of the time, simply trying to auto-attack my way through battles...which almost always works. There's that, and there's the fact that you sometimes have to stop moving forward just to grind things for levels. >_< If you could suggest a good turn based RPG to me, I'd gladly go look at it, but right now, what you're saying just seems to be, "Let's do the old system". I'm willing to compromise with some things, but standard, turn-based battles are too much.

------------------------------

As for the method of game creation, it might be good to get into more than one group here, like has been said, one working on RPGMaker stuff, and another making something completely new. Though some like RPGMaker, and I've enjoyed toying with it a bit, it's far too...limited for my tastes. I'd rather be able to use my skills. That, and I like the control over what I'm making, even if it does come with a little less speed of creation.

The 2D vs. 3D thing really doesn't matter too much to me, and for nostalgia's sake, I'd likely even go with 2D. As I've said repeatedly though, we need a good artist. If we can find a great 3D artist, wonderful! If not, we'll probably end up with a 2D artist, as there are excellent ones around.

Also, I have no real preference between those pics, save for the fact that the bottom one is fuzzy with compression artifacts beyond belief, but as you said, that really doesn't matter. That, and the fact that it's just a tad easier to make the bottom one move.

As has been said before, it would be good to move this over to some kind of messenger or chat. I'd suggest the chat here, but it's so congested usually... Hrmm, does anyone else have a suggestion for that?

There usually inst a good turn based system in video games, I've already said that I'm trying to take turn based systems that work on paper and bring them to video games like D&D, Gurps, or some other system, I can only halfheartedly suggest the Neverwinter Nights series, but its a very bad example of D&D turn based gaming (infact, its only virtualy turn based) , what it DOES do right, is force you to put alot more thought into your actions to beat an encounter, and it does not have unlimited XP (except for nwn2's Zehir expansion) so you wont be grinding with random battles,

I'll just simplify my game experience down to this, Its trying to be a table top RPG as a video game, just about any choice you could think of your character can do it, just like s/he could in a game like D&D, swing your sword at directions you like, discover new metals, paint works of art, farm your land, rule your city, harvest exotic minerals, write books, tinker with magic, thats why its such a big project and I'm searching around for help when i get the chance

http://www.wikicheats.com/images/d/df/F ... enshot.jpg

If this picture represents everything you think about in a turn based RPG then it represents everything my game is not (except that when a result is not certain people roll initiative and decide what their character will do in succession) And maybe thats not enough for you, some people hate video game RPGs and Table top gaming, if you have to see action and loath letting just numbers and strategy without reflex determine things even at the cost of nearly limitless choice, thats okay, But It does become frustrating when you assume a form of entertainment is old and archaic(I mean table top gaming not 'Modern console RPG'*shudders*) just because your characters stats, personality, and strategy alone decide the result, not nimble fingers.

If you really want to imagine what my game might be like playing try picking up a group of people to play a table top game, and then imagine it with graphics.
If i could i would just give you the design doc, but Its just not anywhere close to being finished and no part of the game will be until probably the end of this year assuming I work by my lonesome,

About the 'game', yeah, everyone has 'game ideas', but, remember, ideas are worth nothing. Work is the only thing that matters, and until people see drawn-out screens and depictions of the game, or demos, they're meaningless and just talk. Gotta walk the walk, kids.

again I disagree, Designing up a game concept is first priority, you can walk the walk all you like, but if you don't know where your going, you wont get anywhere, Chances are the vore community is so starved you can make DGVrpg 2 and people will love it, but creating a game that pleases your target audience is more than just doing what they want, I would really suggest coming up with, or adopting someone else's idea before people start drawing and coding unless you want to create a game with the depth of donkey kong.

[dokudoku]

Well as Rayen stated earlier, this is really more of a head count to see how interested the community is and who would be willing to work on the project. Interestingly enough, I've yet to see much of the actual community express their opinion on the game. I would actually like to see what kind of game the community wants to see. I actually think an over head, turn base strategy battle system like in Arc The Lad and Final Fantasy Tactics would be a good direction to take (that's just me though). In terms of difficulty, I might suggest including a difficulty option with bonuses for those who choose a harder setting.

[Superblah]

Well as Rayen stated earlier, this is really more of a head count to see how interested the community is and who would be willing to work on the project. Interestingly enough, I've yet to see much of the actual community express their opinion on the game. I would actually like to see what kind of game the community wants to see. I actually think an over head, turn base strategy battle system like in Arc The Lad and Final Fantasy Tactics would be a good direction to take (that's just me though). In terms of difficulty, I might suggest including a difficulty option with bonuses for those who choose a harder setting.

wouldn't that defeat the purpose of choosing a harder setting?

[Elle]

@ImaginaryZ - Pretty much everything there sounds about right. =P However, as was said, we need to figure out what we're doing before we start making stuff. ^-^ I've got my little portal level up so far, and I think I could probably convert that to 2D...Probably. X3 I might be able to get a demo of it up sometime, though we'll just have to see. =P

@SuperBlah - Alright, I understand you a bit better now, though the whole question becomes how you manage something like that... Though, I guess it could be done, now that I think about it. Still, I'm kind of leaning towards real time myself, at least for this project. *shrugs*

@SuperBlah about dokudoku - He might be suggesting things like... Oh, maybe extra scenes, easter eggs, and other such goodies for those that play harder modes. It'd make sense that way, of course, since giving the player harder enemies but making them tougher as well cancels out. =P

[Gojo]

From what I've seen in the games made so far, they all have females as preds. Of course this is not in any way a bad thing, but male pred fans have been left out in the cold when it comes to vore games (dokudoku's been making promises with his game but I get suspicious of him sometime ). I know it is not everyone's cup of tea, but a collab should be a symbol of unity between the game makers and try to appeal to a good amount of the community (I'm the fine one to talk since I'm not a game maker ). That being said I feel the community, including myself, doesn't really care too much about what gets put into a game so long as it has vore. I agree that adding difficulty levels to the game and giving rewards to those who play on a harder setting is a good idea. obviously you are going to want to get to the good stuff right away and enjoy the vore scenes as they play out. However, when you give extra to those who have the patients and skill to beat the game on a higher difficulty, it evens out the playing field and gives it a higher replay value.

I myself would love to see a live action kind of game if it ever gets made, I think it adds more "oomph" to it and makes it more enjoyable.

[Epsilon_Dark]

*eyes gojo, Takesa breath* DAMN thats the best way i hered it said At akk

[dokudoku]

dokudoku's been making promises with his game but I get suspicious of him sometime .

Oh so you think I'm a lair eh? That's it, NO GAME FOR YOU!!! *hits head with wooden spoon* XD

Well, I can't make any true promises with what I put into my game, but I can say it is on my to-do-list so maybe that's enough for you :p

[Mokaria]

I was going to post but I felt afraid to as I heard jumping into a thread of arguing game designers can cause loss of limbs. Please for the love of everything if you make a collab don't make it with a play period where you are pretty much only prey. Some I have played where you have to learn the ability to pred and even then it seems way to in favor of you losing to please the prey minded. However something interesting like the ability to choose between a much stronger base character with less growth or a much weaker starter with more growth would be interesting.

Also please do not stick a gender onto the main character or have two main characters of separate genders. I guess over and over again what I'm saying is, as a game made in collaboration of the communities game designers I hope to see a large amount of interest covered so that it is more a game for the community rather then any single group.

Really I'm posting this cause through reading it all I did notice someone interested in what community members thought of this whole thing. If my post doesn't fit here though or is disrupting feel free to pm to delete it. I've been pretty much tracking this topic since the first post and really wish I had some way more to help then just my $.02

As for turn based, real time, or whatever I don't really mind as long as the stats matter! Sorry I'm big on stats, as stats have always been the thing to separate the character from it's player in ability. I much more like the strategy in games of stats rather then the usual reflex test. Which is why I would also suggest some control on the way your character progresses, with never being able to achieve any sort of full power. Keep it limited so the player has to choose where their strengths will be placed.

This is all just my opinion and therefore even if my wording may sound like orders it's just the way I talk, and always a suggestion.

[Superblah]

I was going to post but I felt afraid to as I heard jumping into a thread of arguing game designers can cause loss of limbs. Please for the love of everything if you make a collab don't make it with a play period where you are pretty much only prey. Some I have played where you have to learn the ability to pred and even then it seems way to in favor of you losing to please the prey minded. However something interesting like the ability to choose between a much stronger base character with less growth or a much weaker starter with more growth would be interesting.

Also please do not stick a gender onto the main character or have two main characters of separate genders. I guess over and over again what I'm saying is, as a game made in collaboration of the communities game designers I hope to see a large amount of interest covered so that it is more a game for the community rather then any single group.

Really I'm posting this cause through reading it all I did notice someone interested in what community members thought of this whole thing. If my post doesn't fit here though or is disrupting feel free to pm to delete it. I've been pretty much tracking this topic since the first post and really wish I had some way more to help then just my $.02

As for turn based, real time, or whatever I don't really mind as long as the stats matter! Sorry I'm big on stats, as stats have always been the thing to separate the character from it's player in ability. I much more like the strategy in games of stats rather then the usual reflex test. Which is why I would also suggest some control on the way your character progresses, with never being able to achieve any sort of full power. Keep it limited so the player has to choose where their strengths will be placed.

This is all just my opinion and therefore even if my wording may sound like orders it's just the way I talk, and always a suggestion.

Well, My game essentially does all that, since its an open world MMORPG project, It better right? arguments and debates for game design is going to happen, especially with a group of freelancers without the promise of wads of cash to hold them to a project, your post isn't out of line and you don't have to be afraid to post here again =3

also
Also please do not stick a gender onto the main character or have two main characters of separate genders.

whats your problem with gender? do we have to make a game where the main character is entirely androgynous to please?
while i agree that at least the gender of a main character these days should be decidable you seem to be against having any clear definition, thats rather limiting =/

@SuperBlah - Alright, I understand you a bit better now, though the whole question becomes how you manage something like that... Though, I guess it could be done, now that I think about it. Still, I'm kind of leaning towards real time myself, at least for this project. *shrugs*

well you know what my second suggestion is.
as for extra difficulty bonuses, just remember the more 'content' you keep from players of lesser skill, the more they'll resent you for it, keep it small.

[Mokaria]

@superblah.

Excuse me as I seem to not have made myself clear at the actual meaning of what I said. When I said do not stick a gender to the character I mean please do not make that the only gender you put in. So I mean don't stick the gender as female only or male only. Thus the reason why I said have two separate main characters or the choice of playing female or male. I do notice the mistake of my writing as it should have been something more like this.

also please do not stick only a single gender to the main character, or at least have two separate main characters of opposite gender. (like most dual storyline stuff but I much prefer some sort of designing of the MC)

Lol who would want to play an it?

[Elle]

I was going to post but I felt afraid to as I heard jumping into a thread of arguing game designers can cause loss of limbs. Please for the love of everything if you make a collab don't make it with a play period where you are pretty much only prey. Some I have played where you have to learn the ability to pred and even then it seems way to in favor of you losing to please the prey minded.

Don't worry about it, and I know what you mean. =P Vore Night in particular had multiple endings for losing to various creatures and being eaten, whereas there wasn't nearly as much in the way of description of your prey when you ate. However, most people around here are more focused on the prey side of things, so I'd figure it would be a large part... A bit of balancing might be in order, and maybe some options. Things like choosing how much detail you want to go into when you end up eating some prey. =P Maybe little sound effects when you walk, belly movement, and/or text. Of course, some might find this annoying and want to turn it off. It wouldn't be as bad to turn this sort of thing off, of course, since it wouldn't be changing things so much as just disabling them... We'll just have to see. X3

However something interesting like the ability to choose between a much stronger base character with less growth or a much weaker starter with more growth would be interesting.

This is somewhat interesting...but it would have to be done carefully. It might work for having different modes or something. Don't know if it'd work for sure though, at least without some serious tweaking, but thanks for the idea. =P

Also please do not stick a gender onto the main character, or at least have two main characters of separate genders. I guess over and over again what I'm saying is, as a game made in collaboration of the communities game designers I hope to see a large amount of interest covered so that it is more a game for the community rather then any single group.

You'd like a male and a female character, basically? Maybe even a herm/futa? =P This could probably be done, though it would involve having different dialogue in some places, and that might be just a bit of a pain... We'd have to plan for this from the start, of course, so we could get different tables of dialogue in there. Also, it's good you posted right before I did though, or I would have thought you didn't want any gender at all. X3

As for turn based, real time, or whatever I don't really mind as long as the stats matter! Sorry I'm big on stats, as stats have always been the thing to separate the character from it's player in ability. I much more like the strategy in games of stats rather then the usual reflex test. Which is why I would also suggest some control on the way your character progresses, with never being able to achieve any sort of full power. Keep it limited so the player has to choose where their strengths will be placed.

Hrmm, well, I'd go more for being light on stats, although using them to an extent. Obviously, we're going to have how hard you hit, how much damage you can take, and so on pretty much whatever we do here. I'd rather have a bit more action, myself, and I tend to steer more toward games like Zelda, SoM and the like. We definitely don't want this to be something like Ginormo Sword, where your sword has to be several hundred or even thousand levels before you can take on a certain enemy. o.o; I'd also like there to be a good bit of exploration, so... Well, the less there is level-up-wise, the more balanced the experience will be throughout, and the less need there'll be for grinding. After all, think of Zelda. It was hard to get to the point where that next dungeon you were going to was just SO hard to get through because you haven't leveled up enough or too easy because you've leveled too much. Also, going back to old areas could still be fun. =P

That said, I'm not declaring "NO!" to having more stats just yet. It's just that when a system has a lot of stats and when I spend more time sitting down and trying to decide whether I want 1 in strength or 1 in defense than I do playing, I tend not to enjoy the game as much. It seems more like work. *shrugs* Without knowing the system underlying everything as well, you don't know how much a certain stat will help. This is something that annoys me to NO end. How do I know that putting 1 into strength will give me as much benefit as 1 into defense? Will defense even help though, if things are hitting me for 2 or 3 HP? Will 1 in speed end up changing the flow of battle at all? If we were to do any kind of stat system like that, we need to have it be a bit more transparent.

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And, on a side note, the way I keep imagining this now is basically this: A top down or kind of angled view would be there when you're running around the map and interacting with NPCs, and when battling, you'd cut to a side view. Of course, I could also see the battling going on in the main view, which would work just as well. Of course, if we're doing it like that, we could even do simple 3D collision like you'd see in Paper Mario, Mario RPG, and so on. Hrmm, so hard to choose...

[Superblah]

And, on a side note, the way I keep imagining this now is basically this: A top down or kind of angled view would be there when you're running around the map and interacting with NPCs, and when battling, you'd cut to a side view. Of course, I could also see the battling going on in the main view, which would work just as well. Of course, if we're doing it like that, we could even do simple 3D collision like you'd see in Paper Mario, Mario RPG, and so on. Hrmm, so hard to choose...

If you want an action game why would you cut away to a different camera in battle mode?
Not even my turn based game will do that, It would ruin the immersion your supposed to get from wandering around and exploring in real time.

[Elle]

If you want an action game why would you cut away to a different camera in battle mode?
Not even my turn based game will do that, It would ruin the immersion your supposed to get from wandering around and exploring in real time.

Because 2D from the side allows for different methods of play than the top down and down at an angle would. It can make it simpler to control in battle for one. I know that doing it from the top down or at more of an angle would be better for exploration as well. The only games that do from-the-side exploration well are games in castles, dungeons, and other indoor areas. It's hard to have a natural area sprawl when up and down on the screen are really up and down, rather than forward and back. =P Really, the angle would give the most flexibility, though it would also be one of the most difficult to do camera-wise if we have any sort of multi-tiered area.

[Elle]

I'm bumping since it seems to have been unnoticed for a while here. Is anyone still up for this? =P

[ImaginaryZ]

Of course, I'm still up for it. Still working on my current 2D/3D platformer fighter. Just nothing new to report, unless someone has a good, working solution to this problem:

x. Given a large set of random unique 32 bit integers, create a data structure that uses minimal memory, that can behave as a set with insert( int ) remove ( int ) find ( int ) that occur as fast as possible. Internal ordering is irrelevant.
Hashes seem to fit the bill, but man they feel dirty. Anyone have a decent hashing function for integers? (Note, speed is priority so no hidden operations allowed, which sucks a lot, otherwise I'd just use STL! Assume you have Alloc(), Realloc() and Free())

[Elle]

Hrmm, yeah, using a hash table would probably be best for you there. A simple list would be too hard to search through normally, and a sorted array would take too long to add numbers in. A hash table would definitely be best it seems...

As for sorting the number in, if they're simply a bunch of integers, just divide what the number is by the number of buckets you have. Also, if you use 2, 4, 8, 16, or any of the other powers of two for your number of buckets, you should be able to shave some time off by bit shifting rather than modding the number.

[Superblah]

well, you guys have really yet to decide what it is you'll be doing, and without that, there isn't really much draw. the idea is to find something enough people can get behind and go with it before it all falls apart.