A new vore game - Small Tech Demo

[Elle]

Just between ourselves at the moment. I like small groups as well. Groups of three seem to work pretty well, as do groups of 2 and four. Having small groups helps, since you only have to communicate with a few people. ^-^

[ImaginaryZ]

You're bound to find plenty of examples on this site; But I can't recall one like you're thinking of, I'll go try and steal feather-hips (Gwendolyn <3) again for ya'

http://www.spriters-resource.com/psx_ps2/T.html

This looks interesting, and seems to be of a similar natured project; but I have NOT given this my stamp of approval, I just noticed it while googling for Odin Sphere Textures. View at your own risk.

http://www.allegro.cc/forums/thread/591322/670913

Fun stuff;

I'm using wxWidgets or SDL most of the time; If you want me to piece together a quick editor for making UVS animations, it wouldn't be that hard. If you do, lemme know some coding guidelines or somethin' can I can probably component-ize it right so you can 'just use it'. I'm more than willing to send you any of my code; I have lots of utilities that help me out a ton.

On that note; if anyone makes an editor, make sure the editor writes out some sort of 'plain text file' and not a binary file. Something like (special)XML is fine, but line-by-line delimited files are easier to read & work with. The point is, if we have a human readable text format that the editor makes & loads, then you can write any converter you want to turn that mess into a nice binary file that the game actually loads; thus saving the hassle of converting more than 1 format around.

Also, I think there are some kickass code snippets floating around for loading png's without any external library dependency, as well as loading .tga files. SDL has a simple enough, but lacking .bmp loader. I'd say use .tga or .png, just for the added alpha layer and 16 - 256 bit color support. I have a few, but I'm not messing with them at the moment. I generally use tga's for everything still, but I had to make my own format recently due to PVRTC and CMPE compression formats.

AND, even MORE cool things,
If you DO use the UVS style, here's something I didn't tell you about OdinSphere /UVS:

You can use Normal Maps / Bump maps.

So, instead of just 1 straight RGB painted image, you have 1 x RGB image and 1 x normal map; This way, you can give your 2D image the appearance of a relief, and basically simulate a flat 3D model. The only funny part, is you probably need the 3D model to generate the normal map anyways; or at least a copy of ZBrush!

There's some ramblings; take em' or leave em'!

-Z

[Kiyoa]

While I can't speak for the coding side of things, you posting that link to that sprite resource page was extremely helpful from my perspective. Definitely gives me some better ideas on how to approach the spriting. Thanks, I.Z.

[Elle]

Thanks for the sprites. =3 I think they should be a bit closer to what we're doing, and they've got some nice backgrounds to sample from too. ^-^

As for the coding... I believe I've used SDL before, but I don't remember much about it... I remember at least one of the functions, so...I'm pretty sure it's what i used in a coding project at one point in school. At the same time, I'm hesitant to use it. While it says it's cross platform, I wonder what exactly it does... Will it give me all the power that I need and am accustomed to? I'm sure it'll speed things up a little when it comes to making the game multi-platform, if I use it and we get that far. However...well, I guess it's a silly fear that it'll take some functions away that I've been doing up until now. o.o Also, I kind of like doing it manually, since I have complete control... Tough choice. o.o

As for getting an editor from you, once again, I don't know. X3 I'm tempted to say yes, but I want to make absolutely sure that it works with what we have, and I have a number of ideas on how to create the editor myself. There's that, and I kind of see this as a bit of a...learning experience. If I have someone else do it, I don't learn as much as if I just do it myself. =P

For the file formats, I was actually thinking of a couple myself, one that was simple text and another that was binary. I was going to put a simple one byte identifier at the start of each as well. That way, I can simply make the load/save functions able to input/output both versions. When we're sure that everything's down the way we'd like it, we simply convert the files and use the binaries for smaller size and faster loading. ^-^ I'd had that in my mind long before, because the ability to tweak things without an editor is always nice. X3

As for those code snippets, it'd be awesome if you could find some. o.o I've had code for TGA files for a while, but we decided on PNGs instead, thanks to the nice compression, alpha channel, and so on. I'm using libpng at the moment... I'd like it to be able to read in multiple types of png files though, so...it's gotta work for both RGB 24 bit depth and RGBA 32 bit depth, along with compression. The only thing is...well, right now this is working, so I almost don't want to mess it up. X3

Then we've got the bump maps. o.o If Kiyoa would be up for that, it might be nice, but...hrmm...it seems like it might be a bit much. Making models, creating bump maps for them, and animating them would take quite a while... Not to mention on my side where I have to implement them. I haven't tried it before, so I'd have to check out exactly how to do it... So many options. X3

Thanks for the ideas at any rate. Looks like I have a bit more to think through. =P

[ImaginaryZ]

Kiyoa:

Great! Glad that could help; If I run across more examples I'll post links up for ya' ! You might try getting a graphics/modeling program (like flash, inkscape, GiMP, Blender) and manually making squares that are textured to match one of those sheets, just to experiment and get a feel with animating. The awesome part is you can really just draw a few full body poses in higher res, and then photo-chop them into the pieces you need to animate; Essentially, you only have to draw 3 frames to get fully animated characters.

Elle:

SDL, as with all toolkits, is just a UTSL (Use The Source, Luke!) toolkit; It's really a ton on macro defines that wrap all the crap you have to deal with in Windows, linux, mac, and even other platforms like PS2, GC, ect... It's very low level and gives you complete control; Plus it uses dynamic loading to improve performance greatly; and judging from your statement, I'm sure you're not using a FBO in OpenGL, am I right? SDL 1.2 is a little tricky to get to work with FBO's, and the community is very active so 1.3 should fix it (The SVN is nice to check out).

Buuut this isn't a SDL plug; It's just an option. If you're better with native Win32, stick with it, just beware of 32/64 compatibility issues and deprecated win32 functions! (Did you ever figure out how to block NC_PAINT message / windowing action message loop blocking??? that's been killing me! x.x)

I want to make absolutely sure that it works with what we have

There's no worry about this if the format the editor makes is ASCII text; You're competent enough to convert any text format to your own format, no?

If I have someone else do it, I don't learn as much as if I just do it myself. =P

Doesn't mean you can't do your own later if I make an editor to speed things up. Plus, there's no faster learning than by example. RULE ONE of coding, is don't work in a vacuum. Learn from both good and bad examples. Here's some randomness to think about.

I was going to put a simple one byte identifier at the start of each as well. ... we simply convert the files and use the binaries for smaller size and faster loading.

Erm; Here's some advice: Don't use binary files until you have hacked or understood how some other classic binary files work; It's a huge headache, and you'll hurt yourself via lots of headbanging. For instance, reading 4 bytes instead of 1 is faster than reading just the one. Think about how your processor is constructed physically; When you use a FILE * or a std::ifstream it'll be reading far ahead and caching the result. When you 'fetch' bytes, the processor has to copy that 'word' into a register, and then bit shuffle it around to access that 1 byte. By using a system-width word (4 bytes, usually. sometimes 32 bytes.) it avoids any shuffling which saves a lot of reading. (this is along the same thought as cache-optimization and SSE programming, also other binary considerations!) Also, for classical binary file types, use the 'FourCC' method, it is proven, well known, and makes your file backwards/forwards compatible. Buuut, this is all from raw experience; Each machine will read different lines different ways at random speeds; I've done so much hacking (as you could see on my blog) I've learned a lot of really nice file tricks I'd love to share if you're interested!

IN SUMMARY: Design/Make up a text based file first (Refer to the 3D Model .obj specifications for a great example of a super simple and effective text format) and get that working. Don't optimize prematurely; If it works, then later you can always improve the loader. Focus on file/data driven programming!

I'll go dig up some code snips for ya later; For today, I'm dodging storms XD

Remember, don't think too hard; Focus on the design so that these problems can be solved at a later time! And certainly don't work yourself into burnout; I know I do that a lot. Jeeze, it took me 3 months before I could steal Valgirt(blog). XD

Good luck! Peace.

-Z

[Elle]

Elle:

SDL, as with all toolkits, is just a UTSL (Use The Source, Luke!) toolkit; It's really a ton on macro defines that wrap all the crap you have to deal with in Windows, linux, mac, and even other platforms like PS2, GC, ect... It's very low level and gives you complete control; Plus it uses dynamic loading to improve performance greatly; and judging from your statement, I'm sure you're not using a FBO in OpenGL, am I right? SDL 1.2 is a little tricky to get to work with FBO's, and the community is very active so 1.3 should fix it (The SVN is nice to check out).

Buuut this isn't a SDL plug; It's just an option. If you're better with native Win32, stick with it, just beware of 32/64 compatibility issues and deprecated win32 functions! (Did you ever figure out how to block NC_PAINT message / windowing action message loop blocking??? that's been killing me! x.x)

Yeah, I think I'll stick with what I have for now... Darn all these terms though. X3 It's been too long since I had classes on any of this stuff, and I fear I may be a little rusty on everything, though I'm still good at using what I do have. =P I'll have to go find my C++ and OpenGL books and go over them again. =3

Yeah...I've been doing C++-like scripts for the longest time now. X3 Two places I worked at both did that...

I want to make absolutely sure that it works with what we have

There's no worry about this if the format the editor makes is ASCII text; You're competent enough to convert any text format to your own format, no?

If I have someone else do it, I don't learn as much as if I just do it myself. =P

Doesn't mean you can't do your own later if I make an editor to speed things up. Plus, there's no faster learning than by example. RULE ONE of coding, is don't work in a vacuum. Learn from both good and bad examples. Here's some randomness to think about.

Yes, but... There is some functionality I'm going to probably make along with the simple animation. I'd like to implement collision volumes for both the character and where they strike, in order to make it easy to implement other features in game. Along with that, the interface must be just right. o.o I'm...OCD about some things, which is why when I can do it, I usually don't like having others do it. I usually end up wanting to fix it to how I'd like it later. X3 In any case though, if you really want to do it, go ahead. I'll probably edit it like crazy afterward and add features if I have the source, of course, but feel free to go ahead if you'd like. =P It really seems like you want to help, and it's hard for me to say no, especially when someone does seem to know what they're doing. X3

I was going to put a simple one byte identifier at the start of each as well. ... we simply convert the files and use the binaries for smaller size and faster loading.

Erm; Here's some advice: Don't use binary files until you have hacked or understood how some other classic binary files work; It's a huge headache, and you'll hurt yourself via lots of headbanging. For instance, reading 4 bytes instead of 1 is faster than reading just the one. Think about how your processor is constructed physically; When you use a FILE * or a std::ifstream it'll be reading far ahead and caching the result. When you 'fetch' bytes, the processor has to copy that 'word' into a register, and then bit shuffle it around to access that 1 byte. By using a system-width word (4 bytes, usually. sometimes 32 bytes.) it avoids any shuffling which saves a lot of reading. (this is along the same thought as cache-optimization and SSE programming, also other binary considerations!) Also, for classical binary file types, use the 'FourCC' method, it is proven, well known, and makes your file backwards/forwards compatible. Buuut, this is all from raw experience; Each machine will read different lines different ways at random speeds; I've done so much hacking (as you could see on my blog) I've learned a lot of really nice file tricks I'd love to share if you're interested!

True, true. This is something I really should have remembered from back in class. We had a class that focused on optimization, and one on assembly... Along with that, we had the classes on basic C++ that probably went over that...

IN SUMMARY: Design/Make up a text based file first (Refer to the 3D Model .obj specifications for a great example of a super simple and effective text format) and get that working. Don't optimize prematurely; If it works, then later you can always improve the loader. Focus on file/data driven programming!

I'll go dig up some code snips for ya later; For today, I'm dodging storms XD

Remember, don't think too hard; Focus on the design so that these problems can be solved at a later time! And certainly don't work yourself into burnout; I know I do that a lot. Jeeze, it took me 3 months before I could steal Valgirt(blog). XD

Good luck! Peace.

-Z

To tell the truth, I have done plenty of file loading before. I've made various formats for different projects, and one 3D project I worked on that basically had a bunch of rooms connected to one another had several files it would load in, one for each room. All the vertexes for the rooms, the UV coords, the textures, and so on were loaded in from files, along with which rooms they connected to, and in which way the connected to said other rooms. I can handle all the general ideas for making a file format easily. It's just some of those little details, like loading 4 bites at a time that I tend to forget. X3

Anyway, thanks for the help once again. =P Now if I could only get a darn job. X3

[Teni]

Hm... what animation tool are you going to be using?

[psvorefan1520]

Is there possibly work being done on this? I mean, last post's August, but still. Idea must be put into expression!

[ImaginaryZ]

Good question! I haven't heard from peeps in a while. I'm still working on a UVX/Mesh editor program for my own projects and that can benefit this one (and any others), but that's taking a good long time to make. (go download blender's source code and use GHOST. It's quite useful.) Hope we can see some posts, but usually people get super busy at random times; even 4 months isn't a long time to wait, interestingly XD

Keep on truckin'!
-Z

[11millionseconds]

S'up guys, how the game coming along?

[coldReactive]

Your game is now on wakoopa:

http://wakoopa.com/software/tech-nekos

lol.

[Superblah]

Doesnt look like it unfortunately

[Kiyoa]

As far as I know, it's still on... but things are not going very quickly.

I can't speak for Elle, but on my end, the problem is simply that I'm really quite terrible at splitting my attention between multiple different tasks. I'm quite good when focused, but my efforts tend to become diffuse and lackluster the most my focus is broken. Complicating things is that I have to rely on proxies to access the Portal - most proxies have limits on file size, and I usually cannot interact with the site in a meaningful way through them. I had been using ToR, but increasingly the relays are being rebuffed as 405 (forbidden) errors disguised as 404's... which is the entire reason I have to use proxies in the first place.

It's... very frustrating, and I've no idea why I started having this problem in the first place. I tried getting in contact with the mods when this first started happening, but the issue persists. In all likelihood, my ability to post is going to be so ridiculously curtailed that my only option would be effective inactivity.

I have no idea if this message will successfully submit... but here's hoping.

[Snorlaxkid]

As far as I know, it's still on... but things are not going very quickly.

I can't speak for Elle, but on my end, the problem is simply that I'm really quite terrible at splitting my attention between multiple different tasks. I'm quite good when focused, but my efforts tend to become diffuse and lackluster the most my focus is broken. Complicating things is that I have to rely on proxies to access the Portal - most proxies have limits on file size, and I usually cannot interact with the site in a meaningful way through them. I had been using ToR, but increasingly the relays are being rebuffed as 405 (forbidden) errors disguised as 404's... which is the entire reason I have to use proxies in the first place.

It's... very frustrating, and I've no idea why I started having this problem in the first place. I tried getting in contact with the mods when this first started happening, but the issue persists. In all likelihood, my ability to post is going to be so ridiculously curtailed that my only option would be effective inactivity.

I have no idea if this message will successfully submit... but here's hoping.

It was

[psvorefan1520]

Wow, proxies...
What you using a proxy for again? Can you like not access it from there? I had the same problem with sun-aegis so if that be that then that's that and that I can understand.

[Kiyoa]

Wow, proxies...
What you using a proxy for again? Can you like not access it from there? I had the same problem with sun-aegis so if that be that then that's that and that I can understand.

Yeah... at least this one seems to allow me to post on the forums - most others seem to limit me to browsing and nothing else. And yeah, my access to the site is blocked. I can't access it normally - I get "HTTP/1.1 404 Object Not Found" errors... which are actually "HTTP/1.1 403 Forbidden" errors. Heh, remembered the error number wrong. I guess my ip must have been b&hammered for some reason, but I have no idea what it might be. In any case, my only way in now is via proxy.