Generations of Vore: Development and Suggestions

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How should enemies be encountered?

Enemies should be encountered in distinct areas separated by floors with bosses separating each floor.
55
52%
The floor level should dictate what enemies will spawn.
28
27%
All enemies should be encounterable from the start.
22
21%
 
Total votes : 105

Generations of Vore: Development and Suggestions

Postby SikeSky » Mon Jul 03, 2017 1:25 am

Hello and welcome to my first major coding project! I've browsed here for a while and played some of the games, read plenty of stories, and dabbled in python a bit before buckling down and getting a more solid understanding. I'm no pro to be sure, but I've got enough of a handle to code a few small games.

I've got a write-up here on why I'm doing this and some thoughts about the whole genre of sex games. I'd encourage you to read it, but I've got it spoilered so it doesn't take up screen space.
Spoiler: show
I learned a lot of it making my own (lewd!) RPG with random monsters, randomly generated loot, random missions with high value items and more. It also featured something I'd seen in a lot of the games on here: defeat scene vore. In the event of fighting a larger monster, there was a chance you could be eaten or UB/CV'd if you lost.

This led me to a bit of reflection and examination of what I perceive to be a serious problem with sex games, especially ones that cater to fetishes like transformation and other "unlucky" fates. I have a detailed post on reddit here.
TL;DR with vore games in mind: How many times have you played an RPG maker game where you got nommed by a naga and get sent to the "Game Over" screen? There are relatively few that don't do this, and it feels like a major conflict of interest between developer and player. It's a vore game, and "games" are supposed to be beaten. You progress and if you make the right choices, you beat challenges and continue. The reward is given in this progression and by beating the game. In Vore games, the best reward is a sex/vore scene, and there is a widespread tendency to place these rewards between player choice and the "Game Over" screen. This compels the player to play the game "incorrectly" so that they can see those scenes, knowing full well that, as far as the actual game goes, they're making a bad decision.

This feels like a carry-over from fiction - actual stories prewritten by the author about characters making decisions for the reader to enjoy. These games aren't "games," they're interactive fiction, where the player is compelled to make decisions that go against traditional laws/rules of gaming.


So what this is all about:
I want to become a better programmer and make the game I feel addresses some of the issues I have with our favorite genre, so I'm going to put together a text-based RPG centered around a core concept: Losing is bad, vore is not.

General Gameplay Cycle:
Spoiler: show
You play as a woman called by a dark deity, Slaan to defeat his rival who has fled to the corporeal world. He has gifted you power and abilities to fight this threat and compelled you to travel to his den and defeat him.
* You will have a chance to gear up with weapons before delving into the dungeon as well as assign some basic attributes to your champion.
* You will fight monsters to gain experience and levels.
* Health is restored with spells and potions.
* Enemies will get harder as you go further into the dungeon.
* Winning a fight will give you the option to vore or be vored by your enemy. Slaan will resurrect you at the spot you "die" with renewed Vigor, should you choose to be vored.
* Losing a fight will mean you are vored by the monster and die. You will then "respawn" as your previous champion's daughter, starting at whatever level you were at when you last died.
* Your experience is left at the level you die, and your daughter can pick it up should she reach that point on her quest. This extra XP should help overcome whatever beat you last time!
* Any gathered loot will automatically be stored at the starting house upon death. This means high-level magical artifacts can be collected and used by successors.
* Random NPCs can give bonuses if you vore them or get vored by them, such as renewed health or free items.
Eventually you will defeat Slaan's rival and win.

I'd like recommendations from people with experience in programming in regards to what engine I should use for this. I originally planned to use libtcod to create a "roguelike," (albeit with persistent progression - so I guess not really a roguelike :P ) though something like Ren'Py or whatever the hell HSS+ uses could also work, though the gameplay would be much different. Another problem with something more visual-based is art/graphics: I'm incapable of making my own art and can't commission anybody, so this wouldn't be a good option unless there's some willing artists out there or some good sources of stock images to use.

General suggestions, recommendations, and questions would also greatly be appreciated, especially in this pre/early development stage.

July 4th update:
Spoiler: show
So I've monkeyed around with both python + libtcod and the Ren'Py routes and I can say right off the bat that each have their merits. I don't find myself being too restricted by Ren'Py, and the easy choice menus and such make assembling things a lot easier than I thought it'd be. However, playing out a "game" game in the sense of running around and battling monsters somehow doesn't seem to fit the engine quite right, at least with what I had in mind at first. The roguelike design made sense in regards to the whole "running + stabbing + looting" cycle I had planned initially, and I'll probably stick with that for the libtcod version. Things like sharp spears that can penetrate armor easily and hammers that deal crushing damage but are unreliable, these are only really worth thinking about if you're always fighting. Ren'Py just doesn't feel like the right platform for that kind of game.

Anyways, the Ren'Py version will have very different combat than the libtcod "roguelike" verison. For example, the Ren'Py version that I have now has Allure, Dexterity, and Strength as the main stats. These would, in theory, be more effective with certain styles of fighting. Allure lets you use better wands, dexterity lets you use better knives, and strength lets you use heavier weapons.

Once I iron out some stuff and add monsters, randomly generated items, and actual combat, I might upload a demo to show what I have. I still don't know what to do in regards to images for the Ren'Py version though!


Please recommend monsters and human enemies to add!
Last edited by SikeSky on Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:40 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Generations of Vore: Development and Suggestions

Postby mZmm » Mon Jul 03, 2017 1:57 am

this has been talked about before. well it is a big problem in other genres i think vore really isn't one of them

from my perspective of a text adventure (mostly) fatal vore prey game, there really isn't a way to get around vore being a game over without introducing some contrived mechanic that makes no sense.

the way I "fix" this (I honestly don't care that much) is just by including some non fatal scenes when they work logically with the character in the game. I prefer for the content to make sense in the game world before I think about expanding to new audiences or pandering

also if you're not going to do any art just use something like Quest or twine
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Re: Generations of Vore: Development and Suggestions

Postby Revx_Z » Mon Jul 03, 2017 2:42 am

Sounds like a good improvement.

mZmm wrote:from my perspective of a text adventure (mostly) fatal vore prey game, there really isn't a way to get around vore being a game over without introducing some contrived mechanic that makes no sense.

How about using the already existing mechanic of "Load game"? If the character gets eaten, autoload to previous scene.
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Re: Generations of Vore: Development and Suggestions

Postby mZmm » Mon Jul 03, 2017 2:48 am

Quest (what I program in) can't really do that

and I'm pretty sure that's what OP is trying to avoid in the first place
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Re: Generations of Vore: Development and Suggestions

Postby SikeSky » Mon Jul 03, 2017 3:21 am

mZmm wrote:Quest (what I program in) can't really do that

and I'm pretty sure that's what OP is trying to avoid in the first place


Right. I'm taking a look at Quest to get a feel for how it works and what I could do with it. I'd like to use another engine if it can provide the tools and interface I need. The editor has a nice layout, so there's one plus, but the "Zork" style input is a little cumbersome. It's actually quite similar to my first big personal project, where I had keywords you had to type to control the game. I started working with Python's built in Tkinter GUI systems, but that got a bit messy too.
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Re: Generations of Vore: Development and Suggestions

Postby ryanshowseason3 » Mon Jul 03, 2017 6:23 am

I'm not sure why you couldn't use renp'y and still make it personalized. There are a lot of UI elements that you can leverage to create GUI's and other graphical elements...

On top of that it's written and uses python so I feel like those two options in the poll aren't mutually exclusive. It also sounds like you don't have much use for maps and traversing one, it isn't part of your core gameplay so consider if it adds anything to the experience. So what does libcotd bring to the table then?
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Re: Generations of Vore: Development and Suggestions

Postby sansuki » Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:11 am

OP, I feel you. I'd also recommend you read a bit on a game like Rogue Legacy, which has done the "You're clearing a dungeon/castle and are very much not expected to do it in your first life, so every time you die, you start over again as your son/daughter, albeit a little stronger" vibe you're going for. It's good stuff. I also have no problem with roguelikes/text games that don't have art, though I would prefer something more roguelike-ish than interactive fiction-y ish.

In the end, I am interested, and I'd recommend picking whatever you're most comfortable with Right Now and making a vertical slice of gameplay for demo purposes just to see where some of the kinks might be. Early, short demo. :)
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Re: Generations of Vore: Development and Suggestions

Postby b5n » Tue Jul 04, 2017 9:12 am

WOAW this looks awesowe i'm so hype good luck with that



please if you do same size show the belly because some game forget that
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Re: Generations of Vore: Development and Suggestions

Postby SikeSky » Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:51 pm

sansuki wrote:

I think I'll probably try it in both engines. Renpy is versatile enough that not learning how to use it would be a mistake. I've already set up some basic dungeon generation (using the libtcod tutorial) and am setting up some things for adding creatures/items.

ryanshowseason3 wrote:

Like I said, I'll probably try both. I wanted to make an RPG, and the "roguelike" design (which libtcod helps with) felt perfect for the idea I had for the world I wanted to place the game in. Plus, I like RPGs like BROGUE, TOME, ADOM, DCSS (etc etc) and want to make one that, uh, might appeal to larger audiences someday. I somehow feel like a vore fetish sex game wouldn't roll well with the general population.
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Re: Generations of Vore: Development and Suggestions

Postby SikeSky » Wed Jul 05, 2017 7:56 pm

Okay, check this out:
Code: Select all
            "Equip something":
                python:
                    invlist = [(f.name,f) for f in me.inv] #<- THIS SHIT HERE. THE EQUIP FUNCTION, WHICH USES THE VARIABLE "x", WON'T RUN IF THIS ISN'T "invlist = [(x.name,x) for x in me.inv]"
                    pick = menu(invlist)
                    g("[pick.desc]") # this shows that it does in fact return an item and assign it to the variable 'pick'
                    me.equip(pick) # hand-off pick to the player's equip function

This is an option in a renpy menu to equip something from the player's inventory. The problem I ran into was that while I could equip items and they did correctly change stats, the function was not removing whatever item was already in the item slot. I went through a dozen or more iterations trying to figure out what I was doing wrong. Here's what part of the equip code looks like:
Code: Select all
        def equip(self,x):
            if x.itemtype == "equipment": # check if the selected item is equippable
                if x.bonus == "allure": # this item requires 'x' level of allure to wield, or, in other words, is a wand
                    if self.all >= x.lvl: # check if the player has the required stats to use the item
                        if len(self.weapon) > 1: # check if there are already items in the player's equipment slot
                            n = self.weapon.pop() # take off the current weapon and assign it to n
                            self.inv.append(n) # put the old weapon in the inventory
                            self.weapon.append(x) # put the new weapon in the player's weapon slot
                            g("You switch out the [n.name] for the [x.name]") # announce this to the player
                        else:
                            g("You equip the [x.name]")
                            self.inv.remove(x)
                            self.weapon.append(x)


(If you want all of it, here:)
Spoiler: show
Code: Select all
        def equip(self,x):
            if x.itemtype == "equipment": # check if the selected item is equippable
                if x.bonus == "allure": # this item requires 'x' level of allure to wield, or, in other words, is a wand
                    if self.all >= x.lvl: # check if the player has the required stats to use the item
                        if len(self.weapon) > 0: # check if there are already items in the player's equipment slot
                            n = self.weapon.pop() # take off the current weapon and assign it to n
                            self.inv.append(n) # put the old weapon in the inventory
                            self.weapon.append(x) # put the new weapon in the player's weapon slot
                            g("You switch out the [n.name] for the [x.name]") # announce this to the player
                        else:
                            g("You equip the [x.name]")
                            self.inv.remove(x)
                            self.weapon.append(x)
                    else:
                        g("You lack the ability to wield this...")
                elif x.bonus == "dexterity":
                    if self.dex >= x.lvl:
                        if len(self.weapon) > 0:
                            n = self.weapon.pop()
                            self.inv.append(n)
                            self.weapon.append(x)
                            g("You switch out the [n.name] for the [x.name]")
                        else:
                            g("You equip the [x.name]")
                            self.inv.remove(x)
                            self.weapon.append(x)
                    else:
                        g("You lack the ability to wield this...")               
                elif x.bonus == "strength":
                    if self.str >= x.lvl:
                        if len(self.weapon) > 0:
                            n = self.weapon.pop()
                            self.inv.append(n)
                            self.weapon.append(x)
                            g("You switch out the [n.name] for the [x.name]")
                        else:
                            g("You equip the [x.name]")
                            self.inv.remove(x)
                            self.weapon.append(x)
                    else:
                        g("You lack the ability to wield this...")               
                else:
                    if len(self.armor) > 0:
                        n = self.armor.pop()
                        self.inv.append(n)
                        self.armor.append(x)
                        g("You switch out the [n.name] for the [x.name]")
                    else:
                        g("You equip the [x.name]")
                        self.inv.remove(x)
                        self.armor.append(x)
            else:
                g("That's not a valid item type!")
            self.update()


So, what I found with some experimentation... was that Ren'Py was only running the equip function because I used the same name for the argument as an earlier variable. I found the problem because the "You equip (...) item" was always returning the final value in the inventory list. Slipping a "x = pick" right before running the equip function, dirty as that fix is, did seem to solve the problem. I also realized that the game wouldn't run the "switch" items because I had the check equal to len(self.weapon) > 1 instead of > 0.

So, first big question:
HOW THE FUCK DOES RENPY HANDLE MY SCOPE? Take this for example:
Code: Select all
                elif x.bonus == "strength":
                    if self.str >= x.lvl:
                        if len(self.weapon) > 0:
                            n = self.weapon.pop()
                            self.inv.append(n)
                            self.weapon.append(x)
                            for y in self.weapon:
                                g("[y.desc]")
                            narm = self.inv[-1]
                            g("You switch out the [narm.name] for the [x.name]")

What I'm doing here is checking that there is only the one item in the player's weapon slot. g("") is the Ren'Py syntax for making a character say something. I haven't found a better way to "print" strings to the main screen, which is bad, because Mr.G here is utter shite. It's returning an error here because it doesn't recognize what "y" is, so it can't print y's description. The same thing is happening lower down with narm, a leftover variable for testing Mr.G.

Anyways, somebody who's more experienced with Ren'Py, help would be appreciated.
1. Why the hell does the name of my function's argument matter when I put in a variable?
2. How do I make Mr.G cooperate and recognize the variables I'm trying to get it to print?
3. Explain this:
Code: Select all
            "Equip something":
                python:
                    invlist = [(x.name,x) for x in me.inv]
                    pick = menu(invlist)
                    g("[x.desc]") # This returns the description of the last item in the inventory
                    x = pick # 5 bucks says this turns the last item in the inventory into whatever the user picks from the menu
                    g("[x.desc]") # this displays the description of the mysterious new variable x
                    g("[pick.desc]") # this displays the description of whatever the user picked from the same menu. In game, this is the same as the previous line. At least something here makes sense...
                    me.equip(pick) # hand-off pick to the player's equip function


What I believe is happening is Ren'Py is creating some variable "x" when I create the menu list, and rather than handing off pick to the equip function as argument x, every time I have an x.this or self.dothis(x), it's using variable x instead of pick.
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Re: Generations of Vore: Development and Suggestions

Postby SikeSky » Thu Jul 06, 2017 2:35 pm

Well, it's working now. Sort of. I've still got a problem with "printing" to the console though.
Code: Select all
                elif item.bonus == "dexterity":
                    if self.dex >= item.lvl:
                        if len(self.weapon) > 0:
                            n = self.weapon.pop()
                            self.inv.append(n)
                            self.weapon.append(item)
                            self.inv.remove(item)
                            "You switch out the [n.name] for the [item.name]"

That last line? That's basically just a string. Most places in Ren'Py will print that out to the console, but, locked up in a python function, it just gets ignored. I don't know how to actually make that get displayed, and, until I can, it makes things like combat really hard to do because I can't talk to the user.

Uh, on another note, I've got the framework for spells laid down. Every spell has to have a target and an effect. There's a cost to using spells, and everything will be balanced out of course, but right now it's shaping up to be more than just stylized attacks.

Finally, I need a way to import python files because my python init is almost 250 lines long now, and it's really, really ugly. Where do I put custom packages?
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Re: Generations of Vore: Development and Suggestions

Postby ryanshowseason3 » Sun Jul 09, 2017 8:44 pm

SikeSky wrote:That last line? That's basically just a string. Most places in Ren'Py will print that out to the console, but, locked up in a python function, it just gets ignored. I don't know how to actually make that get displayed, and, until I can, it makes things like combat really hard to do because I can't talk to the user.



Oooh oooh I can answer this one maybe. Or offer alternate solutions as well.

You're in python land now son and renpy can't help you there with it's own syntax unless you invoke it to do so.

renpy.say is what you're looking for perhaps.

However I find renpy.notify to be a very useful tool in showing information without interrupting the user with an awkwardly inserted narration item to click through. It shows a message in the corner by default.

The other scoping problems I'm not as sure about. Python isn't a particular strength of mine. I'm more used to strongly typed languages. It seems that python can't tell what type "y" is and doesn't know how to access the desc... In a strongly typed language I'd tell you to cast that thing into something understandable and include the header for it. Here I don't know what the procedure is, I thought loosely typed languages would just try it and then crash and burn at run time if it failed.

If I ran into that I'd probably have to spend a good time brushing up on the (python) language.
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Re: Generations of Vore: Development and Suggestions

Postby SikeSky » Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:30 pm

I found this worked:
Code: Select all
renpy.show_display_say(None,"You switch out the "+ n.name + " for the " + item.name + " .")

But notify sounds much better if it'll work.

Anyways, I've got most of those problems ironed out now and a timeline of what I want to achieve with each version.

.1 - finish core combat and exploration established, including exploration, item generation, random encounters, and the final boss; .2 - all core vore scenes incorporated ; .3 - finish adding spells ; .4 - add more enemies ; .5 - add more consumables ; .6 - GUI overhaul ; .7 - add backgrounds and character images ; .8 - add sounds and music ; .9 - add combat GUI ; 1.0 - add vore-specific sprites to vore scenes

I'm about 60% done with .1 now. I got a bit distracted with Exanima over the weekend, but I'm gonna try to finish it up by the 14th (Friday).

Suggestions for monsters and human enemies are appreciated! It's easier for me to code than to come up with scenes and creatures, so basically whatever is submitted will probably make it into the game.
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Re: Generations of Vore: Development and Suggestions

Postby ryanshowseason3 » Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:11 pm

Beegirl honey disposal
Drider web disposal
Seductive quicksand mudgirl

:wink:
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Re: Generations of Vore: Development and Suggestions

Postby SikeSky » Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:17 am

ryanshowseason3 wrote:Beegirl honey disposal
Drider web disposal
Seductive quicksand mudgirl

:wink:

Oooh, bee girl and drider are both ones I haven't heard of before! I like it.
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Re: Generations of Vore: Development and Suggestions

Postby SikeSky » Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:37 pm

I've come to a point where I'd like to reach out the community for help. The main gameplay as of now is to "explore," which is predominantly fighting enemies with a small chance of finding an item. It's inevitable that you will die, but as long as you can get to the floor you died on last, you'll get back all of your lost exp, plus whatever you've accumulated since!

So, while I know this is a sex game with a focus on vore and all, I still want this to be well designed and not just a clicker to get to some (currently non-existent) images and (currently existent!) text. I've given it some thought and I can think of three ways to go about "encountering" foes.

1. Pokémon style! Exploration isn't random, but rather done in certain areas. Floors 1-5 might be a bandit forest, floors 6-10 the sinister jungle, 11-15 the dungeons and so on and so forth. At the end of each floor you can decide whether or not to take on a special boss fight. Every "area" would have a list of enemies that will spawn in it, but weapons and armor are not tied to areas. (I mean, I suppose I could do it, but weapon/armor names are just flavor text.) This style would probably take the longest to set up.

2. Roguelike style! Exploration encounters are tied to the floor you are on, so bandits and elf girls will probably only show up in the beginning. You're not going to see any hell-spawn for a while, either.
(Aside: The game doesn't actually consider different monster classes any more or less powerful than another, only different degrees of magical capability and intelligence. As it is, you could fight a level 2 "Demon Princess" and a level 45 "Slime" and the only indicator of relative difficulty is the level.) This wouldn't take very long to set up.

3. Keep it as is, and let all enemies be encounterable from the start! This would take the least amount of time because it's already done :lol:


I'll put up a poll for this.
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Re: Generations of Vore: Development and Suggestions

Postby lich1993 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:45 am

it sound a bit like Rogue legacy with the dying and your child continues your journey and keeps the stuff from the previous char and i'll be quite interested to see how it turns out :) and for a monsters is there any kind you dislike and will they be both female and male ?
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Re: Generations of Vore: Development and Suggestions

Postby SikeSky » Thu Jul 13, 2017 5:38 am

lich1993 wrote:it sound a bit like Rogue legacy with the dying and your child continues your journey and keeps the stuff from the previous char and i'll be quite interested to see how it turns out :) and for a monsters is there any kind you dislike and will they be both female and male ?


Glad to hear! To answer your questions, I suppose I don't have a problem with much besides overt furry content. Wolf-girl and her hungry muzzle #386 just doesn't do it for me. However, if people want that in there and provide a good scene, I'd definitely include it. I suppose I don't mind what gender, though I've only added female enemies as of now. Take that as you will.
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Re: Generations of Vore: Development and Suggestions

Postby lich1993 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:52 am

I asked for the gender just so i know what i'll be expecting and for enemies ... for the forest maybe fairy or something ,for the jungle slime or a lamia .
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Re: Generations of Vore: Development and Suggestions

Postby SikeSky » Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:30 am

Yeah, something like that. That's why I was asking for recommendations. Imps and hellhounds, Oni and harpies, elves, slimes, dryads, things like that that are more common fantasy fare I know and can include. Something like a cute bee girl who turns her prey into honey? I'd never think of something like that.

The themes right now are 1. Wilderness - bandits, witches, will-o-wisps, centaur 2. Forest - Elves, sorceress, faerie, dryads 3. Mountain - Giant/giantess, harpies, shaman 4. Jungle- Amazons, slimes, snakes, nagas, lamias, mermaids 5. Dungeon - vampire, cursed adventurers, cultists, drider, wraith, 6. Hell - Succubus and incubus, hungry souls, hellhound

I also had an idea for a city/temple area with corrupted people, but have decided against it for now. Ideas for bosses include the Bandit Queen, the forest guardian, and a fallen angel.
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