Vore War V17E

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Re: Vore War V16E

Postby Flame_Valxsarion » Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:44 pm

Aurilika wrote:Do you mean adding damage types to the existing weapons, or adding additional damage types? Either of those could be a little bit tricky because there are quite a few races that use their own unique weapons, so adding new weapons would require a fair amount of extra sprites, and doing them by how the weapons currently look may result in some races ending up with the short end of the stick. I'll certainly keep that kind of system in mind though.


I didn't think about the unique weapons, (up til now I've only played as the lizards), so you're right that some of the weapons of the same class wouldn't match the damage types I proposed. In that case maybe instead have weapon types as ranged/light/heavy where ranged obviously cover all of the ranged weapons and light/heavy cover the melee types. On that note, instead of the armor I suggested, forgetc that entirely and have the weapons work in a rock-paper-scissors style way. For example ranged beats heavy, heavy beats light, and light beats ranged. Of course they shouldn't outright beat the ones weak to them, but maybe have an increased hit rate? Or a very slight damage increase vs. them?

Reading back in the topic, it sounds like you might be adding classes. So I guess that would also work towards what I'm suggesting. The overall suggestion I'm trying to get across is that I feel certain unit types should have a small advantage over certain other types. I think Fire Emblem did something along these lines, but I've never played one.
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Re: Vore War V16E

Postby GramzonTheDragon » Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:52 pm

I have tried to edit and replace the serpent sprites like i did with the sharks to increase belly size, but after editting one sprite and importing, they no longer render at all in the game. i replaced it with the original file but it also is no longer rendering. what gives?
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Re: Vore War V16E

Postby Aurilika » Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:39 pm

Flame_Valxsarion wrote:I didn't think about the unique weapons, (up til now I've only played as the lizards), so you're right that some of the weapons of the same class wouldn't match the damage types I proposed. In that case maybe instead have weapon types as ranged/light/heavy where ranged obviously cover all of the ranged weapons and light/heavy cover the melee types. On that note, instead of the armor I suggested, forgetc that entirely and have the weapons work in a rock-paper-scissors style way. For example ranged beats heavy, heavy beats light, and light beats ranged. Of course they shouldn't outright beat the ones weak to them, but maybe have an increased hit rate? Or a very slight damage increase vs. them?


That might be an interesting system to add a little bit of twist. That would give light weapons more of a reason to be used, but still leaves the heavy ranged weapon as the ideal ranged candidate. Maybe light weapons would give more of a bonus vs heavy ranged?

GramzonTheDragon wrote:I have tried to edit and replace the serpent sprites like i did with the sharks to increase belly size, but after editting one sprite and importing, they no longer render at all in the game. i replaced it with the original file but it also is no longer rendering. what gives?


I can't really diagnose it without seeing it. I'm assuming you did a 1:1 sprite replacement, i.e. no extra sprites? My guess would be that it somehow lost the slice data for the sliced sprites. I don't know if you have any unity experience but I'll give a little bit of a guide I wrote for someone else.

Find the sprite file in the project tab in unity, select it, then hit the sprite editor button. At the top pick slice, then change it to grid by cell size, and put in 160x160 instead of the 64x64 that's there. Apply that and back out. Now in the scene, you'll go to the gamemanager object, that has a 'sprite dictionary new' subobject. select that, and scroll down to where the serpent sprites are under monsters. If that shows the sprites you added, you should be good. If it doesn't (say the boxes all say missing reference or something), the easiest way to reset this would be to set the size to 0 for serpents, clearing the sprites. Then hit the little padlock at the top of the inspector, then go back and select all of the shark cell sprites that are inside of the shark sprites in the project view, and drag them onto the serpent name, and that should populate that with all of the serpent sprites. You should probably then unlock the padlock so that it can show different things again.
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Re: Vore War V16E

Postby Flame_Valxsarion » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:44 am

Aurilika wrote:That might be an interesting system to add a little bit of twist. That would give light weapons more of a reason to be used, but still leaves the heavy ranged weapon as the ideal ranged candidate. Maybe light weapons would give more of a bonus vs heavy ranged?


Ah right, heavy ranged.... Okay, I think I've got it figured out.
Something like this, yeah?
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Re: Vore War V16E

Postby SilhouettiShine » Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:36 am

Flame_Valxsarion wrote:Ah right, heavy ranged.... Okay, I think I've got it figured out.
Something like this, yeah?


Hmm... I have a feeling Heavy Melee Vs Heavy Ranged (Or Light Melee Vs Light Ranged) doesn't have an affected advantage or disadvantage.
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Re: Vore War V16E

Postby Flame_Valxsarion » Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:03 am

SilhouettiShine wrote:Hmm... I have a feeling Heavy Melee Vs Heavy Ranged (Or Light Melee Vs Light Ranged) doesn't have an affected advantage or disadvantage.


I was kinda thinking there shouldn't be one between those two, just have them be equally matched.
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Re: Vore War V16E

Postby TTTV » Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:17 am

How do you add more sprites for a creature? I'd like to attempt to see If i could add more belly sizes for some of the monsters but I'm unsure how to go about it on unity (since the only edits I've done are just simple sprite replacements of the last belly sprite). Any advice?
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Re: Vore War V16E

Postby Estee » Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:27 am

I've seen many good suggestions so far but please do not put too much on your plate at once, lest the project gets suffocated under the weight of its own ambition.
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Re: Vore War V16E

Postby MarkusFreeman320 » Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:38 pm

Flame_Valxsarion wrote:
SilhouettiShine wrote:Hmm... I have a feeling Heavy Melee Vs Heavy Ranged (Or Light Melee Vs Light Ranged) doesn't have an affected advantage or disadvantage.


I was kinda thinking there shouldn't be one between those two, just have them be equally matched.


Yeah, it makes better sense to have them equally matched, light melee would make units nimbler and and more accurate, great for dodging and chasing heavy bows but bad at blocking heavy melee gear. Heavy melee gear makes them slower and easier targets for light, accurate bows. But light bows are overwhelmed by the sheer power of heavy bows.

A light nimble melee fighter would be even against a light and accurate light bow. Likewise a slow heavy melee fighter would be even against a powerful but cumbersome and inaccurate heavy bow.

I think to balance them them and make them stand apart light bows and melee should increase units speed and dexterity, since you can run faster with a lighter weapon and have more control and accuracy since it's easier to carry. While heavy melee should increase units strength and defence, since they are bigger and more powerful, and it's easier to block enemy attacks with a claymore than a dagger. Heavy bows should just increase strength, since you can't block with a bow. This will to allow heavy bows to pummel light bows but still give light melee the chance they need to be able to chase them down AND do good damage once they catch them.
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Re: Vore War V16E

Postby Aurilika » Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:44 am

Flame_Valxsarion wrote:
Aurilika wrote:That might be an interesting system to add a little bit of twist. That would give light weapons more of a reason to be used, but still leaves the heavy ranged weapon as the ideal ranged candidate. Maybe light weapons would give more of a bonus vs heavy ranged?


Ah right, heavy ranged.... Okay, I think I've got it figured out.
Something like this, yeah?


That would probably work fairly well. The one question I'd have is what happens if a unit has multiple weapons? I know that is a rare scenario, but I know some players like to play units with both a ranged and a melee weapon. Would a multi-armed unit just be neutral vs everyone?

TTTV wrote:How do you add more sprites for a creature? I'd like to attempt to see If i could add more belly sizes for some of the monsters but I'm unsure how to go about it on unity (since the only edits I've done are just simple sprite replacements of the last belly sprite). Any advice?

Well, I can tell you that there are more bellies coming for some of the monsters (notably the shark) but to add additional sprites, you'd need to replace the sprite, then do the slice and replace the sprites in the sprite dictionary like I mentioned in the previous post. Then, it gets a little bit trickier. You'd need to edit the Assets/Races/[MonsterRace].cs for the particular race that you were editing and change what indexes it's looking at for various things. That's all the references in that file to State.GameManager.SpriteDictionary.[MonsterRace] . It will be easier to add more bellies in the next version because I'm replacing the current system for getting the belly size with a slightly more intuitive one, but it will just involve digging around in that file. It's worth noting that the sprites start from 0, and if you add sprites in the middle, you'll need to adjust the sprites that are higher numbered.

Estee wrote:I've seen many good suggestions so far but please do not put too much on your plate at once, lest the project gets suffocated under the weight of its own ambition.

Don't worry, I'm pacing myself in that regard. I also bounce around between implementing sprites, AI, major features, minor features, code upgrades and ui improvements, so that I don't get bogged down for too long on a single issue.

MarkusFreeman320 wrote:I think to balance them them and make them stand apart light bows and melee should increase units speed and dexterity, since you can run faster with a lighter weapon and have more control and accuracy since it's easier to carry. While heavy melee should increase units strength and defence, since they are bigger and more powerful, and it's easier to block enemy attacks with a claymore than a dagger. Heavy bows should just increase strength, since you can't block with a bow. This will to allow heavy bows to pummel light bows but still give light melee the chance they need to be able to chase them down AND do good damage once they catch them.

That might work fairly well too, I'll certainly take that into consideration.


The next patch is coming along. I was planning on doing a faster patch to get the balance changes out, but then I got involved in some bigger projects. I'll probably either release it late this weekend, or in the middle of next week. Safe to say there's a lot of changes already (1 new main race, 1 new merc race, 2 new monster races, proper monster unit names, AI movement camera options, viewing stats and pictures of currently eaten units, a fair amount of additional tactical log text, and more) Still hoping to finish getting the random traits, army inventory, and 'evolution' for the young wyvern into the old wyvern in.
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Re: Vore War V16E

Postby player1 » Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:46 am

Hmm. is thee a way to add ourselves new mapping textures? Id like to see if i can yoink a few texture in.
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Re: Vore War V16E

Postby Flame_Valxsarion » Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:42 am

Aurilika wrote:That would probably work fairly well. The one question I'd have is what happens if a unit has multiple weapons? I know that is a rare scenario, but I know some players like to play units with both a ranged and a melee weapon. Would a multi-armed unit just be neutral vs everyone?


.......... O.O You can do that? Are you serious? I had no idea that was possible. I just assumed you could only have one weapon but I'll admit I've never tried that until just now, holy crap! Man this opens a few doors, doesn't it? I guess the question I would pose those players is: Are you giving your entire army both weapons? Or just the leaders? I could see giving leaders both weapons since you have complete control over which of their stats grow, but with the random choices for standard units I couldn't really see too much advantage there.

Well, I suppose the solution depends on the people then. If people only dual-weird with their leaders, then I suggest making that an exclusive ability for them and maybe having them not be affected by a weakness? Then again, leaders are already pretty tough as they get a few levels under their belt so having them be exempt from weakness might be a bit OP.... Would it be tough to define one of the slots as Main-Hand? If we could do that then we could have the effectiveness be determined by what is equipped in the main hand slot, and whatever is in the secondary slot shouldn't be taken into account for effectiveness (so we can avoid crazy strong assassin teams that dominate everything if they have the whole spread of weapons equipped).
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Re: Vore War V16E

Postby Deioth » Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:16 pm

Personally I think a simpler option (and one that would work into expanded town mechanics) would be to keep things simple. Heavy weapons -1 MP, light +5% accuracy. As more things are expanded upon (I recall it being mentioned there would be some work on weapon/upgrade shops experimented with at some point) it would do a lot to see heavy weapons be an upgrade over time, like some sort of rudimentary research system. Could then also research for cheaper and more powerful gear including accessories.
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Re: Vore War V16E

Postby MarkusFreeman320 » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:22 pm

Flame_Valxsarion wrote:
Aurilika wrote:That would probably work fairly well. The one question I'd have is what happens if a unit has multiple weapons? I know that is a rare scenario, but I know some players like to play units with both a ranged and a melee weapon. Would a multi-armed unit just be neutral vs everyone?


.......... O.O You can do that? Are you serious? I had no idea that was possible. I just assumed you could only have one weapon but I'll admit I've never tried that until just now, holy crap! Man this opens a few doors, doesn't it? I guess the question I would pose those players is: Are you giving your entire army both weapons? Or just the leaders? I could see giving leaders both weapons since you have complete control over which of their stats grow, but with the random choices for standard units I couldn't really see too much advantage there.

Well, I suppose the solution depends on the people then. If people only dual-weird with their leaders, then I suggest making that an exclusive ability for them and maybe having them not be affected by a weakness? Then again, leaders are already pretty tough as they get a few levels under their belt so having them be exempt from weakness might be a bit OP.... Would it be tough to define one of the slots as Main-Hand? If we could do that then we could have the effectiveness be determined by what is equipped in the main hand slot, and whatever is in the secondary slot shouldn't be taken into account for effectiveness (so we can avoid crazy strong assassin teams that dominate everything if they have the whole spread of weapons equipped).


I suspect he meant unit as in military unit or army, i.e an army that has a mix of archers and melee soldiers of both light and heavy types, as opposed to an army of pure heavy archers for example.

I think that would add an imputus to have vertain races be specialised to melee, archery, vore and hopefully soon magic. That way you equip your army based on who they'll be fighting the most, bringing strategy and consideration into the loadout.
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Re: Vore War V16E

Postby Dreamstars » Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:14 pm

I'm curious of asking, but do you guys have a Idea for how magic will work? :3
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Re: Vore War V16E

Postby Aurilika » Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:46 pm

player1 wrote:Hmm. is thee a way to add ourselves new mapping textures? Id like to see if i can yoink a few texture in.


Do you mean actual tiles, or variations on the existing tiles? If it's tiles, you can send them in and I can add them to the project. If it's variations, that is coming in the next patch.

Flame_Valxsarion wrote:.......... O.O You can do that? Are you serious? I had no idea that was possible. I just assumed you could only have one weapon but I'll admit I've never tried that until just now, holy crap! Man this opens a few doors, doesn't it? I guess the question I would pose those players is: Are you giving your entire army both weapons? Or just the leaders? I could see giving leaders both weapons since you have complete control over which of their stats grow, but with the random choices for standard units I couldn't really see too much advantage there.

Yeah, I personally don't use it, because I feel it's kind of inefficient because you have to split your points between strength and dex. It does give more versatility, but ranged units can always back up and fire, and melee units would perhaps get an extra ranged shot while they approach, but whether it's worth the extra stat points is debatable.

Deioth wrote:Personally I think a simpler option (and one that would work into expanded town mechanics) would be to keep things simple. Heavy weapons -1 MP, light +5% accuracy. As more things are expanded upon (I recall it being mentioned there would be some work on weapon/upgrade shops experimented with at some point) it would do a lot to see heavy weapons be an upgrade over time, like some sort of rudimentary research system. Could then also research for cheaper and more powerful gear including accessories.

This is the other main option, I think it keeps it slightly simpler, as you only have to worry about your weapons and not weapon matching against foes. There's probably going to be enough other complicated stuff in this game eventually. I do kind of like the idea of having the blacksmith allowing second tier weapons as well

Someone also brought up the point that with the high movement speed and the weapon favor system, you can pick optimum targets for your weapons virtually every turn, which turns it from valid tactical strategies to just a rock paper scissors roll that you aren't aware of until you start the battle.

Dreamstars wrote:I'm curious of asking, but do you guys have a Idea for how magic will work? :3

Not really sure as it's probably a decent distance out, but the main suggesting thus far has been to use a system with spell books, that units can equip 1 or 2, and each one contains one spell. That allows you to swap spells in and out, and keeps the magic system from bogging down with tons of spells spread over many units. You'd have probably a certain amount of casts per battle, that may be refilled through vore. Perhaps only certain units would be capable of magic, or some would just be better at it than others. It would also come with a magic related stat that would effect damage / duration, etc. for spells.
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Re: Vore War V16E

Postby player1 » Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:20 am

Aurilika wrote:
player1 wrote:Hmm. is thee a way to add ourselves new mapping textures? Id like to see if i can yoink a few texture in.


Do you mean actual tiles, or variations on the existing tiles? If it's tiles, you can send them in and I can add them to the project. If it's variations, that is coming in the next patch.


The kind of tile id wish for may or may not fall under the "variations". As an exemple, i wanted to check for jungle tiles, taiga or steppes, savannas tiles, volcanoes and maybe a different "ocean" tile. It's mainly to add some more variety or realism! In any case, i will wait for the next patch.
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Re: Vore War V16E

Postby Dreamstars » Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:24 am

That a little brainstorm of my part on magic. I would really like magic in that game since I'm a big fantasy and magic lover x3
So here my little ideas if it can help x3

>Magic could be a rare traits that unit could have. It would decrease a little their others stats in exchange, so they would make them weaker but still powerful if you give them a good spellbook xP

>> If magic is a traits and magic being devised into multiple categories (like, Fire, air, water, earth, light and dark for exemple), it could be even more specific and being like ''Fire spellcaster'' trait that allow it to cast fire spell but not the others. (With for a general traits for the leader to let them using all of them >.>)

>I hear that it would probably have like monsters lairs or something similar? If is true, spellbooks could appear in those place and make the monsters the guardians of those spells. They could appear with the time and give more stronger spells or stuff like that :3

>Love the ideas that spells could be recharge by voring. Like this the actual ''devour'' options in village could be more useful for casters, eating a couple of villagers to get back their magic slots.

>A little ideas could be that ''Will'' would be the stats for magic. Like, more will you have more your magic have change to hit and dealing more damage or vaster area.
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Re: Vore War V16E

Postby Turbotowns » Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:05 am

I was thinking that, with magic, it would be my slime's bane, like all physical attacks only do, like, 1 damage, but magical attacks do 2 to 4 times as much damage to the slimes than it would to any other unit.

Mostly, once magic gets added I can finally say... "The Lizards have become Wizards!"(Something I came up with when I pronounced lizards in a cutesy way, changing the l to a w and immediately realizing what it spelled.)



Aside from that... You(Auri) keep mentioning the next patch, do you have an Idea of when that'll drop?
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Re: Vore War V16E

Postby Deioth » Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:41 am

Aurilika wrote:This is the other main option, I think it keeps it slightly simpler, as you only have to worry about your weapons and not weapon matching against foes. There's probably going to be enough other complicated stuff in this game eventually. I do kind of like the idea of having the blacksmith allowing second tier weapons as well

Someone also brought up the point that with the high movement speed and the weapon favor system, you can pick optimum targets for your weapons virtually every turn, which turns it from valid tactical strategies to just a rock paper scissors roll that you aren't aware of until you start the battle.

I definitely think the depth and strategy intended to be added via just some rock/paper/scissors style with weapon types is better left to the introduction of unit types. Expanding again from the ideas of town/research upgrades to unlock gear and weaponry, units can be upgraded from Soldier to a prestige class. Without going crazy, I think you could eventually have four logical prestige classes: Warrior, Ranger, Mage, and Glutton. Requiring a unit to be, say, at least level 3 and with the right stats, the prestige class allows use of associated advanced/heavy weapons (Garrisons could be promoted if they level enough), Mage use the spellbook/staff weapon, and Gluttons act like the Sky Sharks where every attack is a vore attempt but becomes a light hit if it fails and cannot equip weapons. Prestige classes could also provide a trait/perk befitting that class. Warriors might also have melee accuracy increased 5% and vorability at low health is reduced 50%, or half their defense also applies to Will. Rangers get +1 to attack range and chance a snare on 20% of their hits reducing target move speed. Mages and Gluttons already have been covered as their trait would be what specializes them to their role.


Not really sure as it's probably a decent distance out, but the main suggesting thus far has been to use a system with spell books, that units can equip 1 or 2, and each one contains one spell. That allows you to swap spells in and out, and keeps the magic system from bogging down with tons of spells spread over many units. You'd have probably a certain amount of casts per battle, that may be refilled through vore. Perhaps only certain units would be capable of magic, or some would just be better at it than others. It would also come with a magic related stat that would effect damage / duration, etc. for spells.

Given the game's essential nature and design, certainly keeping things simple is ideal. If you went with my Prestige recommendation, consider two different weapons for the mage, that being staff and spellbook, with each offering a sidegrade choice. The staff could be a moderate damage AOE (say a 3x3) with the spellbook being a direct damage plus debuff (10% reduced stats).
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