Vore War V39

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Re: Vore War V14C

Postby GreenSlime » Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:10 pm

As for which race gets what:

-Cats
>Pounce
>Escape artist

-Dogs
>Pack Will
>Pack Defense

-Wolves
>Pack Strength
>Pack Voracity

-Foxes
>Artful dodge
>Thrill seeker

-Bunnies
>Prolific Breeder
>Prey species
>Easy to vore
>Artful dodge
>Coward

-Lizards
>Resilient
>intimidating

-Slimes
>Slime toss
>Gelatinous body
Some slimes can spawn with the "Imitator" trait

-Scylla
>Aquatic
>Constrict

-Harpies
>Flight
>All terrain Walker

-Imps
>Pack Stomach (Yes. Don't ask how it works. Portals.)
>Demonblood (Upon death/digestion this unit explodes dealing 4+Will mod damage either to predator or to all hosile units around)

-Humans
>Adept learner
>Smart

-Crypters
>Slow breeder
>Metal Body
Some Crypters can spawn with "Overclock" ability

-Lamia
>Constrict
>Biter

-Tiger
>Maul
>Frenzy

-Goblin
>Tempered
>Smart
>Escape Artist
>Artful dodge
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Re: Vore War V14C

Postby GreenSlime » Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:27 pm

My main aim when thinking on abilities is to expand the dimentionality of the play space, or less arrogantly put to make as many lateral moves and viable strategies as possible. That is why many ideas I've had are of the "but why" variety, they are intended to create more variety on the gameplay.

Some definitely succeed, but some (like pacifist) are basically inapplicable.

And the outright stat increase abilities are intended as racial traits, or exclusive-race traits. Tempered for example was intended for crypters, or future chitinous or golem races. Hive mind would be for ant or bee girls if there are any in the future, and assimilator could work on a metroid-like monster unit. I tried to limit myself on the easiest to code abilities with a low/zero magic theme (key word: tried), otherwise the ability to create temporal obstacles a-la protoss, enemy teleportation, minion spawning, healing and multi-attack in a single turn would have been there.

I can see that working for monsters, and I'll try to design monsters that could have these abilities. But I feel like stat increases are better handled through favored stats as it doesn't "lock" race in one build as much.

So far and beyond special skills there are 4 main focus that skills can influence: Stat growth, stat effect on the battlefield, influence on other units and influence from other units. The first 2 make for a rock-paper-scissor mechanic (only more so), while the other 2 allow the possibilites to explode but also add complexity. Which is why I'm wary on abilities that influence or get influenced by other abilities directly.

Special skills can be specially potent in altering the game balance, but I suspect they are also harder to code. And to generalize.

I have nothing to add here.

And on the redundant abilities, maybe similar names could be used as race-variants (pack vs hive mind, tough scales vs resilient) or as levels?

That's definitely an option (which I kinda did with gelatinous body and the like), but I still tried to make default name more... generic.
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Re: Vore War V14C

Postby Turbotowns » Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:28 pm

Orosaki wrote:Quartermaster - Malus to speed. Special Ability: Walking Shop - Allows shop access on the field but with 50% increase to cost.


Malus?!
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Re: Vore War V14C

Postby Turbotowns » Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:55 pm

GreenSlime wrote:Why would you eat that - This unit is outright hazardous for your health and eating it decreases HP. - always good to have these three. This one is reserved for some very unusual races.


Slimes should be immune to this, as they are capable of absorbing anything.
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Re: Vore War V14C

Postby HS » Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:21 am

Commenting on GreenSlime.

Eternal: This unit respawns in the closest town after dying, with one level less. - Neat, it's like mini-leader. - Could instead respawn with half the exp it used to have, with appropriate level loss. Having a level ten unit drop to nine just doesn’t feel like much of a penalty.

Disciplined - Army appears closer together when entering tactical mode. - Can't shake off the feeling it's a waste of ability slot. - Not to those with OCD tendencies. Seriously though, this could become more valuable after some improvements to the tactical battles.

Frog Gut - Significant bonus to voracity but a heavy penalty in being able to hold your food down. - obsolete. - Obsolete how?

Tummy Master: This unit can vomit at will - not sure how it is applicable - Could be used to take food to wounded units. Especially if targeting the regurgitation to a friendly unit would automatically make them freely eat the regurgitated unit.

Destroyer: This unit can destroy a tree, fence or building. - Could be nice for large units, but as of now I don't really see the point. - True, not much point right now. If there’s ever any chance for multi-tile units this will become a must though.

Dryad: This unit can create a tree, as long as it does not completely blocks the path from an unit to another. -either OP or finicky. - How about some vines to slow down movement instead? True, there wouldn’t be that much use for it right now, but perhaps in the future?
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Re: Vore War V14C

Postby Randulf » Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:41 am

Was wondering if you could make a quick update to add two small features
A way to set income of villages per faction
And a way to change vagrants tactical AI and max army size and maybe their spawn rate
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Re: Vore War V14C

Postby LostSoul13 » Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:52 am

GreenSlime wrote:Pounce - When equipped with a light melee weapon unit has range of 2 - debating whether to make this one universal.

Your idea for this ability is much simpler than mine, but when I came up with my version I was thinking it'd be cool to have an ability that allows units to initiate melee combat with an advantage. Your version also doesn't seem very useful to me, because with only one extra range, enemy melee units can simply move into attack range on the next turn, and ranged units will be able to fire back without needing to move away. with it also being limited just to light melee weapons, you'd have to be intentionally holding back your units just to get an extremely situational ability.

The two situations I can think of where your version would work well are when an enemy is completely surrounded by melee units, so that the unit with this ability can still hit them, or a "spear wall" formation, where it's a line of melee units with this ability behind a line without it. However, ranged units with compound bows would fulfill both of this situations better.

There's also some flaws with my version. It's a bit needlessly complex, and it could be exploited by the player to continually get the bonus damage. My version (when not exploited) would only be useful for one attack against a unit, so it's also very situational. Maybe we can bounce ideas around to try and come up with something better?
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Re: Vore War V14C

Postby MikhailOberchav » Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:47 am

quick question regarding the cryptors, are they like undead, machine like, alien? I'm just confused cause they look a little like all 3. Also i've been loving the hell outta this game what with supplying garrisons, leveling troops and making my leader strong as hell. I can't wait to see how much more this game evolves and changes.
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Re: Vore War V14C

Postby DollyFailFail » Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:22 pm

MikhailOberchav wrote:quick question regarding the cryptors, are they like undead, machine like, alien? I'm just confused cause they look a little like all 3. Also i've been loving the hell outta this game what with supplying garrisons, leveling troops and making my leader strong as hell. I can't wait to see how much more this game evolves and changes.

They're kinda both of the first two. They are golems(though the newer versions have been made a lot more robot-like), but they are piloted by the souls of the people of an ancient civilization. The alien part probably comes from how they're partially inspired by the Necrons from Warhammer 40k, who are basically Egyptian skeleton Terminators from Space.
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Re: Vore War V14C

Postby Tira » Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:56 pm

Please, don't lock bunnies (or any other species) as prey-only
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Re: Vore War V14C

Postby GreenSlime » Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:42 pm

Your idea for this ability is much simpler than mine, but when I came up with my version I was thinking it'd be cool to have an ability that allows units to initiate melee combat with an advantage. Your version also doesn't seem very useful to me, because with only one extra range, enemy melee units can simply move into attack range on the next turn, and ranged units will be able to fire back without needing to move away. with it also being limited just to light melee weapons, you'd have to be intentionally holding back your units just to get an extremely situational ability.

The two situations I can think of where your version would work well are when an enemy is completely surrounded by melee units, so that the unit with this ability can still hit them, or a "spear wall" formation, where it's a line of melee units with this ability behind a line without it. However, ranged units with compound bows would fulfill both of this situations better.

There's also some flaws with my version. It's a bit needlessly complex, and it could be exploited by the player to continually get the bonus damage. My version (when not exploited) would only be useful for one attack against a unit, so it's also very situational. Maybe we can bounce ideas around to try and come up with something better?


A very good point. I've actually been discussing potential balance changes between light and heavy weapons (light weapons being more accurate and heavy weapons requiring separate building to make), so I've been writing traits with that in consideration. Even then pounce is too weak in its current incarnation.

The alternative is give cats back what I originally proposed - their attack leaves them part of their MP, letting them reposition after strike. Although I like the "charge attack" idea too. Maybe:

-Leap strike - Moves unit to the random tile near the chosen enemy within 5-tile range. If enemy has no free tiles around them, it cannot be chosen. Then this unit attacks enemy for (weapon damage + STR bonus) +15% for each tile passed (so, 175% damage for 5 tiles) - though this can potentially lead to some funny coding issues.

Or simply
-Momentum - This unit deals +10% more damage in melee (up to 200%) for each tile traveled this turn.

Please, don't lock bunnies (or any other species) as prey-only

Don't worry, "vegetarian" trait should be applied to any unit with unchecked "can vore" box , it's a balance measure and I only added it to bunnies because I was tired and am dumb.
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Re: Vore War V14C

Postby Aurilika » Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:02 pm

GreenSlime wrote:Race traits

Definitely gives me a good starting ground for racial traits. I may end up changing things around, we'll see how they feel when I'm implementing them.

Turbotowns wrote:Slimes should be immune to this, as they are capable of absorbing anything.

Well, the example he gave me was a fire elemental. I suppose it's a matter of interpretation how well a slime could eat a fire elemental.

Randulf wrote:Was wondering if you could make a quick update to add two small features
A way to set income of villages per faction
And a way to change vagrants tactical AI and max army size and maybe their spawn rate

So, would those villages change income levels when they change factions as basically a handicap, or would they just affect their starting villages specificially?
At some point I do need provide a means to adjust the Vagrants. The tactical AI is tricky because several vagrant components, like fleeing, only exist in the non-legacy AI. I could technically move that over, but it may be better to do away with the old legacy AI, and split off a version of the good tactical AI that just makes poorer choices.

Tira wrote:Please, don't lock bunnies (or any other species) as prey-only

It will always be optional. I'm a big fan of giving options, as you may have noticed from the content screen.

GreenSlime wrote:Even then pounce is too weak in its current incarnation.
The alternative is give cats back what I originally proposed - their attack leaves them part of their MP, letting them reposition after strike. Although I like the "charge attack" idea too. Maybe:
-Leap strike - Moves unit to the random tile near the chosen enemy within 5-tile range. If enemy has no free tiles around them, it cannot be chosen. Then this unit attacks enemy for (weapon damage + STR bonus) +15% for each tile passed (so, 175% damage for 5 tiles) - though this can potentially lead to some funny coding issues.

That could work. My interpretation would be similar, but maybe something like if within 4 tiles, can pounce to move next to the enemy if there's a free tile and get an attack with 25% bonus damage with a melee weapon. Passing through units and terrain can already be a decently big advantage in certain situations. Could possibly have a vore pounce variant as well, considering that that is a thing I've seen a few times on this site. That would also make pounce useful for ranged units as well. The vore version might need a trade-off that if it fails they take damage or take an immediate counterattack.


As a status update. So, family is in town again, so progress will be a little slower this week. Currently I'm working on getting the clothes in, and some minor features, changes and bug fixes. (As an example, don't try to convert an empty village to tigers or goblins, as that results in many game errors because I didn't think to plan for that. It will be fixed in the next patch though, probably just as making it your standard race). Once I finish that stuff up sometime this week, I'll put out a patch for that, and then start implementing the race properties.
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Re: Vore War V14C

Postby Randulf » Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:27 pm

Aurilika wrote:So, would those villages change income levels when they change factions as basically a handicap, or would they just affect their starting villages specificially?

I was thinking the faction as a whole
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Re: Vore War V14C

Postby NekoYuki » Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:41 pm

I would like to see some more defence upgrades for towns if possible, like arrow towers maybe, or one way wall slits or such. Possibly a healing fountain or AOE buff statue, things to give variety. maybe if possible add some seige units later? A Ram for catapult/ballista for dealing with walls or maybe even added gates. maybe i'm going a bit far. But i fondly remember seiging cities in Rome II
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Re: Vore War V14C

Postby DollyFailFail » Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:38 pm

NekoYuki wrote:I would like to see some more defence upgrades for towns if possible, like arrow towers maybe, or one way wall slits or such. Possibly a healing fountain or AOE buff statue, things to give variety. maybe if possible add some seige units later? A Ram for catapult/ballista for dealing with walls or maybe even added gates. maybe i'm going a bit far. But i fondly remember seiging cities in Rome II

I'm not sure about straight up Seige-weapons, this is a fetish game after all. That being said I feel like siege units that mostly take the form of just big, powerful creatures could definitely be an option. I've already got a few ideas that would probably work in such a role.
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Re: Vore War V14C

Postby LostSoul13 » Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:47 pm

GreenSlime wrote:A very good point. I've actually been discussing potential balance changes between light and heavy weapons (light weapons being more accurate and heavy weapons requiring separate building to make), so I've been writing traits with that in consideration. Even then pounce is too weak in its current incarnation.

The alternative is give cats back what I originally proposed - their attack leaves them part of their MP, letting them reposition after strike. Although I like the "charge attack" idea too. Maybe:

-Leap strike - Moves unit to the random tile near the chosen enemy within 5-tile range. If enemy has no free tiles around them, it cannot be chosen. Then this unit attacks enemy for (weapon damage + STR bonus) +15% for each tile passed (so, 175% damage for 5 tiles) - though this can potentially lead to some funny coding issues.

Or simply
-Momentum - This unit deals +10% more damage in melee (up to 200%) for each tile traveled this turn.


I really like the sound of Momentum, and it's definitely much simpler than what I'd thought up before. That leap strike is also an interesting variant on the charge attack style, especially with the random tile placement. It adds a bit more risk to the attack if used on an enemy who is already in a dangerous position. I also like your idea of being able to reposition after a strike, I'd come up with something similar before with the "kiter" trait, but that was for ranged attacks and also had a range penalty. As for my opinion on weapon balancing, it'd also make sense for heavy weapons to reduce total MP, because they're, well, heavy. Trying to decide how much MP they reduce (percentage? flat amount?) would be much trickier though.
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Re: Vore War V14C

Postby Aurilika » Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:37 pm

Randulf wrote:
Aurilika wrote:So, would those villages change income levels when they change factions as basically a handicap, or would they just affect their starting villages specificially?

I was thinking the faction as a whole

I meant if other factions captured those villages from them, would they give the normal amount of income to the new owner, or the adjusted amount of income? Like is the bonus/penalty just for that one race, or any race that owns that set of villages?

NekoYuki wrote:I would like to see some more defence upgrades for towns if possible, like arrow towers maybe, or one way wall slits or such. Possibly a healing fountain or AOE buff statue, things to give variety. maybe if possible add some seige units later? A Ram for catapult/ballista for dealing with walls or maybe even added gates. maybe i'm going a bit far. But i fondly remember seiging cities in Rome II

Well, I had mostly designed towers units could climb up in for extra range that were included with the walls upgrade. Then I realized that the defenders already had a significant advantage with being able to field twice as many units, so they probably didn't need the extra help and scrapped them. I suppose you could introduce siege weapons to counterbalance them, but maybe that would come at some point down the road.
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Re: Vore War V14C

Postby Randulf » Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:42 pm

Aurilika wrote:
Randulf wrote:
Aurilika wrote:So, would those villages change income levels when they change factions as basically a handicap, or would they just affect their starting villages specificially?

I was thinking the faction as a whole

I meant if other factions captured those villages from them, would they give the normal amount of income to the new owner, or the adjusted amount of income? Like is the bonus/penalty just for that one race, or any race that owns that set of villages?

I meant faction as in race. So if bunnies have 200% income all villages owned by them even conquered ones would gain that 200% bonus but citys that they loose would not give the bonus to enemies who control them
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Re: Vore War V14C

Postby MikhailOberchav » Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:11 am

what options do you need to have selected in order to use the second stomach on lamia's? or do you just need a certain amount of prey?
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Re: Vore War V14C

Postby KuroTenko » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:14 am

After Months of lurking and enjoying the updates, wanted to say if done right, the frame work needed to add racial abilities could also make it easier to add other actions such as alternative Vore types. That will be quite the refactor though.

In the meantime I managed to hack in unbirth as a sort of special action. Prey is basically drained of exp until they are finally released as a unit under your control.

VWUnbirthPatch14A.zip
(226.39 KiB) Downloaded 121 times


Some tinkering required. I attached a zip of my changes, but I am not sure if the changed files can just be pasted into the source, especially since i added a special action button in the tactical UI. Maybe giving Aurilika some hacks and code mods will get some implementation ideas flowing on racial abilities though.

p.s. really enjoying the new sprites, great job GreenSlime!
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