Vore War V19D

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Re: Vore War V18B

Postby Turbotowns » Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:12 pm

Can there be a function, that like for end of battle, if one side is human controlled(or choose to be human controlled during battle with cheats), after one side is dead(if the surviving side is human controlled), the "fight" can continue and we can end it whenever afterwards(like maybe change the skip battle button the "END" battle). The purpose would be(after it's implemented) sexy times between our units, or well, some good old fashioned cannibalism(which we can already do with surrendering, if the "manually end each turn" is selected, but it suddenly ends once the last enemy is absorbed, or if auto-surrender is on, just don't eat the last surrendered enemy until you want to end it).

And with that, being able to "enter battle" with our armies, when there isn't an opponent, for those two purposes(and naturally, if it's in a city, the garrison joins).



Oh yeah... The AI knows how to build the new buildings right?


And we should be able to see/use the empire button during our allies turn as well(and view the armies like we'd be able to during an all AI game).
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Re: Vore War V18B

Postby Anesthetic » Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:06 am

Pardon if the topic has been broached before, but has magic/support type units ever been considered?

Like units who can shrink or slow enemies for easier devourment, or cast support type upgrades on allies, maybe stuff like barrier to prevent enemies from going a direction, or even just fun little tweaks like Hammer Space Pred?
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Re: Vore War V18B

Postby GreenSlime » Sat Feb 02, 2019 6:56 am

Yo! Aurilika!
Let me show you how serious about the sword idea I am...


That sword looks amazing. I look forward to seeing other sprites (in meantime i'll be bringing other weapons up to its standards, especially ones i made early on). We have been discussing something like rare/legendary weapon system, so it could fit in there nicely.

The problem with weapons in general is that they're a lot more work than expected, and as races get added and added and added and added to the game it's more and more work (pic related). I'm still considering alternate weapon types for races (maybe something unique for each race to differentiate them more?), but for rares/artifacts i feel like there are two solutions -

Not specifying their weapon type so it just morphs into whatever weapon race naturally has. The boring bad no good solution.
Actually drawing up unique sprites - the labor intensive but better solution.
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Re: Vore War V18B

Postby Turbotowns » Sat Feb 02, 2019 7:24 am

Giddy-up Unicorn Slime!
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Re: Vore War V18B

Postby Aurilika » Sat Feb 02, 2019 2:15 pm

Orosaki wrote:a couple of ideas i had

I sort of hesitate to have variable speed armies, because then you have no idea if enemy armies can reach you or not in the next turn, and it just creates a bigger snowball. I suppose it could work as an entirely optional thing though, but we'll see.
Units passively training other units might be a good idea.
As for new weapons, they would be interesting, but they may result in bogging down play to check weapon types, unless they all had unique sprites, which may get impractical with several races requiring their own versions of weapons.
Siege weapons would be interesting, but I'd probably be more inclined to go with something like the lords of the Realm 2 system, where an attacking army can spend an extra turn or two before they attack a village to construct siege weapons.
I would probably make monster dens something that spawns in the wild, because if they only were created when a village was lost to monsters with that one specific monster pillage setting, very few players would ever see them.

Katar wrote:I really do like the monster den idea. Maybe have it so once a monster den is created the random spawns no longer occur but the den spawns them more aggressively/larger? I would like to see some more humanoid monster races though if it were possible. Animal vore never really did much for me, but that's just a personal preference.

Well, more humanoid monster races are where the planned bandits come in. (Granted, their behavior will be slightly different than monsters)

Winny wrote:Just an idea, don't know if its been floated around. Was wondering about ways to create a connection more to the characters and the player character, while we do have some fluff about what happens to characters on the field we don't really have responses from the characters themselves.
Above a character maybe we could have like a small speech bubble containing small sentences from the character. Such as the situation at the time, fighting, maybe some race against race dialog or vore dialog, taunting prey, pleading prey, ectect.
Or maybe have another smaller chat window off to the side with the name of the character and what they are saying at any given time.
Obviously this could branch off into different things. X character has X personality so will say Y in V situation, and simply build on that. Bring more character to the units in the game and such.

Sounds good, but I think it would be tricky to fit much text in a small window near the character, I might just incorporate it into the combat log.

Unfortunate wrote:Yo! Aurilika!
Let me show you how serious about the sword idea I am...

SomeSwords.png

Feel free to use them. I did my best to mimic the default look of the weapons GreenSlime made (You do a good job BTW...!), and I've added both a blue and a gold version: So you can have a certain skin for each race; ie. the Cats, Humans and Lamia use the gold one, and the Dogs, Wolves and Bunnies use the blue one? Your pick.
I can make more for the other races gradually: The ones with the unique themed weapons... but that's only if you all confirm nobody else is going to do it... I'm a slow worker. >.>


Those look good. I'll stick the systems for them in the to-do list. Somewhere higher up because there's a lot in there.

Turbotowns wrote:Can there be a function, that like for end of battle, if one side is human controlled(or choose to be human controlled during battle with cheats), after one side is dead(if the surviving side is human controlled), the "fight" can continue and we can end it whenever afterwards(like maybe change the skip battle button the "END" battle). The purpose would be(after it's implemented) sexy times between our units, or well, some good old fashioned cannibalism(which we can already do with surrendering, if the "manually end each turn" is selected, but it suddenly ends once the last enemy is absorbed, or if auto-surrender is on, just don't eat the last surrendered enemy until you want to end it).

And with that, being able to "enter battle" with our armies, when there isn't an opponent, for those two purposes(and naturally, if it's in a city, the garrison joins).

Oh yeah... The AI knows how to build the new buildings right?

And we should be able to see/use the empire button during our allies turn as well(and view the armies like we'd be able to during an all AI game).


So you'd prefer having it handled that way than the feed option in the army screen you suggested before? I'm not quite how all the lewd stuff will be handled yet, there was talk about making it after battle, but like many things, it's sort of fluctuating around and hard to keep track of.

They do build the new buildings. They may not build them in exactly the most efficient manner, but if they have spare money they'll definitely buy all the buildings they think are useful.

I don't really see the advantage of being able to check that when it's not your turn, but I'll go ahead and stick it in because it's fast to do.

Anesthetic wrote:Pardon if the topic has been broached before, but has magic/support type units ever been considered?

Like units who can shrink or slow enemies for easier devourment, or cast support type upgrades on allies, maybe stuff like barrier to prevent enemies from going a direction, or even just fun little tweaks like Hammer Space Pred?


Magic will be coming somewhat soon, within the next couple of major patches. Shrink, support spells and barriers are part of the spec, but slow currently isn't, but that would certainly fit.
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Re: Vore War V18B

Postby RedInstead » Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:17 pm

any plans to add more special mercenaries?
maybe have them specialize in certain things, other than just generally being really strong in combat
a few ideas:
-a unit that takes up more than one space and is very durable
-Something that can stun like the Vagrants
-maybe one that could move allied units (for getting them out of really bad spots)
-a really attack oriented ranged unit... rather than like Selicia who's very vore oriented
these are just ideas that I've been thinking about... I'm not so sure how easy/difficult it is to do any of this so don't take any of this too seriously.

LOVE the game btw :)
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Re: Vore War V18B

Postby Turbotowns » Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:23 pm

Well, a feed option wouldn't necessarily give as much exp, nor would it allow some visuals to... enjoy it.

That's good...

Not so much advantage as convenience(and, if I was curious about something, I'd be able to check it without having to wait for my turn, as well as being able to still check it if I forget about it until after I hit Enter).
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Re: Vore War V18B

Postby Turbotowns » Sat Feb 02, 2019 7:09 pm

So what does the Capital Palace do? I haven't gotten one yet, I guess I'll have to buy it and then it'll show it's effects on the side?
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Re: Vore War V18B

Postby Aurilika » Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:00 pm

RedInstead wrote:any plans to add more special mercenaries?
maybe have them specialize in certain things, other than just generally being really strong in combat
a few ideas:
-a unit that takes up more than one space and is very durable
-Something that can stun like the Vagrants
-maybe one that could move allied units (for getting them out of really bad spots)
-a really attack oriented ranged unit... rather than like Selicia who's very vore oriented
these are just ideas that I've been thinking about... I'm not so sure how easy/difficult it is to do any of this so don't take any of this too seriously.

LOVE the game btw :)


There are some that are being worked on or planned. I won't name any of them specifically because they may change, but I will say that GreenSlime has floated a few interesting possibilities.

Thank you for the compliment!

Turbotowns wrote:Well, a feed option wouldn't necessarily give as much exp, nor would it allow some visuals to... enjoy it.
That's good...
Not so much advantage as convenience(and, if I was curious about something, I'd be able to check it without having to wait for my turn, as well as being able to still check it if I forget about it until after I hit Enter).


Well, getting full experience for devouring a helpless unit is perhaps an oversight, but I will grant that it would cater to other possibilities. I'll stick it in, but it might be a little while.
Okay, I went ahead and added checking the empire list or viewing allied armies to the game. It was slightly more work than I expected, but it allowed me to clearly set 3 different modes for that screen - self, ally and observer, which each have their own levels of permissions. (so you can't buy units, etc. during an allies turn)

Okay, I went ahead and stuck the detailed description in game, but since you won't see it until the next patch, here's what the Capital Palace does "+16 Max Garrison, +50% wealth generation, +100 wealth (gold/turn) +50% max population, +20 farms"
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Re: Vore War V18B

Postby Orosaki » Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:48 pm

Polearms will differentiate their appearance based on the shape and size of the spear head, swords will differentiate themselves by the blade shape/width/length as well as the guard, a longbow has the same appearance as a bow except it's stretched out to be as long as the character wielding it, heater and kite shield look the same with the difference between them being the size. They also use the race's color in their design. Given that these weapons are being bought in the bazaar it makes sense to not have them be unique in appearance to any race.

Monster dens should indeed probably spawn in the wild, but cities should still be able to be made into a monster den as an optional feature too. Although technically spawned monster dens are destroyed while cities made intoo monster dens are recaptured and stuff.

I feel like siege weapons should be bought from the bazaar, they' be balanced out by the fact that they take up a unit slot and still require yet another unit in order to operate them, plus they are expensive and it would not be wise to face opponents that are too strong as defeat means they could steal the hard earned siege weapon. The siege weapon will also limit the max move speed of the army and additionally prevents flight and reduces the options for army movement. Although thats only if you feel . Siege weapons can be disbanded and will participate in defensive battles as part of the garrison. Which makes them pretty darn useful for defenders if you manage to get one to a city.

although with siege weapons maybe you should have a poll to see what everyone else would like as far as seeing siege weapons implemented.
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Re: Vore War V18B

Postby Turbotowns » Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:51 pm

The cats can't vore pounce surrendered allies.

Aurilika wrote:Okay, I went ahead and stuck the detailed description in game, but since you won't see it until the next patch, here's what the Capital Palace does "+16 Max Garrison, +50% wealth generation, +100 wealth (gold/turn) +50% max population, +20 farms"


Damn nice!
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Re: Vore War V18B

Postby Katar » Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:57 pm

In regards to army movement, I could see it being the case that smaller armies get to be faster. I.E. An army of 5 units gets all 6/6 MP while a max sized army of 32 gets only 1/6 MP along with other modifiers.

Question about army sizes actually: It seems that armies are always formed at the maximum amount possible if they can help it. No attempt at making smaller units. If possible could the towns themselves be given autonomy by the A.I. when making armies? For example, the capital with max population always produces its maximum sized armies to go out and fight. Meanwhile, a smaller village with only 12 villagers produces small hunting bands out to fight? Is something like that a possibility?
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Re: Vore War V18B

Postby dddddd2 » Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:24 am

Can you make the AITimer in EndTurn() adjustable too? I feel like 1 is too long :P
And loving the increasing variety in the tactical message log, but the text is getting cut off when playing in a smaller window (maybe make the text smaller or break them into multiple lines)
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Re: Vore War V18B

Postby Annoynimouse » Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:30 am

@Aurilika:
Where do the UI layouts live?
I'm trying to add a dropdown and button for adding traits to the CheatMenu -> UnitEditor, but I cannot for the life of me find a prefab or file that defines its layout.

On faster armies:
I had originally put in the change meant just for myself, as I hate that one army can end up chasing another army for multiple turns and not catch up.
But I think you are correct, the speed thing scales too well.
I would now instead suggest this:
* If an army is less than half its maximum size, then +1 movement. If less than 25% its max size, then +2 movement. (Losing armies can retreat, or you can make weaker but more mobile armies.)
* Once abilities / traits from level-ups are implemented, allow specific abilities that boost the army's movement.


Also, attached is scripts for changes based on for 18B.
If any of the below changes are unwanted, let me know and I'll take it out and repost the scripts.
Changes included:
* .Health > 0 and .Health < 1 and similar checks replaced with IsDead parameter (which is just a a Health <= 0 check, but it makes the code a bit more readable).
* Similar IsDeadAndOverKilled function added for things like .Health < (-2 * MaxHealth)
* Similar IsThisCloseToDead function added for things like .Health < 1 + PreyDamage
* Village buildings can now cost experience (paid from Leader's experience). Normal buildings unaffected. Crazy buildings have some that have costs like this. No balance done yet.
* Properly moved the building classes to their own files.
* Cleaned up some of the check code in VIllageView, added helper functions to village buildings for cost and to village for buying all.
* Village Buildings can now boost income of team (Crazy buildings have markets and merchant buildings that do this.)
* Properly hide building options from village list if that building can never be built (i.e. Capital palace in village that are not the capital.)
* Rename Drain to DrainExp
* Rename Damage to ReduceHealth
* New Actor function Damage that handle health reduction and related notification (display and sound) functions (existing code, just moved to function).


Current aim (let me know if I am entirely off course):
I'm currently slowly working towards a Heroes of might and magic style resources. I.e. multiple resources, obtained from map pickups or map claimable buildings that produce it over time, or ultimately village based buildings that produce it.

Afterwards:
Mix in some aspects from Age of Wonders such as research, global spells, hero and leader distinctions, and village / building / fortress expansion on strategic map.
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Re: Vore War V18B

Postby Aurilika » Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:45 pm

Orosaki wrote:Polearms will differentiate their appearance based on the shape and size of the spear head, swords will differentiate themselves by the blade shape/width/length as well as the guard, a longbow has the same appearance as a bow except it's stretched out to be as long as the character wielding it, heater and kite shield look the same with the difference between them being the size. They also use the race's color in their design. Given that these weapons are being bought in the bazaar it makes sense to not have them be unique in appearance to any race.

Monster dens should indeed probably spawn in the wild, but cities should still be able to be made into a monster den as an optional feature too. Although technically spawned monster dens are destroyed while cities made intoo monster dens are recaptured and stuff.

I feel like siege weapons should be bought from the bazaar, they' be balanced out by the fact that they take up a unit slot and still require yet another unit in order to operate them, plus they are expensive and it would not be wise to face opponents that are too strong as defeat means they could steal the hard earned siege weapon. The siege weapon will also limit the max move speed of the army and additionally prevents flight and reduces the options for army movement. Although thats only if you feel . Siege weapons can be disbanded and will participate in defensive battles as part of the garrison. Which makes them pretty darn useful for defenders if you manage to get one to a city.

although with siege weapons maybe you should have a poll to see what everyone else would like as far as seeing siege weapons implemented.


Okay. I'll take some notes for when the bazaar eventually makes it in.

Okay, I may work that functionality for a second type of monster den like that.

For siege, I was thinking them being more used for actual sieges, but then you have villages. If you design them so that you need siege equipment to take them, then villages far from a bazaar would be mostly untouchable. Well, that would be a while off, but I'll make a note to have some kind of poll on it when it gets closer.

Turbotowns wrote:The cats can't vore pounce surrendered allies.


Well, that should be pretty quick to add, so I guess I'll go ahead and allow it.

Katar wrote:In regards to army movement, I could see it being the case that smaller armies get to be faster. I.E. An army of 5 units gets all 6/6 MP while a max sized army of 32 gets only 1/6 MP along with other modifiers.

Question about army sizes actually: It seems that armies are always formed at the maximum amount possible if they can help it. No attempt at making smaller units. If possible could the towns themselves be given autonomy by the A.I. when making armies? For example, the capital with max population always produces its maximum sized armies to go out and fight. Meanwhile, a smaller village with only 12 villagers produces small hunting bands out to fight? Is something like that a possibility?


Making smaller armies faster might be a good mechanic. That gives some incentive to have smaller armies. The AI (at least the smarter AI) tends to try and make full size armies because full size armies are several times more powerful than smaller armies. (Depending on how the battle plays out, a 16 person army is 2 to 4 times as strong as an 8 person army (closer to 2 at few attacks per death, and 4 at more attacks per death) Would these essentially be autonomous armies, even for players? I mean it's certainly possible, but would they just randomly engage enemies?, They'd probably be weak enough that they'd lose to most monsters, and are their weapons generated for free?

dddddd2 wrote:Can you make the AITimer in EndTurn() adjustable too? I feel like 1 is too long :P
And loving the increasing variety in the tactical message log, but the text is getting cut off when playing in a smaller window (maybe make the text smaller or break them into multiple lines)

Okay, I'll either shorten it or make it adjustable. I'll make adjustments to it so that it properly splits at lower resolutions.

Annoynimouse wrote:@Aurilika:
Where do the UI layouts live?
I'm trying to add a dropdown and button for adding traits to the CheatMenu -> UnitEditor, but I cannot for the life of me find a prefab or file that defines its layout.

On faster armies:
I had originally put in the change meant just for myself, as I hate that one army can end up chasing another army for multiple turns and not catch up.
But I think you are correct, the speed thing scales too well.
I would now instead suggest this:
* If an army is less than half its maximum size, then +1 movement. If less than 25% its max size, then +2 movement. (Losing armies can retreat, or you can make weaker but more mobile armies.)
* Once abilities / traits from level-ups are implemented, allow specific abilities that boost the army's movement.

Current aim (let me know if I am entirely off course):
I'm currently slowly working towards a Heroes of might and magic style resources. I.e. multiple resources, obtained from map pickups or map claimable buildings that produce it over time, or ultimately village based buildings that produce it.

Afterwards:
Mix in some aspects from Age of Wonders such as research, global spells, hero and leader distinctions, and village / building / fortress expansion on strategic map.


So, I went ahead and merged in almost all of the changes.

Well, the UI prefabs are all in the Prefabs/UI section, though there isn't one that exists for the Dropdown at the moment. Nested prefabs didn't exist for most of this project, so the dropdowns were usually inside of another prefab and not even possible to separate. There is a button in that folder though. I went ahead and added the dropdown and button to my dev version.

Like Katar suggested above, I think making smaller armies faster is probably a good idea. I think army speed upgrades could work, but having them based on an individual unit's trait feels odd. I'd be more apt to use something previously suggested where armies can have upgrades they pay maintenance on (like having, say, a wagon that speeds them up, but costs some amount of gold each turn.)

I mean that's not the direction I'm headed at the moment, but you can work on what you'd like. If I think it directly suits, I'd just merge it in and perhaps make changes to it, if not, I can make it a mod like I did for the "Crazy buildings"
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Re: Vore War V18B

Postby Turbotowns » Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:51 am

Annoynimouse wrote:Mix in some aspects from Age of Wonders such as research, global spells, hero and leader distinctions, and village / building / fortress expansion on strategic map.


I definitely love me some research.
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Re: Vore War V18B

Postby Pawz » Mon Feb 04, 2019 5:33 am

Played with some of the maps others have made, decided to take things in a different direction by making a purely challenge map. This also segways into a feature that would help with these sort of maps, the ability to save some settings to the map itself.

Setup
-Copy Cork6.map to Instaldir\Win64\UserData\Maps.
-Copy the settings included in the zip.
-Disable the AI for one of the races (not bunnies).
-Capture all Capitols to win.
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Re: Vore War V18B

Postby Turbotowns » Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:50 am

Hmmm... after filling their garrison, they build the mill, manor, and trainer... but then they prioritize armies almost entirely, and since exp doesn't carry over to team mates until the Warriors Guild is constructed(in Crazy Buildings obviously), they all stay at lvl1, at least for a LONG time(longer than I've been playing at least).
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Re: Vore War V18B

Postby Rando11 » Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:42 am

Hi!

Big thank to all for developing such a great game.

I have played Vore War V17E (Win64) until yesterday. After updating to V18B (Win64) I played the game again. With V17E in tactical mode using the move order I had a zone, what my unit could reach and another zone for the range of the weapon, if it had a ranged weapon. But now with V18B it is gone. Neither a zone for moving, nor a zone for the range. I liked the feature a lot for the best move order. I have read nothing about it in the patch notes or in this thread since introducing V17E. So why was it removed? Is it a problem with the right click feature?

I haven't controlled the versions between V17E and V18B, so I cannot say which version is the problem.
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Re: Vore War V18B

Postby Aurilika » Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:05 pm

Pawz wrote:Played with some of the maps others have made, decided to take things in a different direction by making a purely challenge map. This also segways into a feature that would help with these sort of maps, the ability to save some settings to the map itself.


Ah, that's an interesting little map. I'll add a note to try and tackle that when I start working on the ability to save the start screen, I have an idea about how I could implement it.

Turbotowns wrote:Hmmm... after filling their garrison, they build the mill, manor, and trainer... but then they prioritize armies almost entirely, and since exp doesn't carry over to team mates until the Warriors Guild is constructed(in Crazy Buildings obviously), they all stay at lvl1, at least for a LONG time(longer than I've been playing at least).


Well, most of that is the way the AI currently spends money. They try to maintain a certain amount of active troops based on their income. A lot of the crazy buildings are rather expensive, so they'll basically have to wait until they reach their army quota before buying any of the expensive buildings (at least, with how they are set up right now, I am doing some AI work, but I'm not sure if I'll be tackling that at this point). If you lower the maximum amount of armies they can make that would force them to save up more money when they hit the cap and they'd end up buying the more expensive buildings.

Rando11 wrote:I have played Vore War V17E (Win64) until yesterday. After updating to V18B (Win64) I played the game again. With V17E in tactical mode using the move order I had a zone, what my unit could reach and another zone for the range of the weapon, if it had a ranged weapon. But now with V18B it is gone. Neither a zone for moving, nor a zone for the range. I liked the feature a lot for the best move order. I have read nothing about it in the patch notes or in this thread since introducing V17E. So why was it removed? Is it a problem with the right click feature?

I haven't controlled the versions between V17E and V18B, so I cannot say which version is the problem.

There was a bug where the fog of war would sometimes carry over into the tactical screen (not actually effect anything, just the shading). I fixed that bug, but it had the side effect of hiding the movement grid overlay. I didn't notice until it was pointed out to me, but it is fixed and will be functioning normally again in the next version.
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