Vore War V34A

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Re: Vore War V33

Postby Turbotowns » Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:55 pm

peteian wrote:
Turbotowns wrote:
Cravingus wrote:I meant to ask: are you gonna keep main race fairies as just a mod or are you gonna add them eventually?

I don't remember why but i had issues when downloading the mod and getting it to work so i just gave up hoping that eventually they would become an actual thing.


Probably cause the mod is for an EARLIER version. It's no longer compatible. Would be nice if it at least stayed up to date.

------------------------------

Also... y'know, I think we all feared the worst when you announced that you were done with this project(more or less), and I expected someone else to take over chief development. But nothing really changed, aside from you merely shifting focus to your other project.


There are mods? Where?


Well, two of them are inlaid into the main game(Kuro Tenko is the Vore/Misc Options tab of the Content settings. And Annoynimouse's Extended Buildings mod in the Game Settings Tab of the Create Strategic menu).

There was also a mod a while ago that made the fairies from monsters, into a main race, but it hasn't been updated(seemingly, I'd imagine if it has, the dev would be making recent posts since the original one got buried).

---------------

ALSO! I noticed a green sparkly effect coming off of some of my armies? What's up with that?

Later:

OH! It went away after I leveled them up! Interesting!

grozar wrote:This one strikes me as a lovely combination of X-com and heroes of might and magic...


X-com? XD
There are two distinct traits of X-com's that I think of that sets it apart from most (T/S)RPGs: The unit progression(Instead of levels, your units get "promotions", going through military ranks, that we also can't see WHEN they will get a promotion(Both kills and surviving missions earns progress, but there's no gauge to indicate when they will earn it, the only predictable promotion is rookie to squaddie(if they survive their 1st mission even if they don't fire a single bullet, they'll promote))), and the cover mechanic(the cover mechanic is probably the one that EVERYONE thinks of when it's brought up), Mario+Rabbids could be compared to it, BECAUSE of it's cover mechanic. It'd be more accurate to compare this to Fire Emblem, what with the LACK of a cover mechanic, and typical leveled based progression.

Sorry, didn't mean to critique your praise/comparison, I just take my Tactical RPGs seriously, and when I read that, I couldn't stay silent. XD
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Re: Vore War V33

Postby Aurilika » Thu Feb 04, 2021 11:07 pm

Dragonlord wrote:Alright, after testing the newest version a bit I found no overt bugs, but the new worm race might need to be toned down a tad, especially if they get turned into a player race. That first attack really does do obscene levels of damage (managed to get one to do 57 damage) and while afterwards they're reduced to doing 4-6 damage and moving 2-3 spaces they've already done so much damage and are already among the enemy that they still usually win against most foes. They aren't mantis or jelly fish broken, but they are certainly on the more powerful end of the monster spectrum.


Well, they are pretty powerful at low levels, but as levels rise and it takes more attacks to kill someone, they effectively get weaker. Besides, they're probably still less powerful than some of the extreme races (like dragons). They can always be rare, disabled, or have the trait stripped from them by the player as well.

Cravingus wrote:I meant to ask: are you gonna keep main race fairies as just a mod or are you gonna add them eventually?

I don't remember why but i had issues when downloading the mod and getting it to work so i just gave up hoping that eventually they would become an actual thing.

I don't really remember all that was involved with that mod, but it might have been made mostly obsolete by the ability to cheat-replace races.

benrowe91 wrote:Are there any spells that make a predator spew up his prey? Or makes it more likely they can escape.

Would be a cool addition

That spell may work it's way in eventually.

Turbotowns wrote:Also... y'know, I think we all feared the worst when you announced that you were done with this project(more or less), and I expected someone else to take over chief development. But nothing really changed, aside from you merely shifting focus to your other project.

There didn't seem to be anyone willing to step up, and I probably would have just dropped it except for bug fixes if GreenSlime and Micadi weren't creating sprites for it, still. So usually I'll add on a little bit whenever there's a sprite update ready. Sometimes somebody will suggest something that's not too complicated and has good benefits and I'll add it in, but I tend to not go very ambitious for these patches.

grozar wrote:First off, I'll say you got yourself a patron Aurilika.

Thank you.

grozar wrote:-Voracity scales acid damage big time (magnitude of x10 if I interpreted the code correctly) contrary to what the tool-tips says, might be intended, but I'd suggest changing the wording on the tool-tip then.
-AI take decisions as if is not there fog of war. (this might simply be a case of being deliberate as it might make the AI a bit easy)
-Converted/reformed units who comes off a unit that is vored will spawn outside that unit and not inside it.
-Unchecking the "Race size limits weight gain" in the content menu, does what it says but it also resets once the theoretical max is reached, setting the weight to the lowest after the tactical.

As for Voracity, I think that's a misunderstanding.

This is the relevant code
Spoiler: show
float usedCapacity = TotalCapacity() - FreeCap();
float PredStomach = Mathf.Pow(unit.GetStat(Stat.Stomach) + 15, 1.5f);
float PredVoracity = Mathf.Pow(unit.GetStat(Stat.Voracity) + 15, 1.5f);
float preyEndurance = Mathf.Pow(preyUnit.Unit.GetStat(Stat.Endurance) + 15, 1.5f);
float preyWill = Mathf.Pow(preyUnit.Unit.GetStat(Stat.Will) + 15, 1.5f);
float predScore = 2 * (40 + PredStomach * 3 + PredVoracity) / (1f + ((usedCapacity - preyUnit.Actor.Bulk()) / usedCapacity));
float preyScore = ((preyEndurance + preyWill * .75f) / (1 + preyUnit.Actor.BodySize() / 40) + 300) / (1 + preyUnit.TurnsDigested / 5f);
predScore *= unit.TraitBoosts.Outgoing.DigestionRate;
preyScore /= preyUnit.Unit.TraitBoosts.Incoming.DigestionRate;
int damage = (int)Math.Round(predScore / preyScore);
if (damage < 1)
damage = 1;

The stomach stat counts 3 times as much towards digestion damage as voracity does, and stomach also increases the capacity, which gives it a bit of bonus in the second half of that line, so the actual effect is more than 3x.
Yeah, programming the AI to understand fog of war would have been quite a task and I think the fog gets relatively little use. Basically it's a player handicap.
The other two sound like bugs so I'll check them out.

Greedy is just kind of a flavor trait, but it does impact the AI if friendly regurgitation is on and vore is back and forth enough that a friendly unit ends up in another friendly.

Attack of opportunities could work, but would either result in a bunch of work on the AI, or it obliterating the AI in a lot of scenarios, so I'm not likely to tackle that.

The perma-belly was suggested before at one point visually, but I ended up not adding it for some reason.

grozar wrote:What I'd suggest is to split the skills into three categories upon leveling: offensive, defensive and vore.

That sounds like it could be an interesting system, but would be a major revamp at this point, messing with saved games and requiring modifications to the UI in a number of places.

Pleasure would also be an interesting system, but at this point I tend to just pick the occasional minor feature to stick in, in addition to bug fixes and the like.

Turbotowns wrote:ALSO! I noticed a green sparkly effect coming off of some of my armies? What's up with that?

Later:

OH! It went away after I leveled them up! Interesting!


Yeah, there was a graphical effect added to show when armies have a level up available back in V32.

V33B released. A few fixes and a requested more specific alternative to the next unit key.

33B:
Added shortcut keys to select the next melee unit, or the next ranged unit, by default they are ',' and '.' but they can be changed like any other binding in the launcher.
Fixed a few minor exceptions.
Fix for the earthworm spawners not being placeable.
Fixed some minor UI issues on the create tactical game screen.
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Re: Vore War V33

Postby grozar » Fri Feb 05, 2021 12:59 pm

Aurilika wrote:
grozar wrote:-Voracity scales acid damage big time (magnitude of x10 if I interpreted the code correctly) contrary to what the tool-tips says, might be intended, but I'd suggest changing the wording on the tool-tip then.
-AI take decisions as if is not there fog of war. (this might simply be a case of being deliberate as it might make the AI a bit easy)
-Converted/reformed units who comes off a unit that is vored will spawn outside that unit and not inside it.
-Unchecking the "Race size limits weight gain" in the content menu, does what it says but it also resets once the theoretical max is reached, setting the weight to the lowest after the tactical.

As for Voracity, I think that's a misunderstanding.

This is the relevant code
Spoiler: show
float usedCapacity = TotalCapacity() - FreeCap();
float PredStomach = Mathf.Pow(unit.GetStat(Stat.Stomach) + 15, 1.5f);
float PredVoracity = Mathf.Pow(unit.GetStat(Stat.Voracity) + 15, 1.5f);
float preyEndurance = Mathf.Pow(preyUnit.Unit.GetStat(Stat.Endurance) + 15, 1.5f);
float preyWill = Mathf.Pow(preyUnit.Unit.GetStat(Stat.Will) + 15, 1.5f);
float predScore = 2 * (40 + PredStomach * 3 + PredVoracity) / (1f + ((usedCapacity - preyUnit.Actor.Bulk()) / usedCapacity));
float preyScore = ((preyEndurance + preyWill * .75f) / (1 + preyUnit.Actor.BodySize() / 40) + 300) / (1 + preyUnit.TurnsDigested / 5f);
predScore *= unit.TraitBoosts.Outgoing.DigestionRate;
preyScore /= preyUnit.Unit.TraitBoosts.Incoming.DigestionRate;
int damage = (int)Math.Round(predScore / preyScore);
if (damage < 1)
damage = 1;

The stomach stat counts 3 times as much towards digestion damage as voracity does, and stomach also increases the capacity, which gives it a bit of bonus in the second half of that line, so the actual effect is more than 3x.
Yeah, programming the AI to understand fog of war would have been quite a task and I think the fog gets relatively little use. Basically it's a player handicap.
The other two sound like bugs so I'll check them out.


I stand corrected!
I could not find the part previously saw (was something on the lines of
Code: Select all
+2(10(voracity))
), I must have missunderstood it when glossing over the code when I was poking at it and it stuck to my mind.

Aurilika wrote:Greedy is just kind of a flavor trait, but it does impact the AI if friendly regurgitation is on and vore is back and forth enough that a friendly unit ends up in another friendly.

Yeah, I see, probably never saw that interaction as it requires a lot of "ifs" and since few units use it (if any?).
Would still propse some benefit to it, so that one might see it more often in the game and have to consider its ramifications tactically ^^


Aurilika wrote:
grozar wrote:What I'd suggest is to split the skills into three categories upon leveling: offensive, defensive and vore.

That sounds like it could be an interesting system, but would be a major revamp at this point, messing with saved games and requiring modifications to the UI in a number of places.

Pleasure would also be an interesting system, but at this point I tend to just pick the occasional minor feature to stick in, in addition to bug fixes and the like.


I saw that you mentioned somewhere that you were letting this game rest more or less while you focus on your other game, I understand that, take all that as me feeling the urge to share my shower thoughts. :)

I'm suspecting these games are an interesting way for you to explore developing different game mechanics, vore wars with its strategical elements and stat build up, along with diverse sprite animations and unbridled hedonism with its AI simulation. One is inclined to believe that you are planning to mash things up when you feel like you tested enough.
Maybe you already have divulged your long term plan on making these games somewhere though? (though I'd understand not be willing to share all ideas that you think would be fun to do, people tend to write those words in stone and haunt devs with them)
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Re: Vore War V33B

Postby GreenSlime » Sat Feb 13, 2021 11:23 am

Oh, right, i still exist.

Starting to work on implementing redesign of equines.
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Re: Vore War V33B

Postby Thibs » Sat Feb 13, 2021 1:32 pm

GreenSlime wrote:Oh, right, i still exist.

Starting to work on implementing redesign of equines.


Those look amazing! I love that you are all still working on this so hard!
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Re: Vore War V33B

Postby RandomSnivy » Sat Feb 13, 2021 3:21 pm

Two things I thought of, one that could be useful for certain game styles and the other that would just be cool imo

For the useful thing, I wish there was a trait that disallowed a unit from being recruited. I like to set up games where the AI has a powerful garrison that you really need to work up your army to overcome, but the AI just pulls those powerful garrison units into their army and messes up the power balance.

As for the cool thing, I think it'd be fun if elephants got implemented as a race (and/or feral species). Elephants are fun as preds and I wish they got more representation X3
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Re: Vore War V33B

Postby Deioth » Sat Feb 13, 2021 5:43 pm

GreenSlime wrote:Oh, right, i still exist.

Starting to work on implementing redesign of equines.


VERY promising. Did you also do the Tauros? If so, I'd be curious if there was some customization work being done for them so they have more than one pair of eyes at least ]:8P
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Re: Vore War V33B

Postby GreenSlime » Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:18 pm

Taurus are also on redesign list, though i haven't gotten to them just yet. And to be honest, there's quite a bit of that "just yet".
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Re: Vore War V33

Postby Aurilika » Mon Feb 15, 2021 7:38 pm

grozar wrote:I'm suspecting these games are an interesting way for you to explore developing different game mechanics, vore wars with its strategical elements and stat build up, along with diverse sprite animations and unbridled hedonism with its AI simulation. One is inclined to believe that you are planning to mash things up when you feel like you tested enough.
Maybe you already have divulged your long term plan on making these games somewhere though? (though I'd understand not be willing to share all ideas that you think would be fun to do, people tend to write those words in stone and haunt devs with them)


No, there's no long term plan of anything that fancy. Just me picking an interesting project and continuing until getting burnt out a bit with the sprites and some other stuff, then starting a project that's very different, with a focus on different characters with AI, since there didn't seem to be any vore games that were taking that approach. Also using my same 'flood you with options to customize your game' approach.

Honestly I'm not sure if there'd be a good way to combine the two games without making it into kind of a mess, but either way it's not something I plan to try. Next project would likely end up as something not vore related.

RandomSnivy wrote:Two things I thought of, one that could be useful for certain game styles and the other that would just be cool imo

For the useful thing, I wish there was a trait that disallowed a unit from being recruited. I like to set up games where the AI has a powerful garrison that you really need to work up your army to overcome, but the AI just pulls those powerful garrison units into their army and messes up the power balance.

As for the cool thing, I think it'd be fun if elephants got implemented as a race (and/or feral species). Elephants are fun as preds and I wish they got more representation X3


Would you want it as a trait, or maybe something more like any unit created as a garrison unit stays as one? Would have the side effect that the village couldn't recruit below how many garrison units it had created, but maybe that's fine for your purposes.

Well, it's up to the spriters what they want to work on, but Hippos may be as close as you'll get to that, but who knows.
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Re: Vore War V33B

Postby TNT00007 » Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:37 am

I noticed that a new monster called "earthworms" was added to the game. It has no means of attack and can only be used as "prey"?
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Re: Vore War V33B

Postby thefattestL » Thu Feb 18, 2021 12:41 am

TNT00007 wrote:I noticed that a new monster called "earthworms" was added to the game. It has no means of attack and can only be used as "prey"?

worm
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Re: Vore War V33B

Postby Turbotowns » Thu Feb 18, 2021 6:37 pm

GreenSlime wrote:Oh, right, i still exist.

Starting to work on implementing redesign of equines.


That looks WAY better than the "Tom ran into a mailbox" look they currently have(sorry to the OG artist, just a friendly roast).
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Re: Vore War V33B

Postby Aurilika » Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:27 pm

TNT00007 wrote:I noticed that a new monster called "earthworms" was added to the game. It has no means of attack and can only be used as "prey"?

They can attack and eat, so I'm not sure what's going on there unless you've run into some weird bug.
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Re: Vore War V33B

Postby RandomSnivy » Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:03 pm

Random thought: While they may not be able to tail-vore, I imagine the ant species could probably use their abdomen as a second stomach. I like adding the dualstomach trait to emulate this, though it'd be pretty cool if their sprite could show their abdomen bulging out like how it does with the bees.
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Re: Vore War V33B

Postby Cruelin660 » Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:18 pm

I Had a Spawned Kobold Through Unbirth that was Permanently Having their Back Showing to Screen, and it Persisted through the battle to the Army Screen and into another Battle, I believe this is some kind of Bug.

(I also had both Conversion and Rebirth on)
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Re: Vore War V33B

Postby RandomSnivy » Thu Mar 11, 2021 12:06 am

Cruelin660 wrote:I Had a Spawned Kobold Through Unbirth that was Permanently Having their Back Showing to Screen, and it Persisted through the battle to the Army Screen and into another Battle, I believe this is some kind of Bug.

(I also had both Conversion and Rebirth on)

Kobolds have a "prefered direction" option in their customization settings. One has them facing forwards normally, the other has them showing their rear normally
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Re: Vore War V33B

Postby DigestionArousal » Thu Mar 11, 2021 7:28 am

Howdy, just requesting a few traits
VoreIncapable, Prey without the experience bonus
EssenceAbsorption for individual stats instead of all of them, maybe with less digestions per point
DivineBloodline divided up into its individual components, so you can pick and choose what stuff increases with level

Dunno if anyone else wants these, but I think they could be neat.

Was also thinking about a Skeleton race and a raise dead spell that converts corpses or bones into a temporary ally, which is when VoreIncapable came to mind.
Don't know if I actually want it enough to request it but I might as well share it anyway.

Thanks for keeping at it Aurilika, it's good stuff.
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Re: Vore War V33B

Postby Cruelin660 » Thu Mar 11, 2021 11:20 am

DigestionArousal wrote:Howdy, just requesting a few traits
Was also thinking about a Skeleton race and a raise dead spell that converts corpses or bones into a temporary ally, which is when VoreIncapable came to mind.
Don't know if I actually want it enough to request it but I might as well share it anyway.


But Wouldn't a Skeleton be a New-Different Unit and therefore can be Naturally Incapable of Voring Targets right from the Gecko since....they Literally have no places to store creature/food for that matter because of their Lack of Living Cells.

But I'd like new units either way, and this could be a Halloween Update, which could include skeleton, Zombies, Ghouls, Witches, Werewolfs, and more.
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Re: Vore War V33B

Postby xmarkx » Thu Mar 11, 2021 8:12 pm

Cruelin660 wrote:
DigestionArousal wrote:Howdy, just requesting a few traits
Was also thinking about a Skeleton race and a raise dead spell that converts corpses or bones into a temporary ally, which is when VoreIncapable came to mind.
Don't know if I actually want it enough to request it but I might as well share it anyway.


But Wouldn't a Skeleton be a New-Different Unit and therefore can be Naturally Incapable of Voring Targets right from the Gecko since....they Literally have no places to store creature/food for that matter because of their Lack of Living Cells.

But I'd like new units either way, and this could be a Halloween Update, which could include skeleton, Zombies, Ghouls, Witches, Werewolfs, and more.


I think Skeletons could be vore-capable by having them have a "ghost" belly which is basically an ethereal belly. I remember on Discord someone made sprite work of a ghost race that never got into the game. Their vore bellies basically had little souls in them and a vore-capable skeleton could theoretically have the same thing
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Re: Vore War V33B

Postby Cruelin660 » Thu Mar 11, 2021 8:42 pm

xmarkx wrote:I think Skeletons could be vore-capable by having them have a "ghost" belly which is basically an ethereal belly. I remember on Discord someone made sprite work of a ghost race that never got into the game. Their vore bellies basically had little souls in them and a vore-capable skeleton could theoretically have the same thing


I do not like the Idea of a "Ghost Belly" since that would imply that they are More than Just 'Skeletons', I would rather have them be unable to 'Vore'(and the other forms) Not because they Cannot Vore but because Their Body just cannot hold foods because of their Obvious "Holes".
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