Ates - A Vore Card Game

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Re: Ates - A Vore Card Game

Postby FluffyLizardFunTime » Sat Jul 30, 2022 1:13 am

geoleo11 wrote:Is the public version with the AI and everything almost ready? I'm kinda excited for it.


So I currently want to do some work hammering out the rules; just waiting for an opportunity to playtest some ideas I've had that'll hopefully balance out the roles a little better. My major requirement for a public release is getting the multiplayer working. I've actually played a build where it does - and it's so exciting! - but obviously because I don't code, I don't know how well or how quickly that translates to being useable by a larger player base.

Best person to ask would be Sehnsucht - https://aryion.com/g4/user/Sehnsucht - but I already know he's working really hard at it. Honest answer is, probably soonish?
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Re: Ates - A Vore Card Game

Postby Sehnsucht » Sat Jul 30, 2022 7:26 am

geoleo11 wrote:Is the public version with the AI and everything almost ready? I'm kinda excited for it.


Glad to hear it ^^ We're currently piling everything into the effort. Every spare scrap of time I get is going into dev work and I know Raven is feverishly working on refining the gameplay. So excited to make this the best it can be and to get it out there.

FluffyLizardFunTime wrote:My major requirement for a public release is getting the multiplayer working. I've actually played a build where it does - and it's so exciting! - but obviously because I don't code, I don't know how well or how quickly that translates to being useable by a larger player base.


The first 80% is done. Now, as the joke goes, comes the second 80%. We have the capacity for two players to play the game with one another from across the web, which is frankly magic (I've never done anything like this before). Now come the thirteen hundred little tasks like handling network crashes, making it easy to invite your prey/predator, allowing the players to chat with one another on-screen, making sure games don't get out of sync, ... None of this work is insurmountable but it is a lot of medium-sized tasks.

Don't worry, we've been committed for three months so far and that's not going to change. I am vaguely-vaguely hopeful for a public release within two months, perhaps making multiplayer early access within one. But these are very subject to change. We'll keep you posted.

One thing's for sure: The game is thrilling to play with a human opponent, and will only get better. It'll be worth the wait.
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Re: Ates - A Vore Card Game

Postby Sehnsucht » Wed Sep 07, 2022 11:30 am

Greetings from the coder. Status update!

The game engine is such that Raven and I were able to play a series of games remotely. I had hoped to have an early release version by now but we instead spent time balancing a new ruleset that gives the predator a much richer game. We're excited to put it out there soon.

When I get back from holiday I'll start work immediately. I'm hoping to have an early-access multiplayer experience available no later than two weeks after that; so, no later than the 23rd of September. Note that our resident AIs, predator Minerva and obliging prey Francesca, may not have been taught the new rules. However, they will still have a go at eating/feeding you...

Raven and I remain very excited to get Ates in front of people. It's now beautiful, fun to play, and as soon as we're happy with the full game-playing experience, it'll be put in the hands of early adopters on Patreon. Will keep you posted!

In the meantime, Raven has finished a new book, Human-Full, available on Amazon or free to anyone at certain tiers of her Patreon. (She hasn't told me to write this or anything; I'm just independently enamoured.) It's a truly beautiful piece and I love it dearly.

Now... Suppose you had a link to the website, and could get a link to share with prospective predators/prey. What sort of vore do you envision playing? Would you be sharing on discord or Eka's chat or elsewhere? Would you mind if people watched, or would you like private games? Tell me what you'd like to see and we may be inspired to add it.
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Re: Ates - A Vore Card Game

Postby ryanshowseason3 » Wed Sep 07, 2022 2:36 pm

Developer question: How are you getting traffic across the internet?

Setting up a VPN so you're basically on the same network? Connecting to a communal server?

Also what language is used for this?
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Re: Ates - A Vore Card Game

Postby elions » Wed Sep 07, 2022 3:35 pm

I still haven't figured out how to play...I can only move the cards and that 's it . there are no moves or anything...do I need to do everything manually?
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Re: Ates - A Vore Card Game

Postby Ryuuenzan » Wed Sep 07, 2022 4:43 pm

Sehnsucht wrote:Greetings from the coder. Status update!

The game engine is such that Raven and I were able to play a series of games remotely. I had hoped to have an early release version by now but we instead spent time balancing a new ruleset that gives the predator a much richer game. We're excited to put it out there soon.

When I get back from holiday I'll start work immediately. I'm hoping to have an early-access multiplayer experience available no later than two weeks after that; so, no later than the 23rd of September. Note that our resident AIs, predator Minerva and obliging prey Francesca, may not have been taught the new rules. However, they will still have a go at eating/feeding you...

Raven and I remain very excited to get Ates in front of people. It's now beautiful, fun to play, and as soon as we're happy with the full game-playing experience, it'll be put in the hands of early adopters on Patreon. Will keep you posted!

In the meantime, Raven has finished a new book, Human-Full, available on Amazon or free to anyone at certain tiers of her Patreon. (She hasn't told me to write this or anything; I'm just independently enamoured.) It's a truly beautiful piece and I love it dearly.

Now... Suppose you had a link to the website, and could get a link to share with prospective predators/prey. What sort of vore do you envision playing? Would you be sharing on discord or Eka's chat or elsewhere? Would you mind if people watched, or would you like private games? Tell me what you'd like to see and we may be inspired to add it.


Thought I would give a direct answer to this, but I would likely share on discord. As for wether or not I would mind if people watched... I think it would be fun to have people watch, but being shy, I wouldnt want it to be known I was the one playing specifically? Perhaps an option could be to have players input names, yet have the option to be Anonymous? Its a thought at least.
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Re: Ates - A Vore Card Game

Postby Sehnsucht » Thu Sep 08, 2022 7:29 am

ryanshowseason3 wrote:Developer question: How are you getting traffic across the internet?


Chance to nerd out! The frontend is Typescript, everything being homebrew because this started as a project to really get to grips with frontend dev. The server is written in Haskell sitting behind nginx on a box I rent in the cloud. Currently the server is more or less ephemeral but persistent data will be set up at some point; probably use postgres, probably just with automated backups rather than anything professional grade. Deployment is automated but not quite to the degree of setting up CI/CD like Jenkins. I do like the idea of seeing that up so Raven can control which versions the public sees, though.

Craziest idea we have for tech is to apply GANs to the AI and let Minerva and Francesca teach themselves their own strategies... Currently they are hand-written using a number of heuristics we devised from play. But that's a way down the road.


elions wrote:I still haven't figured out how to play...I can only move the cards and that 's it . there are no moves or anything...do I need to do everything manually?


Do you see something like the first attachment? If not, you're not looking at our game. Possibly a mock-up on playingcards.io. You'll need to be on Patreon to get the early-access link. If so, you should be greeted by a dialog screen like the second attachment. Try clicking on Minerva's face (if you're prey) or Francesca's face (if you're pred) then click Go, then Deal. Minerva will move first, or you move first against Francesca. But yeah, for now you'll need the Patreon link.


Ryuuenzan wrote:Thought I would give a direct answer to this, but I would likely share on discord. As for wether or not I would mind if people watched... I think it would be fun to have people watch, but being shy, I wouldnt want it to be known I was the one playing specifically?


Thank you for your replies ^^ Everything will start anonymous, don't worry. Players will be able to input any name and it won't be permanent until we add the option. (We're excited about the potential for permavore, but it will always be opt-in.)
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Re: Ates - A Vore Card Game

Postby FluffyLizardFunTime » Fri Sep 16, 2022 1:33 am

Teensy update - we've pushed functional multiplayer to the live link on my patreon. You can now invite people to play with you via link-sharing and chat in-game ^///^ still early access for now, but I want to push it to public as soon as I know everything's working properly <3
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Re: Ates - A Vore Card Game

Postby FluffyLizardFunTime » Fri Sep 23, 2022 2:40 pm

public release ^///^ see post on first page
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Re: Ates - A Vore Card Game

Postby eleventh » Fri Sep 23, 2022 7:37 pm

I've been watching this for a while. This is probably somewhat odd feedback, but I like the card designs.
As someone without the inclination to play with others, I liked the bits of bot chat (as well there being bots to play against at all.)
I really need to just post things without rewriting them dozens of times.
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Re: Ates - A Vore Card Game

Postby reptilemk5 » Fri Sep 23, 2022 8:42 pm

I loved it ^^
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Re: Ates - A Vore Card Game

Postby FluffyLizardFunTime » Sat Sep 24, 2022 2:51 am

eleventh wrote:I've been watching this for a while. This is probably somewhat odd feedback, but I like the card designs.
As someone without the inclination to play with others, I liked the bits of bot chat (as well there being bots to play against at all.)


Thank you so much! Really glad to know you liked them; I ordered a few sets from the link on the first page for friends and family, and they're just so cute in person. I'm almost scared to play with them lol >///<

And yeah, as someone who massively prefers a single-player experience, I said we should make bots a priority. Is so fun to flirt with if you can find yourself a partner though~<3
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Re: Ates - A Vore Card Game

Postby bloodle8 » Sat Sep 24, 2022 5:41 am

Absolutely love the game! Been using it as a supplement to some of my roleplays, it's been a ton of fun, and my partners have been enjoying it, too~
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Re: Ates - A Vore Card Game

Postby FluffyLizardFunTime » Sat Sep 24, 2022 5:54 am

bloodle8 wrote:Absolutely love the game! Been using it as a supplement to some of my roleplays, it's been a ton of fun, and my partners have been enjoying it, too~



That's actually so exciting!! I'm really glad you're having fun with it~

are you finding that the pred has a huge advantage? cannot for the life of me tell whether it's easier for me, or whether my prey just really, really wants to get digested >///<
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Re: Ates - A Vore Card Game

Postby Xidas » Sun Sep 25, 2022 7:56 am

Been mucking around vs the AI in both roles, and I can say there's definitely a pro-pred bias in terms of winrate, though conversely the prey has more interesting strategy. I've found the key to winning as prey is to recycle very aggressively while you still have a big hand, to try to force 2 or 3 hearts onto a single space. Playing defensively just mills the deck and leaves you with the same weak cards.

I'm curious how the AI works. I've noticed Francesca doesn't really understand how to use the recycle option, and will sometimes just play out a hand of 4-5 cards when there's no hearts on the table and she has none in her hand either.

Obviously there's a lot of randomness involved in a game like this (one player can get several trumps in the opening hand and all but guarantee victory), but there is a particularly egregious case where if there's no hearts on the table, the pred is at a huge advantage, because the prey is forced to lose cards with no priority targets. Recycling doesn't help either, because you'd lose any trumps or high face cards in the process, draw one less card, and then have to throw away another card to open a slot for any hearts you had put in the pred's deck. I think this would be a bit more balanced if recycling was draw neutral when there were no hearts in any of the walls, instead of costing a card (that way forcing hearts into play wouldn't be quite as punishing).

That being said, the game works really well. The concealment of information matters, and it's possible to bluff, which is cool. I imagine playing against a human opponent would be pretty interesting.
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Re: Ates - A Vore Card Game

Postby bloodle8 » Mon Sep 26, 2022 12:30 am

FluffyLizardFunTime wrote:That's actually so exciting!! I'm really glad you're having fun with it~

are you finding that the pred has a huge advantage? cannot for the life of me tell whether it's easier for me, or whether my prey just really, really wants to get digested >///<


I wouldn't say huge, nope! An advantage for sure, but I've managed to win a few games! And have some really close matches, too!
Guess I'm just a tougher piece of meat than most~ >u>
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Re: Ates - A Vore Card Game

Postby FluffyLizardFunTime » Mon Sep 26, 2022 12:00 pm

Xidas wrote:Been mucking around vs the AI in both roles, and I can say there's definitely a pro-pred bias in terms of winrate, though conversely the prey has more interesting strategy. I've found the key to winning as prey is to recycle very aggressively while you still have a big hand, to try to force 2 or 3 hearts onto a single space. Playing defensively just mills the deck and leaves you with the same weak cards.

I'm curious how the AI works. I've noticed Francesca doesn't really understand how to use the recycle option, and will sometimes just play out a hand of 4-5 cards when there's no hearts on the table and she has none in her hand either.

Obviously there's a lot of randomness involved in a game like this (one player can get several trumps in the opening hand and all but guarantee victory), but there is a particularly egregious case where if there's no hearts on the table, the pred is at a huge advantage, because the prey is forced to lose cards with no priority targets. Recycling doesn't help either, because you'd lose any trumps or high face cards in the process, draw one less card, and then have to throw away another card to open a slot for any hearts you had put in the pred's deck. I think this would be a bit more balanced if recycling was draw neutral when there were no hearts in any of the walls, instead of costing a card (that way forcing hearts into play wouldn't be quite as punishing).

That being said, the game works really well. The concealment of information matters, and it's possible to bluff, which is cool. I imagine playing against a human opponent would be pretty interesting.



Passive prey is dead prey lol, which in all fairness is how it should be >///<

The AI was designed for the original game's design, which I completely changed over the course of several afternoons trying to balance it. Balancing has been a bitch and a half to put it lightly, but the current version had a more stable winrate for both myself and my coder. Even the slightest changes ended up massively skewing games, and obviously its difficult to tell what's luck, what's skill and what's poor design choices. It was ages before I realised that having 8's as trumps too was hampering the game massively


I'm still sort of playing with ideas. One we've had is the freecycle rule, where recycling is free for the prey whenever they're recycling hearts. That really restricted the predator because they had no way to mill a poor hand, whereas prey did. I really need to get a lot more feedback like this so I can tinker - want to maybe track winrates if that's possible to see just how bad the problems are >///<

but thank you so much for your comments, I really appreciate it <3 given me things to think about
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Re: Ates - A Vore Card Game

Postby FluffyLizardFunTime » Mon Sep 26, 2022 12:08 pm

bloodle8 wrote:
FluffyLizardFunTime wrote:That's actually so exciting!! I'm really glad you're having fun with it~

are you finding that the pred has a huge advantage? cannot for the life of me tell whether it's easier for me, or whether my prey just really, really wants to get digested >///<


I wouldn't say huge, nope! An advantage for sure, but I've managed to win a few games! And have some really close matches, too!
Guess I'm just a tougher piece of meat than most~ >u>



Okay that puts my mind at ease a little bit ^///^ I did get beaten over the weekend which felt gross, but I'm so so happy both sides have a (relative) fighting chance~
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Re: Ates - A Vore Card Game

Postby Sehnsucht » Tue Sep 27, 2022 7:22 am

Xidas wrote:I'm curious how the AI works. I've noticed Francesca doesn't really understand how to use the recycle option, and will sometimes just play out a hand of 4-5 cards when there's no hearts on the table and she has none in her hand either.


They are bundles of heuristics, hand-written from experience playing. But that will sometimes leave blind-spots like what you're seeing. Thank you, I'll see if I can't teach Fran to be a little more proactive when the pred's belly isn't giving her any quarter.

Xidas wrote:...case where if there's no hearts on the table, the pred is at a huge advantage, because the prey is forced to lose cards with no priority targets. Recycling doesn't help either


Your experience overall gels well with what I've observed. I'm an aggressive recycler, too. Feels thematically appropriate as well as tactically: who wouldn't struggle with everything they have? :D

Xidas wrote:That being said, the game works really well. The concealment of information matters, and it's possible to bluff, which is cool. I imagine playing against a human opponent would be pretty interesting.


Thank you so much for your feedback, it's clear you thought deeply about the mechanics and I'm grateful you took the time to write. Playing against a player certainly is a blast. My favourite thing that happened all last month was basically bluffing my pred right down to the last card while she gloated. My gambit wasn't a sure thing, and there was a small chance the two rounds I "wasted" would have put me in a better position so I wasn't just being smug prey, but wow. She got so cross she told me she'd eat my eyes. If that's not a thrilling game, I don't know what is.
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Re: Ates - A Vore Card Game

Postby reptilemk5 » Tue Sep 27, 2022 7:36 am

being willing prey I love losing to her ^^' you both did an absolutely amazing job making the game and her AI, I might be addicted to it at the moment ^^'
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