Huh, Julia's insistent disregard for how badly she was treated really is jarring. It sort of makes sense that Catgirls would be treated as nothing more than property if even the catgirls themselves see it perfectly acceptable to hurt them.
"Sorry I killed an old friend of yours"
"No, no, don't apologize!"
I can't imagine any human responding like this, the most that would come is conflicted silence. This seems more intent on cutting off drama before it starts and downplaying the events, normalizing abuse as much as possible. And, as a direct result, encouraging at least these two people to be as violent and cruel as they wish. After all there isn't even a social consequence.
You're probably right about how Michelle should have responded and in all likelihood I could have executed this better. I believe I have a habit of ignoring normal human behavior (I imagine this is the cutting of drama and downplaying of events you mentioned) if it helps lead to the super fluffy happy end I want. In this case I wanted to create a scenario that I could use as a jumping off point for Julia to realize just how romantic her feelings for Michelle are. So, old acquaintance of Michelle's shows up, goes a bit stab crazy, Julia gets her vore scene, Michelle wakes up in a hospital, Julia realizes just how much it sucks to have almost lost Michelle, and status quo restored for the next segment to begin. Also make Claire less mean to Michelle, that was on my list. It actually used to be even worse because in the original draft it was Julia that ate Kelly in the first chapter and for some reason Michelle still falls in love with her and I think we can both be glad I realized just how garbage that was.
In regards to the rest of your comment, assuming I understood it all correctly, you're absolutely right and I sort of intended this universe to be that way. In universe, catpeople were not originally created to be food. But this is a vore story so I needed vore in it, which means that the regular humans on this world had to be terrible enough people to dehumanize an entirely "new" race of sentient beings so that hungry vores could have something to eat. Basically, no social consequences for eating catpeople (unless they're wearing a collar, in theory). This led to catpeople being treated as property from their very conception and the idea is that they have, in fact, come to believe it as well, or at least that they believe an outcome of slavery or digestion is inevitable for them.
And then I wrapped it all up by telling myself that since it was a self defense devouring Michelle would be more okay with it than if Julia had just plucked her off the street for a midday snack. As you said she was probably far too okay with it, but that's what I went with.
This universe is definitely not perfect. It suffers from a number of unfortunate cliches present in most casual vore universes and I basically created it to serve my desires for stories about dominance, control, slavery, and cat ears. Probably doesn't help that I would rather be the slave than the master in these kinds of scenarios so I think I'm a bit biased towards normalizing the abuse, as it were.
I hope that pleads my case well enough without sounding like I'm ranting. Also hope I don't sound like an asshole. That being said, thank you for leaving such a thought provoking comment. In the future I'll try to be better about making my characters behave like... well, like people rather than stupid fluff machines. Thanks again!
I have this very annoying habit of being silent on any works that I enjoy wholeheartedly, simply pressing a favorite or a like button and moving on. Yet pressing to put down any opinions or thoughts on any matter that I feel was terrible within an otherwise good work. If the entire thing was terrible I ignore it, if the entire thing was wonderful then there's just nothing to say. "Good job" and all of it's variants feel too hollow to be worth bothering with.
In this case the matter of bizarre inhuman emotions or villainous attributes on what are supposed to be our protagonists wasn't enough of an annoyance on it's own, simply a result of clumsy writing that tries to push toward a specific point rather than flowing naturally in whatever direction the characters gravitate towards. What got to me was the superficial resemblance to hundreds of other, similar stories with a near identical sentiment, yet the circumstances in play made it downright offensive.
Stories in which an magical giant eats an entire city population of well over 1000 people, but feels bad about it. So he goes home to his human wife and tries to apologize for falling into his urges, only for her to scold the monster and say he shouldn't ever feel guilty for doing something natural. Under the logic of "Giant isn't human, it's wrong to attribute human morals to him" all while working to undercut it's own interesting character piece.
Without guilt over a horrible action, the perpetrator becomes remorseless. And the victim and/or said victims associates actively trying to remove all guilt touches very close to that particular pet peeve of mine.
...
Hrm, I'd say you explained yourself well, and my only 'tips' would be that if you want the happy, fluffy ending where everything is nice, fun, and romantic then you should either split apart chapters in which there are traumatic events into multiple chapters. Say one in which the catgirl is hospitalized, then a /different/ chapter in which they get closer together and realize they are in love. Time to settle, distance between the events, have actual back and forth conversations where the two enjoy each other's company or convince one another in some argument. The faster you make the pace the less you have to work with.
OR: The complete opposite, just undercut the drama in a different way, have less death be involved. If the catgirl who attacked had been allowed to live, met with Michell again, talked, got to be a character, got to be a lifeline into Michell's past and meet with Juilia and become friends ... even if they then go their separate ways and dead catgirl just becomes a recurring background character to be brought up as needed, this could have been entirely soft and fluffy. Instead you had the horrific tragedy and the painful guilt associated with it, and were trying to say the tragedy wasn't bad and the guilt wasn't warranted.
Which ... yeah "I'll make your death quick and painless" is something an evil person offers as it's the only mercy they are capable of. Not something a decent person would say.
Awkwardly, I can only promise to jot down a response when I find something that annoys me to the point of motivation >_>;
Love the story and can't wait to see more, and just as you seem afraid of sounding like an asshole, my biggest fear her is making it feel like I'm bashing your writing as a whole.
I like to think I'm the kind of person that can take constructive criticism, and given your thorough explanation (and you even offered helpful advice, goodness gracious!) this can most definitely be filed under "constructive." I honestly hadn't even thought of Julia sparing Cheryl, but it just makes so much sense. I think that particular issue is because in the original rule set for this universe being eaten was literally the end. There was no way out. Once you were in the stomach your only option was to be digested. At some point I changed that, but since I wrote this while using the first draft as a guideline (probably something I shouldn't do, eh?) that sentiment came through. Now I'm getting so many ideas I could have used and I feel like such a ponce!
So, yeah, thanks for taking the time to help me out. I really do appreciate it. Hopefully I can take your advice to heart and maybe think more creatively about how I need to move my stories forward.
This universe of yours doesn't seem very stable. What's keeping the cat-people from rising up and destroying the entire system that has literally turned its back on them? I'd sympathize with the instigators of a "war for the planet of the felines" scenario.
Ultimately, I find that creating a stable vore universe is effectively impossible. I've done what little I can with Pet's Life but there are flaws, I know. In regards to your question, the main idea is that the entire government is against them and would not hesitate to put down a rebellion with extreme prejudice. There's also the issue that vore capable humans possess some level of superhuman ability. What do you get when you cross an uprising of catpeople with a well armed military battalion composed of a large number of vore capable individuals? My answer is a massacre, but another acceptable answer is a feast.
But yeah, catpeople are definitely the side of the conflict that is supposed to get your sympathy. I've made attempts in recent works to show that there are humans and catpeople alike trying to get catpeople equal treatment, but it'll likely never happen because unfortunately for all of them the show must go on and I need victims.
Posted by Graywolf18 6 years ago Report
I love happy endings. <3 well... mostly happy endings. :)
Posted by SwordkingX5 6 years ago Report
Glad to see Claris Mum likes Michelle now and isn't planning on eating her.
Posted by SwordkingX5 6 years ago Report
Though question.
Will we ever see that girl from Clairs school again?
Posted by Apex 6 years ago Report
If you're referring to Ashley she's scheduled to make a return and she'll be bitchy as ever, I imagine.
Posted by SwordkingX5 6 years ago Report
Yes that's who I was referring to.
Posted by Arbon 6 years ago Report
Huh, Julia's insistent disregard for how badly she was treated really is jarring. It sort of makes sense that Catgirls would be treated as nothing more than property if even the catgirls themselves see it perfectly acceptable to hurt them.
"Sorry I killed an old friend of yours"
"No, no, don't apologize!"
I can't imagine any human responding like this, the most that would come is conflicted silence. This seems more intent on cutting off drama before it starts and downplaying the events, normalizing abuse as much as possible. And, as a direct result, encouraging at least these two people to be as violent and cruel as they wish. After all there isn't even a social consequence.
Posted by Apex 6 years ago Report
You're probably right about how Michelle should have responded and in all likelihood I could have executed this better. I believe I have a habit of ignoring normal human behavior (I imagine this is the cutting of drama and downplaying of events you mentioned) if it helps lead to the super fluffy happy end I want. In this case I wanted to create a scenario that I could use as a jumping off point for Julia to realize just how romantic her feelings for Michelle are. So, old acquaintance of Michelle's shows up, goes a bit stab crazy, Julia gets her vore scene, Michelle wakes up in a hospital, Julia realizes just how much it sucks to have almost lost Michelle, and status quo restored for the next segment to begin. Also make Claire less mean to Michelle, that was on my list. It actually used to be even worse because in the original draft it was Julia that ate Kelly in the first chapter and for some reason Michelle still falls in love with her and I think we can both be glad I realized just how garbage that was.
In regards to the rest of your comment, assuming I understood it all correctly, you're absolutely right and I sort of intended this universe to be that way. In universe, catpeople were not originally created to be food. But this is a vore story so I needed vore in it, which means that the regular humans on this world had to be terrible enough people to dehumanize an entirely "new" race of sentient beings so that hungry vores could have something to eat. Basically, no social consequences for eating catpeople (unless they're wearing a collar, in theory). This led to catpeople being treated as property from their very conception and the idea is that they have, in fact, come to believe it as well, or at least that they believe an outcome of slavery or digestion is inevitable for them.
And then I wrapped it all up by telling myself that since it was a self defense devouring Michelle would be more okay with it than if Julia had just plucked her off the street for a midday snack. As you said she was probably far too okay with it, but that's what I went with.
This universe is definitely not perfect. It suffers from a number of unfortunate cliches present in most casual vore universes and I basically created it to serve my desires for stories about dominance, control, slavery, and cat ears. Probably doesn't help that I would rather be the slave than the master in these kinds of scenarios so I think I'm a bit biased towards normalizing the abuse, as it were.
I hope that pleads my case well enough without sounding like I'm ranting. Also hope I don't sound like an asshole. That being said, thank you for leaving such a thought provoking comment. In the future I'll try to be better about making my characters behave like... well, like people rather than stupid fluff machines. Thanks again!
Posted by Arbon 6 years ago Report
I have this very annoying habit of being silent on any works that I enjoy wholeheartedly, simply pressing a favorite or a like button and moving on. Yet pressing to put down any opinions or thoughts on any matter that I feel was terrible within an otherwise good work. If the entire thing was terrible I ignore it, if the entire thing was wonderful then there's just nothing to say. "Good job" and all of it's variants feel too hollow to be worth bothering with.
In this case the matter of bizarre inhuman emotions or villainous attributes on what are supposed to be our protagonists wasn't enough of an annoyance on it's own, simply a result of clumsy writing that tries to push toward a specific point rather than flowing naturally in whatever direction the characters gravitate towards. What got to me was the superficial resemblance to hundreds of other, similar stories with a near identical sentiment, yet the circumstances in play made it downright offensive.
Stories in which an magical giant eats an entire city population of well over 1000 people, but feels bad about it. So he goes home to his human wife and tries to apologize for falling into his urges, only for her to scold the monster and say he shouldn't ever feel guilty for doing something natural. Under the logic of "Giant isn't human, it's wrong to attribute human morals to him" all while working to undercut it's own interesting character piece.
Without guilt over a horrible action, the perpetrator becomes remorseless. And the victim and/or said victims associates actively trying to remove all guilt touches very close to that particular pet peeve of mine.
...
Hrm, I'd say you explained yourself well, and my only 'tips' would be that if you want the happy, fluffy ending where everything is nice, fun, and romantic then you should either split apart chapters in which there are traumatic events into multiple chapters. Say one in which the catgirl is hospitalized, then a /different/ chapter in which they get closer together and realize they are in love. Time to settle, distance between the events, have actual back and forth conversations where the two enjoy each other's company or convince one another in some argument. The faster you make the pace the less you have to work with.
OR: The complete opposite, just undercut the drama in a different way, have less death be involved. If the catgirl who attacked had been allowed to live, met with Michell again, talked, got to be a character, got to be a lifeline into Michell's past and meet with Juilia and become friends ... even if they then go their separate ways and dead catgirl just becomes a recurring background character to be brought up as needed, this could have been entirely soft and fluffy. Instead you had the horrific tragedy and the painful guilt associated with it, and were trying to say the tragedy wasn't bad and the guilt wasn't warranted.
Which ... yeah "I'll make your death quick and painless" is something an evil person offers as it's the only mercy they are capable of. Not something a decent person would say.
Awkwardly, I can only promise to jot down a response when I find something that annoys me to the point of motivation >_>;
Love the story and can't wait to see more, and just as you seem afraid of sounding like an asshole, my biggest fear her is making it feel like I'm bashing your writing as a whole.
Posted by Apex 6 years ago Report
I like to think I'm the kind of person that can take constructive criticism, and given your thorough explanation (and you even offered helpful advice, goodness gracious!) this can most definitely be filed under "constructive." I honestly hadn't even thought of Julia sparing Cheryl, but it just makes so much sense. I think that particular issue is because in the original rule set for this universe being eaten was literally the end. There was no way out. Once you were in the stomach your only option was to be digested. At some point I changed that, but since I wrote this while using the first draft as a guideline (probably something I shouldn't do, eh?) that sentiment came through. Now I'm getting so many ideas I could have used and I feel like such a ponce!
So, yeah, thanks for taking the time to help me out. I really do appreciate it. Hopefully I can take your advice to heart and maybe think more creatively about how I need to move my stories forward.
Posted by UruTrahald 6 years ago Report
This universe of yours doesn't seem very stable. What's keeping the cat-people from rising up and destroying the entire system that has literally turned its back on them? I'd sympathize with the instigators of a "war for the planet of the felines" scenario.
Posted by Apex 6 years ago Report
Ultimately, I find that creating a stable vore universe is effectively impossible. I've done what little I can with Pet's Life but there are flaws, I know. In regards to your question, the main idea is that the entire government is against them and would not hesitate to put down a rebellion with extreme prejudice. There's also the issue that vore capable humans possess some level of superhuman ability. What do you get when you cross an uprising of catpeople with a well armed military battalion composed of a large number of vore capable individuals? My answer is a massacre, but another acceptable answer is a feast.
But yeah, catpeople are definitely the side of the conflict that is supposed to get your sympathy. I've made attempts in recent works to show that there are humans and catpeople alike trying to get catpeople equal treatment, but it'll likely never happen because unfortunately for all of them the show must go on and I need victims.