Posted by ShinjiIkari 3 years ago Report

This is turning into a bioware game! :3

Posted by BizzareBlue 3 years ago Report

I've never actually played any of the bioware games so I'm not totally sure what that means.

Posted by Kasra 3 years ago Report

Happiness system? That's interesting! I wonder how it impacts things...guess I'll just have to find out.

Posted by BizzareBlue 3 years ago Report

Well, right now it mostly affects how quickly willpower drains or replenishes but I am planning to have it affect more of the choices as the game goes on.

Posted by Kasra 3 years ago Report

That's fair, and makes a good amount of sense. Being unhappy can be a real drain on your willpower, can confirm.

Posted by MirceaKitsune 3 years ago Report

Can't wait to see more of this gorgeous little game over time! The mechanics are some of the best I've seen for a vore game, definitely a great basis to work with.

Posted by BizzareBlue 3 years ago Report

Thanks. I’ve been having a lot of fun building it, and especially in finding ways to get rpgmaker to do things that it wasn’t really designed to be capable of.

Posted by dddddd2 3 years ago Report

Nice!
Btw, the magic wall effect in the graveyard somehow got stuck permanently even after I went to other maps. Is there any way to get rid of it?
https://i.imgur.com/mq5cSzv.png

Posted by BizzareBlue 3 years ago Report

Ah! I was sure I'd fixed that this time. I'll have to go back and try to find out why that's still happening. As for a quick fix, one thing that might work is to enter the rabbit temple and then leave again (as that is also supposed to remove any overlayed images), but if leaving the graveyard didn't do so, then I'm not sure if that will work either. Sorry about that. I'll try again and see if I can find out what is causing that to happen.

Posted by Grapefruitvenison 3 years ago Report

Nice work! I'm not sure if this is intentional, but I never got the opportunity to trade a collared Martin to Felgate.

Posted by Grapefruitvenison 3 years ago Report

Also, the Seal girl acts like I've made a trade before I've done it (after I took the lizard)

Posted by BizzareBlue 3 years ago Report

Ooops, nope, that wasn't intentional, but both that and the seal should be fixed now.

Posted by Grapefruitvenison 3 years ago Report

Awesome. Have you considered making a scene list? That would make it easier to test if things are working as intended, as sometimes it's hard to tell if something is working as intended or if it's broken. For example, with Martin, there is a scene where you digest him if you never recruit him, but if later down the track you don't forgive him, there is no scene (once you go to a bed). I assume this is working as intended for the moment, but there is no way to tell if this is intentional or a bug.
I understand if that would be a pain in the ass though, so don't stress, you are doing a great job anyway!

Posted by BizzareBlue 3 years ago Report

I had a go at starting something like that, but it just turned into a mess. There's too many branches that trigger their own scene and too many cases where I added stuff on the fly that wasn't originally planned to be included (and then often forgot exactly what I had done). It would also contain some pretty major spoilers for anyone who hadn't played far enough.

The lack of dialogue when eating Martin is a bug, however, and I'll try to get that fixed for the next update. Thanks for catching that and for the encouragement.

Posted by Grapefruitvenison 3 years ago Report

Gotcha, that's fair enough. I'm thinking next update I'll make a list of bugs I think I see and post them all at once, so I'm not bombarding you with annoying posts lol. Don't stress though, it's just a couple of typo's, a pathing issue with the seal, and missing digestion scenes (like with the bat in the shack. If they aren't bugs just ignore them).

Let me know if you have a preferred method of making a bug report, so I'm not clogging up your comments

Posted by BizzareBlue 3 years ago Report

You’re welcome to send the bug reports however suits you. If it’s not something I can fix quickly I copy them from the comments to a file so I have a record of what I have fixed and what still isn't working, so you can post bug reports any way you like. Admittedly, I tend to see comments here a little faster than messages on the patreon page or forum post though.

Posted by Tunknownusert 3 years ago Report

getting an error when I click on the link

Posted by Tunknownusert 3 years ago Report

Seems to be working now

Posted by BizzareBlue 3 years ago Report

Oh, weird. I’m glad it’s fixed now and not sure what could have been making it go wrong. Maybe a problem with dropbox or something as several other people also posted that it stopped working around that time.

Posted by Astronommy 3 years ago Report

Thank you for all the time and effort you're investing into this project! It started strong, it's been growing more rapidly than I could have imagined, without sacrificing depth or innovation to maintain that pace, it's an inspiring feat! May it develop into something truly memorable in the vore community, and bring you the fame and compensation this kind of dedication deserves!

What I've found especially admirable in the game so far, besides the unmistakable writing style hallmarks that makes your stories stand out so much (the meticulous deductive reasoning in dialogue, the depth of worldbuilding, and the believably conveyed intense emotions):

- the maddeningly expansive branching paths for keeping or killing off different playable characters - the full range of possibilities is accounted for, from a lone Pacha run to a full cast crowding the game world's various inns;

- the sheer amount of situational character interactions considering the above point, especially the bit with Sichi and Martin's reacting to being around, and potentially becoming predators, Sichi and Felgate's hushing out their opposing views on necromancy, Martin and Vir's added annotations while visiting their hometowns, Martin's breakdown, the druid staff scene, and supporting characters trying to salvage Pacha's diplomatic blunders in the Hive area (and Vir's fortunetelling session, of course!);

- the clever integration of the the vore tropes with game mechanics, both in and out of combat, the wealth of post-devoured exchanges before nap time, and really extensive art for the relevant parts of the game, it's such uncompromisingly brave design to make the vore disposal mechanics apply even to some of the vendors and key NPC's, as well as the aforementioned playable character elimination options;

- the palpable grief that the Rabbit Village portion of the game relates, especially if Martin is around, it's just excellent setup and writing throughout, and on a less somber note, it is such a gem to find Vir and Pacha's compare their respective tribes' leadership models, especially since the mutual dependencies and suspicions of all the game areas is fleshed out so well in the game.

I don't often get to play Final Fantasy VI-like games, so I don't have a frame of reference for what works or not, but my single biggest issue with the game lies in the same area as my praise - in the consistency of the world. Naturally, there have to be some contrivances to make a vore game work, but give the starting point of the game, and the continued motivation for Pacha's party - saving the affected prey villages so that the carnivore tribes wouldn't lose their food source on top of fearing the story's antagonist's future attacks - lose some of its urgency when there is an inexhaustible supply of weakling mice with a goblin syndrome scurrying around just outside the stoats' village. I can see the rationale for their inclusion from both the gaming and vore appeal standpoints, but maybe their encounters can be toned down a little? I mean, granted, Vir and the entire otter village are portrayed as pretty predatory despite being capable of sustaining themselves on (presumably, non-sentient) fish, so in keeping with that comically hedonistic logic the stoats may literally treat the disappearance of the rabbit caravan as a dreadful food crisis simply because they prefer eating rabbits to eating mice.

I love the game as it is, of course, and I'm Patreoning it no matter what, but if you decide to do tweak the starting zones at some point, my proposed solutions to that issue would be to either write in some explanation for why Pacha's is uniquely good at catching mice (and maybe add a mechanic for capturing said mice and relocating them in the stoats' tavern pantry for gold/reputation/Sichi's resentment), make a mention of how an organized hunt would cause the mice to go into hiding before the stores are filled for the winter, or make the mouse enemy encounters end with the mice running away on defeat, dropping their valuables, and fleeing when their Will gets too low, meaning that only an advanced party with a couple of Mesmerize users would stand a chance at catching a mouse. I apologize for making my gripe so long, and I recognize the difficulty of coming up with an enemy that would be both a plausible denizen of the area, inedible *and* have the right graphics available for it in the library.

One last minor point is, while I haven't yet tried the Story Mode that may have addressed it, it would be nice to give Pacha at least some starting capital to reflect that she is trusted enough to both be given the sole prey in the village as a treat, and be sent on a quest of existential significance for the village. Depending on the luck of the drops, only takes a few mouse encounters to raise the few hundred gold necessary to make use of the starting shop, so maybe that could be streamlined a little for narrative consistency's sake.

Thank you for giving us this wonderful game, and best of luck developing it further!

Posted by BizzareBlue 3 years ago Report

Sorry for how long it took me to see this. I’ve had some computer problems this last week that have made logging into Eka’s tricky.

I’m really glad you are enjoying the game so far. It’s been a lot of fun to built so far and I’m definitely looking forward to getting deeper into the plot. Your point about the mice is a good one though and I was kind of torn when adding them as for exactly that reason. Still, I don’t want to take the ability to eat them out, or even make them less frequent. They serve a lot of different purposes, both as a tutorial and gentle introduction to the mechanics, as a way to get easy vore scenes if the latter areas are frustrating, and most importantly, as a way to grind for gold and xp for anyone struggling with the latter areas.

One thing I had considered to at least patch over the discrepancy this causes, was to mention that the mice hibernate (or at least stop venturing out from their villages) during the winter, so won’t be a sustainable food source for long. I probably should have looked for a place to work that explanation in earlier, but the early game needs a lot of polishing as so far I’ve been focusing a little too much on getting further through the story and too little on getting the areas already added working nicely. I’m going to try to fix that over the next couple of updates.

You make a good point that having the player start with some money would be a good idea. I hadn’t considered that, but will definitely try to add it for the next update.

Really glad you are enjoying it so far, and hope you continue to do so.

Posted by Astronommy 3 years ago Report

You are very courteous, and don't worry about getting back to my messages, you are the artist and your convenience comes before all! Sorry to hear about your tech issues, may they get resolved quickly and trouble you no more!

The mice in the starting areas are very useful for a variety of reasons, I wouldn't argue against keeping that unchanged. I would offer an another possible justification for mice being undependable, however: if the various tribes vary in size and stature along lines of their animal prototypes similarly to the fantasy genre convention, that could mean that, if the stoats are the baseline size (humans/elves), the mice would be smallfolk (goblins/halflings), and rabbits would be larger humanoids (orcs/minotaurs). If that is the case, a dozen rabbits would be easier for for the stoats to control, house and tend to than a few dozen mice amounting to the same nutritional value.

Looking back at what I've just written, I feel horrified at callousness of that assessment, even with all my years of experience in this community; creating this kind of fiction calls for truly astounding capability for ethical compartmentalization or flexibility.

A couple more suggestions, if you would be good with hearing them out. They are fairly extensive and invasive regarding the existing material, so I don't count on them getting implemented, just working out the boundaries of what's possible - I hope you'll forgive the imposition on your time.

One, the limitations on prey consumption. I acknowledge that both the swallowing-as-a-free-action and the limitless, weightless stomach capacity represent significant appeal to some players, but to me it feels very impersonal and mechanical to have no limits in this regard. This issue is adjacent to the variable digestion speed: characters can be fully processed in five rounds of combat, or go into mute limbo, or suddenly deliver a parting line prior to using the bedroom after minutes of play. Again, this is too invasive for being a likely change, but they ideal system in my view would be a limit of 3-4 prey slots for Pacha the huntress extraordinaire, 2 for other predator team mates and 1 for prey ones, with each prey consumed lowering the character's speed a little bit. That would play havoc with all the preset devouring scenes, as well as battlefield devourings, and strike a blow to the Hive casualty count part. A step further would be to allot a special menu bookmark, a sort of prey inventory listing all devoured character, with the option to tease, comfort, release or quicken digestion for either of them, but that's breathtaking impertinence on my part to even hypothesize a change of that scale.

Two, again fairly extensive and writing-heavy, would be the flavoring of the Mesmerize-type abilities: to have the character performing one of those utter one of a few randomized lines aimed to convey the influence on the target, with the latter quipping in response. Both the taunt and the response could draw from different pools of phrases depending on how low the target's willpower is, and depending on the ability's success. A lot of hard work, but I feel it would allow a better characterization to each of the prospective hypnotists, and spice up the often dull process of mesmerizing enemies into submission when only Pacha has the ability in the party.

Three, and this is both a tactless imposition as well as a brazing prompting for the game to move into a different erotic subgenre a little, is the inclusion of weight gain mechanics. This far, the game's only had Martin getting (supposedly, unfairly) tormented on this front, but with the amount of calories passing into the player characters' jaws, it may be expected to have a hidden variable for each character that would go up each time they nap having eaten someone, and go down if they go to bed hungry, and add or alter the remarks on the character's appearance. It could be a simple binary "lean/plump", or a range of values, which could also affect the combat attributes (more health/less speed), potentially getting the character stuck in the full-bellied sprite mode even when empty until they lose their extra weight. Feeling really anxious about even bringing this up, but going by some of your stories, it is a subtly mentioned, but present feature in your writing, so perhaps you wouldn't be averse to such an inclusion.

On a related note, it seems to be possible to starve every predator character throughout the game, excepting the plot-necessary predation with no consequence, so perhaps the level of a character's hunger might be tracked, changing the tone of pertinent conversations if allowed to climb high, or even forcing a consumption in otherwise discretionary optional situations. Apologies if that has been accounted for, and I missed it!

Apologies for that piling heap of careless advice! Given that either of those suggestions would increase the difficulty of advancing the story by an order of magnitude, I would not be upset in the least if none of that is given notice, much less a be implemented - it's just a scattering of loose ideas of you to consider if you ever need an extra source of inspiration.

One more thing I wanted to mention is the amazingly circumspect writing for the murder mystery diary in the Trader Town, and the admirably robust anatomy of that quest in general! The hat-making cat and mouse couple in that same area are also a delight to interact with, and a personal favorite due, being a splendid functional willing prey representation! I was overjoyed when it turned out the hat maker could be allowed to linger on with avoiding certain dialogue options.

The new ball game AI is definitely more capable, kudos for taking the time to straighten out the scripts on that, it couldn't be easy!

Once again, thank you for your efforts and creativity! And thank you for responding!

Posted by BizzareBlue 3 years ago Report

Thank you. I’m really glad you are enjoying it so much and I promise the feedback is not at all unwelcome. Ideas and suggestions for the game are always welcome, and pointing out the parts that just don’t work is particularly useful as it’s easy to get too deep into the project and need a fresh set of eyes to point out which parts aren’t up to standard.

The mice being harder to keep control of and having a higher work to calories ratio that the rabbits is definitely a neat touch and one I will have to look for a place to add something to that effect. It does add a very nice little evil touch to things.

I can definitely see the issues with the way digestion works and putting in a special inventory where a limited number of prey can be stored was something I had planned when I first started the game, but quickly found that rpgmaker isn’t really flexible enough to make adding that feasible. For some things, it makes adding stuff to the game extremely easy, but for others it is a nightmare, and anything that involves editing the menus tends to fall into the latter category. Even simple stuff like getting it to display the characters’ willpower alongside health and mana was a pain. Now that I have a slightly better idea of how it handles its windows I might attempt something like that if I were to start work on a new game but, yeah, the number of things it would likely break in the current one means that probably isn’t something I’m going to add to Pacha’s Quest.

Having each enemy respond to mesmerism in a different way is an interesting idea. I will probably need to think about how that will work a little more, but it could definitely be interesting and add a lot to the game.

I’m also definitely up for adding some weight gain elements to the game, but I’m not really sure how that would work. There aren’t many places where someone comments on Pacha’s weight, and even fewer for characters like Felgate. Having them stay in full mode when they cross the line into being fat is definitely a nice idea, although it then might make it difficult to tell which of the characters have eaten someone that day. Something on the lines of less speed, more health, as the value increases also has potential, but could be complex to add and confusing if it wasn’t clear what was causing the stat changes. I really like the idea though, so probably will add a weight value that changes every time the characters sleep to the next update, and then work out the details of how that could affect the gameplay from there.

A hunger value could also be interesting… although it would probably be pretty similar to the weight gain value, so I might just combine the two and use that as a measure of how much each character has eaten recently. There are definitely a good few places where that could be interesting.

I’m also glad you liked the trader town mini-quests. I’m planning to add a few things like that to most of the settlements Pacha visits, and hopefully soon the holes in both the stoat and otter villages will actually lead to those instead of just a message about it being rude to enter uninvited.

Thanks again for the feedback. It’s helped a lot and hopefully at least a few of the new ideas for things to include will be ready for the next update.

Posted by Astronommy 3 years ago Report

Thank you for giving my suggestions so much attention and thought! I have to apologize for the audacity of proposing so many sweeping changes once again, especially since, as you've explained, the limitations of the game making engine complicate the process of implementing unorthodox features.

All of obstacles to implementing the weight gain and hunger attributes are considerable, but seeing as you are not averse to that feature conceptually, I could suggest making it a purely cosmetic touch, like a string of text in the character status box (although that would include tampering with the menus, something you mentioned as being nigh impossible to do), or a line of dialogue for idle characters responding to Pacha in taverns.

For the record, I don't see the protagonist herself having her weight commented on,
as her type is speedy, lithe and energetic, but the rest of the team (with the exception of the posh Felgate, although he does have that optional craving for rabbits) all have potential for interestig interaction in that area.

I'd intended to throw in a suggestion for variables tracking characters' attitudes towards predation and towards becoming devoured, but playing through the Burrower Temple again reminded me that your more narratively specific method of portraying predation morality in the game is a far more elegant way to accomplish the same. At the same time, I'm not sure if all the ways to casually dispose of Martin (via the stoats' village pantry, Felgate or the ocelot lady) are turned off after Pacha gives her promise to allow her companion some dignity on their quest. I realize that few people can boast a consistent worldview, but there are few distinct justification for predation in the game (and in general) -- that the prey are food and playthings unworthy of empathy, that both the predators and the prey creatures make up a balanced ecosystem and one's role oughtn't be defied for fear of upsetting the balance, or that the predators' need for sustenance is a tragic necessity, and the captured prey is owed respectful and careful treatment for as long as they are at the predator's mercy -- and Pacha sometimes flips through several of them when she needs to make a point (which is consistent with her willful mercurial personality), while at some of the key points (like the Temple confrontation) she professes commitment to one of those creeds with an air of finality. I understand the difficulty of balancing out the need to give the players agency in steering Pacha's choices with her personality, the demands of the situation at any given time, and gameplay mechanics, so I wouldn't suggest adding any kind of morality tracker for any other purpose than your own convenience of developing the game's story further.

A quick musing on Felgate: I've always found the portrayal of necromancers as limiting their ambition to raising an army of undead to be very tired, and the character is shown doing applying his skills in unusual ways like when he interrogated the burden beast's last memories, so in keeping with the mechanics of the setting, and his contentions with the priestess, it would be interesting to have the end goal of his search for knowledge be the creation of a way to fully bring a person back to life using their remains, with all the flesh regrown, mental faculties restored and soul tightly bound back to the body, effectively allowing for a reformation option in this setting. There would obviously be a heavy price in magical ability and reagents, and there would still linger the concerns for whether the revived person is really themselves, of course. I believe it would make for a good story arc for Felgate, especially if he mentions some dramatic event in the past that led him to pursue his current grim calling, and give him extra excuse to argue with Sichi.

Speaking of the latter, the Wind Claw and the high level magic staves work well for her, but could not her magical arsenal be expanded to include some more offensive spells that would still fall along the lines of pacifistic and restorative nature of Sichi's Goddess? If the theme is prevention of harm and healing, her spells could offer protection, removal of their will to fight, reflecting the damage back onto the attacker, and, given the character's attitude, harming or weakening the undead.

Thank you again for your work on this project, and for your willingness to engage with feedback! Every time I start a new game, I find another detail that had eluded me earlier, which is more than an individually-produced game could normally be expected to deliver. The addition of new small stories for settlements would be very appreciated, and scouring the game world for those new quests would be delightful!

Posted by BizzareBlue 3 years ago Report

Adding a line to the character’s status box in the menu is a neat idea and should be fairly simple (I hope… rpgmaker is a bit weird sometimes). It would definitely be a nice addition and would make the characters feel a little more real. I’ll get started on seeing if I can add that now.

As for the scene in the temple and Pacha’s promise to treat her companions better in future, that was one of the first bits of the story I came up with and a lot of the rest of the game was built around that. When I was making my initial notes, the idea was that if you made that promise, most options to use your companions as food would be permanently disabled, but as I built more stuff around that, I grew a little less keen on the idea. It’s supposed to be possible to play Pacha in a lot of different ways, after all, so if someone wants Pacha to make then break that promise it should be an option. I’m still working out exactly how that should work.

And yeah, Pacha’s justifications for her actions do kind of vary depending on how she feels, but that was somewhat deliberate. To an extent the real answer is simply that she eats people because she needs to, and finds ways to justify it afterwards. And sometimes she finds herself unable to commit to one that she had used before. Prey are just food and don’t deserve any sympathy is an easy enough stance to take if she is alone with Vir, but one that she wouldn’t feel as comfortable with when taking a gentler stance with Martin.

As for Felgate, if you gave him a hint that such a spell might be even remotely achievable he would likely drop everything in a heartbeat to pursue that, but at least at the moment he believes it to be well outside his current capacity. The possibility that someone might be able to make progress towards something like that though is part of the reason he wants to raise the general opinion of necromancy. Still, a couple of side quests to explore that further would definitely be a neat thing to add (and would help annoy Sichi).

I am planning to add some offensive powers for Sichi eventually, although she is currently one of the most useful party members so that’s not very high priority. I also haven’t found a good place to add a trainer who can teach light based magic yet, although I do have a plan for where to include one.

I’m really glad you keep finding new things. I have to admit there are a few pieces of dialogue that can only be triggered under very specific and unlikely conditions. And yeah, some more smallish subquests are definitely on the list to be added.

Posted by Astronommy 3 years ago Report

Thank you for humoring my ramblings! I especially appreciate the history of how the game's story was developed! It is a privilege to witness a project grow in real time like that!

I agree that removing a significant portion of the game's predatory content that early into the story would have been too drastic a measure. Player choices can be sacrificed to preserve the narrative consistency, I believe, but only if by that time the players have had a plenty of opportunity to make the choices constituting that original pattern that later events need to be consistent with.

On a related note, perhaps the Temple confrontation could be changed to remove some the harsher points of contention between Pacha and Martin. Your stories tend to take a very crisply realistic approach to predator-prey relationships, in that characters react to the prospect of getting eaten with the same terrified revulsion as real people would, and that can create amazing suspense and raise the stakes through the roof for any given plot, but this is potentially a long game, so that intensity might be impossible to sustain over a long distance.

What I propose (acknowledging my personal preference in this, and in no way urging to implement this proposition) is making the prey species' culture a little more lenient towards predators, so Martin -- understandably shaken at the time -- wouldn't presume to demand being made an exception to Pacha's predation as a condition to continuing cooperation, because having been brought up in a world where predation is commonplace, he wouldn't be able to conceptualize a predator ignoring their nature like that.

He could, as he does during one version of his rebellion, wish the predators be removed from the world altogether as a force that causes too much suffering for no other cause than self-perpetuation, and again, that would be a reasonable and plausible, but (deliberately) highlighting how unmanageable are the civilization of obligate killers. And, again, going by the real life logic, the prey people should be capable of eradicating the predators: the modest estimation for an average predator's consumption rate be something like one person a week, that would mean that a prey population would have to produce an annual population growth of almost fifty people per one predator to be sustainable at a fixed level, and much more than that to expand, necessitating a massive numeric advantage. In the game itself, due to various limitations, no bustling crowds can be shown, so there are two predator communities, each visibly around a dozen people strong, and supposedly relying heavily in their hunting on the rabbit village that also counts a dozen people total, but without a hint that rabbits are more populous in the area than is represented, that makes the rabbit village feel like a maddeningly dangerous place to live, and even with their mystical defenses, it's a miracle that community even found the courage to function and have any hope. Unless the expected caravan was carrying hundreds more rabbits, of course.

However, if the fact that this world works out internally is taken as an axiom, brushing aside the tiresome overthinking like what I've outlined above, that means that predators and prey are actually balanced out ecologically, and no founding deities of the world has seen it fit to erase the predators from the world, and the predators themselves seem to be capable of empathy and cross-cultural friendships. That would suggest that a similar adjustment to the setting's rowdy and abusive imperative must have been done by the prey societies as well.

What all this attempts to justify is Sichi, Martin and Nahata being capable of rationalizing away - or better yet, having cultural coping mechanisms for it, like farmer's humility for Martin, belief in the afterlife for Sichi, respect for the natural order for Nahata - the existential terror of traveling in Sacha's company, and their quest partially being about restoring the predators' food supply. This would mean no less cringing at Pacha's teasing, and more playing along the longer the team sticks together - especially since now all the ostensibly prey team members can have a predatory awakening. So going back to the Temple confrontation for an example, Martin should be grateful for as little as Pacha's promise of sparing him for until after the group have helped the rabbit village, as the latter would be his primary concern, being capable of (with a lot of rough shifting of the mental gears) relating to the stoats' village plight, as long as they look elsewhere for prey, thank you very much, and also being able to grudgingly rejoin Pacha (or stay at the Temple) if she withholds sympathy and goes for the utilitarian attitude, only attacking if actively provoked. This is just an example of how this change of attitude may affect the game world, not a petition for a rewrite! I love the how intense all resolutions for that scene are!

It's just that one approach offers majestic gripping high tragedy, and the other a lot of amusing vore-themed banter, and they don't mix well.

Tangentially, it's crossed my mind that since regurgitation is a thing in the setting, and the rate of digestion is governed by the the laws of drama, Pacha and other certified predators in the group could do more than just threat someone with eating them, as long as they cough them up afterwards. It'd be hell to script and keep track of, though, so it's just a thought.

About Sichi, her healing is indispensable during early game, but past he forest stage, combat tends to end in a couple rounds anyway (I tend to escape the harder Hive encounters, but even in the run during which I fought all the fights there, Sichi sometimes idled by), and there's enough money to fully replicate Sichi's healing with items, not to mention the Healer's Staff, so while still very useful for saving money on potions between combat, she tends to be the least involved in combat. The one exception is the advanced magic staves, but almost every other party member can use them. Low priority, I understand it, but I'm glad you're planning on nudging the priestess towards more active role. I'm talking about her as an integral party member, but to think that surely some players don't even include her in the party! What a game!

Apologies for failing to compress my points better again and again! And thank you for your work and engagement, as always!

Posted by BizzareBlue 3 years ago Report

Hmmmm, I’m not sure about softening some of the attitudes to predators. To me, vore loses a good chunk of its appeal when the prey’s reaction to it is not life or death. Still, I can see what you mean about the prey all needing ways to deflect or cope with the horrors of their world and traveling with Pacha in particular. The three mechanisms you’ve suggested do fit well with the respective characters, and I guess also that Meeri has a sense of discipline that helps her cope, while the fifth prey member (who unfortunately is one of the last to show up), will have their own approach.

The other thing you raise that I need to address further is that the rabbit village was definitely supposed to be a lot bigger than shown, however, as you said, the game doesn’t make adding large crowds very feasible (even as statues) so this is a little tricky to convey. I have seen some games add a large number of unenterable buildings to help with this, but I find those frustrating to encounter and was fairly reluctant to include even the few burned ones in the rabbit village. Still, I might try adding a few more statues and a route that leads deeper into the rabbit village that Pacha refuses to go down to hopefully give it the impression of being far larger than the parts Pacha sees.

Regurgitation might be an interesting concept to add. It would certainly be tricky and would work better in a system where the player had a certain number of slots for prey in their stomach, but there are ways around that. I think in this case the biggest problem with adding it is Pacha. I can’t really see her willingly letting anyone escape from her stomach after she had swallowed them.

And you make a good point about Sichi too. Her powers do get a little less useful as the game goes on, but I suppose that could fit well with my plans to add a trainer who can provide training in light based magic soon. I actually have an idea for where to put one now and, it would mean that a party with Sichi would be able to teach her some new spells just as her usefulness was starting to falter, and one with out would be able to train a few of their other characters in at least a few basic healing spells.

Posted by Astronommy 3 years ago Report

Since posting that last message, I've thought about the game's narrative method a lot, and I would say it works better as it is now than with any of the proposed changes in place, so I will try to limit my input to something that doesn't require domino alterations, exponential complexity spikes, or indulging tastes outside the primary scope of the game story from now on.

Couldn't agree more about the issues with dampening the fear of predators, it definitely lowers the stakes and undermines the main genre assumptions. My main justification for that was striving for more plausible psychology, but then excessive realism runs counter to indulgent fiction frameworks which exist solely to defy reality in some way. A good example of what I had in mind would be the sugar glider lady in Trader Town who, after initially failing to contain her horror at running into a stoat, still manages to strike a deal with her (admittedly, Pacha took initiative there), while expressing her distrust frankly, and only honoring the deal after solid results have been delivered to here, doing a good job keeping her calm since the initial startle (her confidence can be explained by the protections offered by the Trader Town, but she still trust Pacha to recognize those and act rationally).

It's a setting where predator and prey species both engage in their food chain relationships, and interact in civilized ways, so there would have to be -- likely fairly contrived and inconsistent -- social adaptations to this glaring internal contradiction. People in general tend to justify their actions, no matter how reprehensible, so as to feel like they're right, decent and good, and something similar could be expected from this setting. For someone in the prey role, it might be believing that predators cull the incompetent and undesirable in the society, or are agents of karma for the bad apples, or a social equalizer that affects the noble and the common alike; it's the difference between a man-eater wolf in the forest that's treated as mindless hazard that needs to be hunted down, or the same wolf being revered as a spirit of the wilds that needs to be honored and potentially placated with sacrifices.

Of course, the way different tribes and communities are presented in the story allows to include any number of varying attitudes as the primary policy in a given community, so a small community like the rabbit village would treat predators with resentment and dread, while a larger one, possibly isolated and removed from any predator interactions, would find it easier to be jovial towards Pacha and her team (the way the Queen of the Hive offers assistance to the party even despite suffering losses from their intrusion.

A few examples of prey species societies that would make the ethical equilibrium between predators and their victims less lopsided: a strict meritocracy with cloistered aristocracy living in a well-protected heart of a town, with the commoners serving as the buffer between the predators and the nobles -- Pacha could play Robin Hood there, get some delicacy meals while earning admiration of the prey paupers; a warlike tribe that raids/occupies a smaller prey tribe, and sends captives to nearby predator communities in exchange for protection -- any member of the dominant species who is sufficiently pleased with this arrangement would be a Sichi-approved eligible lunch for the party, and Pacha may even become a liberator; a spiritual community whose priestly leadership professes tolerance and support for the predator species, but in practice that translates into kidnapping predators and turning them into abused servants who are fed prey food with occasional fish treat, becoming emaciated and lethargic -- Pacha could spark a revolution there as well; two towns of different (or even the same) prey species locked in perpetual strife, and who occasionally employ predators as mercenaries and assassins, praising own predators and demonizing those employed by the other side -- could make a point for how the prey species tend to have both the numbers and the will to waste countless lives that could otherwise go to sustain predators.

Revisiting the Temple confrontation briefly, whatever I said earlier, Martin's characterization is perfectly spot on from this perspective: he was content being a docile hostage when he had little self-esteem, but having seen a bit of the world, and gotten some power, he understandably demands a more respected position in Pacha's party than that of a battlefield distraction and emergency rations.

On Pacha in regards to bringing prey back up, I agree that she would necessarily be the exception in order to reflect her personality, and as you rightly pointed out, it would be one of those cascading changes. Perhaps as a cutscene/dialogue vehicle with returning to status quo upon returning to gameplay, but making it into a mechanic would be more trouble that it's worth.

For the rabbit village size issue, there is the issue of Martin being able to determine his brother is missing despite not having had the time to explore all of the village, which locks the population on what can be seen in the village, I think. It may be better to simply add a line or two about this rabbit village being one of several in the region, simply closer to stoat's hunting grounds, and there's a a good deal of cross-pollination between the villages so if one of them is being hit hard by predation, new families quickly move in from the more crowded ones. Additionally, given the rabbits' connection to The Burrower and the expanse of their underground temple, it may be mentioned that rabbits actually use a robust network of tunnels connecting their villages instead of overground roads, or even having the bulk of their population inhabit underground cities with reasonably impregnable defenses (which would help explain how they could have survived living between the otters and the stoats for so long). This would prompt the explanation for why their expected caravan was traveling on the surface, perhaps something having to do with the faraway trading post, and the rabbit village sitting at the end of their tunnel branch.

Looking forward to Sichi getting her Light magic tutelage! However, upon having ruminated on that, I find it elegantly fitting that Sichi would be staying out of combat, her mechanical circumstances mirroring her personality.

Thank you for your work on the game and for responding!

Posted by BizzareBlue 3 years ago Report

Yeah, there are some suggestions that are either too complicated to add, or simply don’t fit with the plot I had in mind for the game, but I still don’t mind getting them. Some of them might be more workable than they appear, and even those that I can’t use in this game might be useful for future projects.

And yeah, there is always a certain amount of divulgence from reality that is unavoidable in most vore settings, and I guess finding ways to keep the more implausible aspects of it out of sight is part of the challenge of writing a good vore story. On the other hand, there is also a need to keep the game moving forward and not get trapped in lengthy explanations. The Bee Queen is one case where this applies. There was a lot that needed to be said with both Pacha summing up the plot so far to her, her delivering the exposition to keep the story going, the discussion about whether Pacha has killed an acceptable number of bees or not, and then possibly Meeri getting instructed to join the party. I’m still not really happy with the result as, to me, it feels both rushed for the amount of things that need to be covered and didn’t fully cover her motivations for choosing to help Pacha, but at the same time it seems to take a frustratingly long time to get through, especially on later playthroughs.

I think one reason the sugar glider manages to stay be so calm after the initial shock is that there are plenty of other predators living in Traders Town, so she has time to get used to them and to the idea that the laws are enough to keep her safe (admittedly she has probably not been there long, but it also is probably not her first time in that settlement or ones like it). Plus the guard at the front gate was standing pretty close so she had plenty of reason to believe Pacha wouldn’t try anything. Again, I wasn’t sure if I should have gone into more detail here.

I have to admit, I really like the idea of prey viewing predators as forces of karma or balance and might have to work some more of that idea into the game and possibly into Nahata’s philosophy in particular. Sacrifices might also be interesting, and I can see Pacha reacting a few different ways to the idea. I’ll have to see if I can find a good place to add that kind of content.

Your descriptions of possible other prey societies raise some very intriguing ideas. Unfortunately, most of those are going to be difficult to include, at least in this story. I have the main locations that Pacha is going to visit and the details of what each one is like and how they interact with the others planned out already and a lot of those societies would be difficult to include alongside the main plot (which still hasn’t really got started). It does make me want to look into working on a sequel, however, where I could explore the societal interactions between predators and prey in a little more detail. Still, that might be getting too far ahead of myself given how far this game still is from being complete.

Having one of the others regurgitate prey in a cut scene is definitely plausible. I can see Felgate using the threat of being digested to coerce someone into cooperating with him, and being honorable enough to keep his word and spit them back out if they do as he asks. I don’t have an idea for what could have prompted that though (and any scene were the prey was swallowed and regurgitated would need and equivalent for if Pacha turned up without any pred-capable allies) but I’ll keep an eye out for any good places to include it.

Hmmm, that’s definitely a point I had not considered about trying to make the rabbit village seem bigger. I guess one way of mitigating it would be that Martin only looked in the places he thought his brother might be. He was a priest and presumably spent the vast majority of his time in the temple, so Martin checked there. It’s not a great explanation though given how certain he seems that his brother is definitely not one of the statues. Implying that the majority of the rabbit village is underground might help a little though.

As for Sichi, the main idea I had for her offensive spells was for her to be able to summon various spirits/angels/demigods that are aligned with Araya and fight on her behalf. So she would still be mostly remaining out of the violent side of things while still being able to contribute more than mere healing and protection from status effects. It would also somewhat mirror the way Felgate’s undead minions work which fits well with their interactions.

Posted by Astronommy 3 years ago Report

Thank you for deeming some of my suggestions worthwhile! It is very tempting to try and steer someone else's project towards my own vision, but I respect the authorial control over the story, and the amount of effort any kind of revision would require, so I will gratefully accept any direction the game goes. It is very impressive to hear how far you've had the story planned already! It's only to be excepted given the characteristic complex plots in your other works, of course.

If I my be so bold as to plea for one game element to be given extra consideration, it would be the tracking of the prey team members' predation history. You have already done unbelievably solid job implementing this concept with Sichi and Martin reacting to each others' live meals, so it's something that is worth developing further, or at least being acknowledged later on. Ideally, there should be three degrees of that value for each character: for when they've only eaten their gateway character, for when they've tried eating an innocent (besides their natural hostility) prey character/enemy, and one for when they've been eating people for long enough to get accustomed to it and lose the alibi of those cased being forced or exceptional, a little like the casualty count at the audience with the Queen. I believe those would make for utterly different attitudes, all presently accessible in the game, and partially implemented. I'm sure you are intending to include at least the recognition of whether those characters are capable of predation, so there were my suggestions for expanding on this.

As with everything else, I would enjoy the game in any case!

***

The the sugar glider trader's calm demeanor is well explained by the scene taking place in a guarded town, true, but that town is fairly densely populated by predators, and the wolf guard at the gates is offering to collar prey (a necessary mechanic for the ocelot fighter quest, of course) rather than other predators so they couldn't eat someone inside. More importantly, any person reacting to being assigned the role of a prey realistically would have difficulty not only trusting the predators to keep their end of a bargain, but to tolerate being in their presence, in the same way an average person would feel if forced to interact with a known serial killer even if there's a guard nearby (who is also a serial killer). Most characters in the game have that slightly happy-go-lucky or matter-of-factly outlook on the horrible nature of their world, as stipulated by the genre, in a sort of frontier wagon trail/anime high school drama stylistic mix that works very well for the story, so it's only the few moments in the plot when the drama of predation if played up that it strikes me as inconsistent. But then, stories mustn't be consistent to be enjoyable or memorable.

The Hive throne room scene felt really appropriately sized to me: the tension of still dealing with an elusive and extremely powerful threat, the hope of running into a community that has successfully fended off such an attack, the insular nature of the bee collective being reconciled with Pacha's determined pathfinding methods, the attachment of the Hive's representative to the group all required a lot of space to unfurl, but never felt overdone.

The regurgitation scenes could have having another predator on the team as a requirement, with non-predators perhaps offering more diplomatic alternatives, appealing to prey kinship or something similar.

Giving Sichi summoning capabilities later in the game that would mechanically link the priestess to the necromancer is a terrific idea, looking forward to seeing it in action! I will admit that I have so far shied away from summoning Felgate's undead, I should try that. There may also be merit in exploring what Araya the goddess stands for: it is habitual for priestly characters to draw from the same Christian-themed well of restorative miracles, but if Sichi's patron is a goddess of harvest and all thematically and culturally adjacent phenomena, that opens up a more druid-like naturalistic flavor of spells, and perhaps elemental ones as well, tides of the seasons and all that.

I'm ashamed to admit I don't remember his exact words, but it does make sense for Martin to conclude his brother's disappearance if him being at the temple would be both the latter's usual work routine, and his after work accommodations, and the standard procedure for when the village is under attack (to pray for Burrower's intervention, or to seal the temple away), so his absence there would translate directly into Martin's brother having been abducted.

Thank you for your attention, as always! Looking forward to the next update!

Posted by Grapefruitvenison 3 years ago Report

If you are worried about the bee queen being tedious, you could have a dialogue choice where Pacha either interrupts the queen or lets her continue, that way returning players will know they can skip the dialogue.
Also, one of the (minor) frustrations of starting a new game is having to go to the rabbit village gate before the traders town, as you know it's a dead end but you can't progress without going there. It's not a big deal though.

Posted by BizzareBlue 3 years ago Report

That's a really good idea, and I'll definitely try to put that in soon.

And yeah, I can see what you mean about that. Initially I wrote it so that Pacha could go straight to Traders Town for the talisman, but then decided that made no sense from a story perspective as she just asks the sugar glider how to get past a gate she has yet to encounter. I can see why that is frustrating on multiple playthroughs though and will have a look at it and see if there is a way to have someone in Traders Town mention the talisman if Pacha hasn't been to the gate.

Posted by Astronommy 3 years ago Report

Just finished a bit of extensive dialogue tree exploration of the Burrower Temple scene, and I have to apologize for my earlier careless criticisms about that amazing monument to creative diligence!

First off, all the possible options for resolving the confrontation with Martin fully acknowledge and account for the entire spectrum of attitudes that prey characters may have towards the predators, and it's presented in very intuitive and consequence-sensitive way. The teasing is mentioned. The prey collar is taken into account. It's a magnificent scene, and nitpicking it was wrong.

Secondly, the explanation from my earlier suggestion about the circumstances of Martin' brother's whereabouts are already present in the dialogue for that scene, sorry for missing that!

I have also come to realized that the disparity the realism of various characters' behaviors and reactions is the foundational driving element in this particular flavour of vore fiction, namely that characters react with plausible intenseness of feeling to the harsh realities of the story's world, while the world itself makes such interactions commonplace. So that line of criticism was faulty as well, apologies for having spent so much of your time and attention before figuring this out!

Posted by BizzareBlue 3 years ago Report

Sorry for the slow reply, I’ve been pretty engrossed in getting the next update ready and have not been checking my messages properly.

Currently the game does keep track of one extra detail in addition to whether they have unlocked their predatory side, and that’s whether they have eaten anyone of their own species (which currently is only possible for Sichi but will be an option for Nahata as well in the next update), and a few things do change depending on the cannibalism flag. A has-eaten-innocent-people flag might be interesting as well, but it might also be slightly ambiguous as to who counts for it. The bees are pretty aggressive to the player, but are arguable just defending their home from what looks like an attack so they might count as innocent. Then again, not eating them results in them trying to set the guard on you so they are also pretty ungrateful if nothing else. The mice would be the most obviously innocent characters… but they also attack without provocation, even if they are mostly doing so out of fear. I’m not really sure which ones would therefore set that flag for different characters. I do love the idea of having a count for the number of people eaten by each character and of gradually shifting the prey characters’ attitudes towards predation as they get more comfortable in their new role.

Hmmm, I can see why the sugar glider would find being in a settlement full of serial killers very unnerving, but there is good reason for her to not see it like that. A serial killer doesn’t follow the rules of their society but, within Traders Town, most people do. As such, the closest analogy I can think of might be a civilian meeting a soldier of some country that has been at war with theirs, while both are in some third neutral country. She knows the predators are not going to attack her, and that they would be breaking the law if they did and would immediately get arrested for it. She also knows that they may well have killed people she knew and is pretty uncomfortable with that idea. Still, she was supposed to have been working as a trader for some time so has probably been to a lot of places where she has to deal with carnivores and become fairly good at putting the discomfort aside to focus on her job. Also, the mixed or predatory settlements that don’t ensure the safety of visiting merchants would very quickly earn a reputation and get blacklisted by anyone except other predators. Pacha actually mentions that that kind of happened to her village at one point.

I’m glad the throne room scene felt balanced to you. I might try adding in a speed option that hurries through the dialogue as Chickenpie suggests, but I’ll leave the current version as the default option.

In terms of what Araya stands for, she is usually viewed as the ‘nice’ god out of her pantheon, perhaps a little judgemental, but generally believed to stand for mercy, compassion, and stuff like that. Part of the reason is that, to herbivores living in pre-industrial settlements, the ability to ensure the harvest provides enough food for everyone is one of the best powers any god could have, and the healing and light aspects only reinforce that image of her. A Druidic theme is probably more appropriate for the Tunneler though, as he is the one aligned to earth and nature magic. Plus he’s the god of Martin’s village which further connects him to druid themes. I am definitely looking forward getting to the parts where some of the other gods will get more than a passing mention though.

Also, you certainly shouldn’t apologize for going through the details of how predators and prey interact and finding the bits that are inconsistent. As you pointed out, a certain amount of divergence from reality is needed to get most types of vore story to work correctly and often the trick is to either hide the parts that cause problems out of sight, or to provide explanations that help the reader justify the difficult parts. If it catches your attention as not feeling right, then either something I had hoped was out of sight was actually still obvious, or an explanation is either missing, or insufficient to justify the problem. Either way, it helps to know which parts felt wrong when you were playing through, and I’ll look through and see if I can find any ways to fix them.

Thanks again for the input, and I hope you are keeping well.

Posted by Astronommy 3 years ago Report

Thank you for the encouragement on offering feedback! I will nonetheless try harder to avoid bringing up essential or genre-imposed issues, and focus on more reasonable venues for improvement, which are far fewer than the former category.

As far as the concealment of necessary breaks from realism go, the game holds up nicely, and the tone is appropriate and evenly sustained throughout the runtime so far, the mounting suspense of the developing plot is likewise carried out splendidly.

And don't let getting back to my messages be a factor in managing your time! It's very heartening to know you've been working hard on the eagerly anticipated next segment of the game, but no justification is owed to anyone for you to take a time off from this site, especially during electoral period in the US!

With how species-oriented most communities are presented in the game, that cannibalism flag may do a lot of narrative work yet, it's a great idea! Personally, I don't attach special value to characters eating those belonging to one species or another, but it's natural the characters themselves would feel more strongly about that subject.

I agree with some of Martin's darker assessments of the predators' place in the world, so by innocent I meant any prey people devoured, regardless if they've acted in a hostile manner to the party. If the choice is to devour or to let the defeated herbivore enemy flee, that makes it a bit less defensible as self-defense. The Hive makes it more difficult, and I remember at one point attempting to see whether a large number of defeats-and-releases would embarrass the defenders into dropping their hostility and escorting Pacha to the Queen, but I guess it goes with their theme that they don't relent.

While on the subject of tracking values, here's one more prospective one that has occurred to me, although it's one of those ripple effect ones that would be unmanageable for how little difference it makes -- a loyalty tracker. There are situations when Pacha is devoured during combat (by nagas, plants or frogs), and by that point, neither Martin nor Sichi -- both natural early game picks -- would have too much incentive saving the nominal leader of the party, so the idea would be to just have a brief exchange of dialogue by the unencumbered party members, followed by a Game Over screen in case not enough of the teammates have the loyalty tag. Nahata is sworn to Pacha from the moment he is recruited, Martin's loyalty would be earned after the Tunneler Temple scene, and Sichi's after rescuing a mouse from the naga. Again, it's just an idea, it wouldn't do much for that game, except perhaps balancing out the solo playthrough style with the party one.

On the sugar glider's professional nonchalance, I meant "serial killers" more as a biographical descriptor: all predators in an obligate carnivore setting have, by definition, devoured dozens of people by the time they're independent adults*. And more than that, it's an essential need that the predators always have. The soldiers can be seen as be detached from the grim realities of the ongoing war, but that's not the case with predators.

Beside the trust issues with the predator-heavy legal authority of the Trader Town offering its citizens protection, there is also the question of unlawful elements: at the time of Pacha's first interaction with the sugar glider trader, there is a rogue necromancer, a deadly ghost, a weakened but still powerful predator species warrior having an existential crisis, an actual serial killer who has secretly claimed the lives of three townspeople already, and a dojo teacher who has the capacity to abduct someone into another dimension if they say the wrong thing to her (just discovered that scene, by the way, took my completely by surprise with how robust it was, excellent job!). Many of those cases could have occurred in a prey community, however, and you make a good point about reputation and traders' special status that would normally make even the predators unbound by any laws think twice of attacking if they are dependent on those supplies. On a side note, I have to applaud your authorial audacity in treating Trader Town as just a regular settlement when in any other setting it would have been an eldritch monster town that only the bravest, the vilest and the most desperate would dare enter -- the cemetery site is almost as large as the rest of the town! Not a criticism, just honestly finding myself in awe of that.

That said, it still does validate the original point about how an average member of a prey species would eventually become jaded or resigned to the existence of predators, and while they would still take every precaution to lower their chances of ending up someone's meal, they would generally be accepting of predators' existence and needs. That point was made in relation to my compunctions about Martin's demands for a more dignified treatment, which I now see as well justified, considering what is being asked of him, so there's no further argument from me on any of that, and thank you for bearing with me!

It makes sense to have The Tunneler be connected with nature magic, although the way the associated Temple looks and functions, and given the mole appearance, that deity would also have chthonic connotations, a primordial Deep God that is both inscrutable, powerful and still somehow benign. Thank you for an insight on Araya, and it would be very curious to learn more about the gods of this setting!

A bit of a bug hunt report: if, upon entering the woods for the first time and asking Nahata to serve as a guide, and then running ahead of him during the second forest map, there is the presciently coded moment when his falling prey to the Frog Queen is heard in the distance by the party, and the ranger can be rescued normally. However, upon reentering the woods having done that and having finished the dryad quest, Nahata's sprite appears and starts his guide routine, complete with the capture scene, even though the squirrel is supposed to be at the inn at that point; I don't know if that happens even if Nahata is in the party.

I also have a question about the rabbit ghosts that are summoned by Farmer Martin during a fight - are they supposed to be unkillable? Martin goes down normally, the ghost can have their life bars depleted, but persist and eventually defeat Pacha. I'm asking because in other events when the Tunneler Temple ghosts are confronted, they are defeatable. Thank you in advance!


* -- It's one of those uncomfortable subject best kept out of sight: how are predators fed in their early years? Do they transition from being breastfed into a full carnivore mode? Are they fed prey children of appropriate age? Do predator communities butcher some of the caught prey for these purposes? are they just fed fish? Or does the need for sentient meals simply not surface until puberty?

Posted by BizzareBlue 3 years ago Report

Thanks again. The next update is more aimed at polishing the content already added than putting in much new stuff, so I had hoped it would be fairly quick, but it is taking far longer than most of the other ones. There were various things in the game that were done the fast way instead of the correct way and that I’ve been meaning to fix for some time. Also, I’m not in America so can’t really use the elections there as an excuse for getting distracted, although I have been watching how things go with interest.

Yeah, a lot of the characters do attach importance to which species they belong to, and eating or sparing npcs of a party member’s species can have a pretty strong affect of their happiness levels. So far the cannibalism flag doesn’t change much other than a few bits of dialogue (Sichi can’t really get mad at Martin for helping himself to a few mice when she’s been doing the same after all), but I do have some more stuff planned for it for other species.

Hmmmmm, that is a good point. I’ll look into adding an innocent-eaten flag at some point then. The bees realizing they are up against a lost cause is an interesting idea as well, although as you said, a complete refusal to back down even once it becomes clear that they are outmatched does fit well with them.

Loyalty is somewhat managed by the happiness counter and, since adding it, I’ve been looking to put in more situations where one of the party will choose to help or keep out of the way on some issue depending on their happiness. Martin has slightly different dialogue in the throne room depending on how high his happiness is and how he presents Pacha changes how many bees you can get away with having eaten. Having the party outright abandon Pacha if she gets herself eaten in certain situations depending on both their happiness and the loyalty factors you mentioned would be interesting though.

Ah, that makes sense. And yeah, I might have to add some more prey species to Traders Town at some point as they do seem to lean heavily towards the pred side right now, making it more of a highly variable pred settlement with a few prey members than I had intended. The cemetery also isn’t supposed to come off as quite as large as it currently does. One of the general rules I’ve been following with this is to make most combat areas in the game around three to four screens long and have a different theme and at least one different mechanic from all other areas, which is why the graveyard ended up that size. Also, I’m glad you found the succubus’s area as that was one of the more hidden snippets.

Yeah, chthonic does describe the Tunneler quite well, although his temple would usually be at least a little less gloomy than when Pacha gets to see it. There is also one other god that can be encountered in the current version, although its content is still fairly unpolished and deliberately hard to find.

Ah. Thanks for catching that with Nahata. I’m pretty sure I know what caused that, and it should should be fixed when the next update comes out. The immortal ghosts where also a bug, and a far worse one. They definitely should have been defeatable. That should be fixed as well in the next version.

And yeah, that last point is one of the major aspects of the story that I try to keep shuffled out of sight. I don’t really have a good answer for how it works in this setting and all of those are possible ways to go. Primarily fed on fish might be the one I lean most towards, but it’s probably not going to get a clear answer in the game.

Posted by Astronommy 3 years ago Report

Thank you for addressing all the remaining points of this long discussion!

My sympathies for the early sections of the game proving tricky to clean up! Makes me feel very uncomfortable about my earlier suggestions of fundamental changes that would have made the process even harder! I've been playing Stardew Valley that has a similar rustic atmosphere and a focus on unique character interaction to what Pacha's Quest has to offer, and the parallels between the two now makes be long for the time management mechanics like the day and night cycle in your game, and for vorish themes in the other one; it would have been fantastic mechanical marriage between the two to have a hunger meter that's constantly ticking away, and failing to keep all the predator characters fed for too long would cause them to turn on their prey comrades or essential NPCs, thus keeping a sense of tension in the gameplay that's thematically intertwined with the central conflict and the titillating aspect of the game. But I have learned my lesson, and this isn't a suggestion, just a vaguely related musing.

One more thing I have been feeling guilty about was being too particular about the predator-heavy character assortment in Pacha's Quest, because while it still makes more sense to me to set a story like this in a herbivore-majority society, the kind of interaction experience that having a lot of predators that can bond over their needs and experiences is a much rarer narrative approach and a more interesting and engaging setup for a story with a predator protagonist.

The happiness meter and how its affected by the dialogue options in the larger storyline and the smaller bantery scenes is an ingenious mechanic, and I would be on the lookout for the instances of it affecting the events of the game! I was wondering why had my party been given a pass by the Queen after them showing up with about thirty devoured bees weighing on their conscience, it must have been Martin playing advocate like you explained.

Glad to have helped by finding that bug with the ghosts! And I haven't discovered that bit featuring another god, sadly, although the was that part with Pacha getting chastised for failing to identify a fountain statue of an water deity.

Thank you for your work on this game, and for continuing to be exceptionally generous about giving interviews on it!

* * *

Lastly, I do have a smaller and hopefully easy-to-implement suggestion inspired by my Stardew Valley experience: individual neutral characters scattered here and there that have some minor business that they need some help with (require some common items, gold or directions), so Pacha would have the choice to either just help them out for a little experience and her herbivore party member's compliments, devour them for a larger experience and monetary gain (if they're defenseless and isolated), or send them towards the Stoat Village on some innocent pretense, with the latter two options causing the predator teammates to praise Pacha, and the rest of the party to grumble.

The point of this would be to allow the players to affirm their stance on predator-prey relations that's outside of the main plot or combat and give an extra tool for moderating happiness levels, and the selling point of this is it's a cookie cutter game device that only requires one-two lines from each of the potential party members, and bit more for Pacha and for the character themselves, and it would allow you to populate any part of the game world and feed the players all the little snippets of lore or hints as need arises, and add representation for the species you've not had the excuse to add, all by using a convenient template to supplement the more fleshed out quests.

The complexity of such characters would likewise be easy to scale with the region's difficulty: they could offer that choice just after their introduction, or only become available for that choice after some previous quest completion boxes have been ticked, or after the party has reached a certain level, or after finishing their little variable-objective quest, or if certain party members are present. This suggestion hinges on the sprites for those characters getting plucked from the library wholesale - it would obviously be a nightmare to furnish each one with a unique altered sprite.

Posted by BizzareBlue 3 years ago Report

I really didn’t mean it like that. There are aspects of the code where I either figured out a much better way of doing something later, or knew how it should be done at the time but went with a faster/easier solution anyway, and now I’m tidying them up a little. It certainly doesn’t mean that suggestions for other mechanics are unwelcome. New ideas for what to add are always helpful and even the ones that wouldn’t be possible to add to this game could work well in a later one. A day night cycle and a hunger cycle are good examples of that. One problem with them is that rpgmaker really isn’t well suited to time based effects. While it does have a few functions like that, it can only really run one timer at once and doing so blocks any others. There might be a way around that, but it’s probably not simple. Still, a game that didn’t measure time in terms of real time, but by actions taken might be more feasible. If every few steps the character took and every move they used in battle emptied the stomach bar a little it would result in a game where every move had to be carefully thought about before being taken. Probably not the right theme for something like Pacha’s Quest, but might be interesting in some later project.

Hmmm, when working out the characters I went with 5 preds and 5 prey, partly on the basis that that gave the player the most flexibility when choosing their party members. It’s possible to make an entirely pred party and still have some options about who to include or an almost entirely prey party if you want to play a version of Pacha who prefers travelling with prey. Still, the world they are in needs to have the prey species as the vast majority, so I can see that it would make more sense to have her encounter more prey companions than preds (although I guess the flip side of that is that fellow predators she meets might be a lot more willing to consider joining her party). Also, there is definitely a problem with the ratio predators to prey among the characters Pacha meets in the early game and I definitely need to add more prey npcs to Traders Town to make it feel like a properly mixed settlement.

Hmmm, even in the best case scenario, thirty bees is too many for her to assign Meeri to your party, but if you do everything else right you can just about get away with having eaten up to forty without her attacking you outright.

The bug with the ghosts and the one with Nahata spawning a duplicate were both really helpful. Also, no, the water god doesn’t count as the other deity that Pacha can encounter. To give a slight hint, they are somewhere in the Trader Town/Graveyard part of the map although you can’t actually find them until you’ve reached the otter village at least..

Yeah, some more neutral characters would be good. I have been working on adding a couple of side quest characters in the current update, but some smaller characters with very simple interactions and dialogue would help add some more variety to the game and possibly serve to make the more detailed ones stand out a little more. I’ll try adding some soon. Getting simple sprites for them shouldn’t be a problem either as the game has a tool for automatically generating new faces and sprites.

Thanks again. This has helped a lot and I am definitely going to try to get some more minor npcs ready to add soon.

Posted by Astronommy 3 years ago Report

Thank you in turn for assuaging my worries!

I'm still pleased I haven't been able to sabotage the making of this game, thanks to your sober understanding of what is feasible, and for your patient rundowns for every one of my suggestions!

The day/night cycle would boggle everything down if implemented, but I agree that in the absence of the proper tool for it, some circumstantial triggers could be used to accomplish it in theory, like upon passing set distance or changing between area screens.

Moving on, I believe the playable characters are very well balanced along the lines of their dietary alignment, and although I have my favorite picks for the party, all of the main ensemble have their individuality and appeal. I am very eager to see Meeri get her chance to shine in the next chapter, as she's been disadvantaged in that area due to how late she's recruited.

I also wanted to temper my earlier expressed incredulity about the predator/prey ratio in Traders Town with pointing out to my past self that the main business center of that settlement is populated largely by humans, with the exception of the undead and the demonic tutors, and provided humans are considered prey or at least neutral in regards to who eats who, that just about strikes the demographic balance throughout the town, especially after the player party whisks away two of the most interesting local predators.

Thank you for the tip, by the way! I've found that place now, and besides being a suitably ominous discovery, it also offered a game mechanic that I'd been missing in all my earlier playthroughs! And in my searches, I believe I've also stumbled upon a glitch: if Pacha follows the outside of the cemetery's fence, her path is eventually barred by a bush doodad, and activating it crashes the game for me, referring to something missing at the destination "Graphics/Faces/Pacha_faces", similar to the now-addressed crashing issue with Martin at the Stoat Village inn.

I have also figured out one of the causes for my earlier obstinacy about Martin's characterization -- a game that relies on party-building has inverse suspense dynamics with a vore (or romance, or any kind of character-driven drama) story, whereby in former the characters commonly become more stably connected and established through their interaction, while in the latter the closer the story draws to the finale, the more imperiled and volatile the fate of at least some of the cast becomes. Of course, in the game it's usually the external forces that present a threat or another motivating factor, so the suspense can still be gradually ramped up until the climax.

It has occurred to me, though -- and this is most emphatically not a prompt or a suggestion -- that in the same you have implemented those charming little exchanges between the party members, little character-specific storylines could be developed, involving characters revealing and building on their ambitions that shake up the sense of stability in late game. I'm also sure that the main storyline would have enough inter-character conflict to produce the same effect, what with all those personal experience trackers you've got going for each character!

Thank you again, and best of luck!

Posted by Astronommy 3 years ago Report

Fresh from a bug hunt: if Pacha talks to the seal dignitary to the Otter Village while standing in the lower right corner of the little platform beside the preyball playing field, the ensuing animation upon agreeing to play a round with her has Pacha start walking straight down, resulting in an endless waiting period as she's continuously stuck on the edge of the little platform.

There is also the new Spiderling enemy type that is all sorts of fun and very imaginatively and flavorfully designed, but I've had an encounter where once several party members have been freed from their cocoons, future cocoons started exhibiting the Temple ghost invulnerability phenomenon, i.e. surviving with a fully depleted health bar.

And I know the subject of the Hive being difficult to get through has been brought up before by others, and addressed in an update as well, but here's an anecdote from the Hive section of my recent playthrough: during an encounter, a regular random Bee Worker managed to turn one of my party members into honey while the others flailed helplessly, despite the remaining team counting two dedicated fighters and Felgate with a few elemental spells beside Darkness learned. Now, the party was mostly around level ten, so a bit of grinding would have insured me against such scenario, but unless you are making a point about the power of a common worker (which I would be completely on board with), that particular enemy type seems just a little bit over the top. When a Bee Guard Double Strike's a healthy party member to death, it at least feels mechanically justified and thematically appropriate.

And combat expectations is one thing, but there's also the unfortunate story-wide implication of the bees being so individually powerful while also having a reputation for being a mighty numerous collective, being referred to as prey while also being fully capable of -- and apparently, routinely practicing -- turning people into honey (no comment on the rivers of the stuff running through their massive keep). I don't want to add to my heaping pile of impractical suggestions, but the way I see it, making the bees be weaker on their own, but fighting in swarms, would be more natural. Their high damage attacks I accept, but I would say their health, accuracy, defense and magic resistance values should be dropped significantly, the honey spray attack changed to only affect a single character, and the successful devouring chance lowered -- perhaps balancing it a little with better evasion and a poison attack -- and have them start showing up in groups of three and four, or perhaps in those replenishing flocks like the jellyfish in the river portion of the game, once the alarm has been sounded.

Again, it's not a proper suggestion: that part of the game is still manageable for all playstyles, the effort for implementing the change would be better off allocated elsewhere, there's the grinding option, there are the advanced magic staves, the elemental bombs, Vir with Fury Strikes, Martin with Nettle Patch, and while escaping from combat seems to have become harder in later updates, it's still very possible to get that single bee casualty goal.

Posted by Grapefruitvenison 3 years ago Report

sorry to butt in, but reading your guys discourse is really interesting. I feel like one of the big things with the bees is that you go from doing (in my case) 200 damage with one attack right before the bees, to doing 0-10 damage against the bees. To be fair though, I've stayed away from any magical items, and only buy claws and swords to buff damage, so when damage drops to 10, it feels like it's an impossible challenge. It would probably achieve the same thing without the frustration if the bee's health was increased, rather than their defence. So you would still feel like you were doing something because you are still doing high damage, but the challenge is still there. I've been waiting to see how things change in the next update before forming an opinion though.

Posted by Astronommy 3 years ago Report

Thanks for taking interest! BizzareBlue has been very patient and gracious with my pestering them about every detail!

The power spike with the bees really sneaks up on you, yeah. There are quite a few ways around that, as I mentioned.

But really, it's just the lack of contextual clues for it that bothers me; if it had been a community of armadillo people, or beaver people known in-story for their armor crafting, I wouldn't have batted an eye. It could be that they have some sort of a subcutaneous chitinous plating, as per their insectoid theme, though!

Posted by BizzareBlue 3 years ago Report

I guess if you scaled something like a bee up to near human size (and made adjustments to deal with all the inverse square problems) their exoskeleton would need to be pretty thick, so their stripy abdomens in this probably do serve as decent enough shields. Still, they probably do need to be toned down a little further.

Posted by BizzareBlue 3 years ago Report

Hmmm, that’s a good point, and I can see why that’s frustrating. I kind of wanted to use high hp and low armor for the boss enemies and low hp high armor for the small monsters like the bees. I guess the idea was that an enemy that can survive a hit for 200 damage and still have more than half its health feels big while one that might be very tough but dies after taking a few hundred damage comes across as less flashy while still requiring the same amount of work to kill.

Still, I agree that the bees are still too tough right now and will try lowering their defense a little more for the next update. If it helps, fire and ice damage are particularly effective against them.

Posted by BizzareBlue 3 years ago Report

Hmmmm, I thought I’d fixed that problem with the seal already, but maybe that was another character doing the same thing. Still, it should be fairly easy to sort out and I’ll try to get it fixed soon.

Ah, yeah, I think I know what is causing the spider cocoons to do that. I’ll try to get that fixed in the next update as well.

Yeah, the workers are pretty tough compared to the guards. It wasn’t supposed to be a comment on them, but I was worried that making them much weaker than the guards would leave that area feeling unbalanced. I agree that they are still too powerful though, even after having been toned down a little several times. Hmmmm, maybe I should look for some places to add some fairly powerful armor just before the hive, which might make it easier to prevent the double strike from hitting so hard… or maybe a better weapon nearby to make rescuing devoured party members easier.

Swarms of bees might work, but one reason I avoided that when first designing it, was that when I drew the bee characters I made the art fairly large (partly because the screen size rpgmaker allows is tiny and it’s difficult to make good looking enemies in the limited space). Because of that, they look kind of crowded on the screen if they attack in groups. I’ll play around with it a little and see if I can make something that works a little better.

The difficulty in escaping them shouldn’t have changed though. That might just be the rng playing games with you, but maybe that’s something that should be tweaked a little as well. The player already gets penalized for running from a fight in that area (and kinda penalized for each fight won as well once they reach the end) so it makes sense to make escaping pretty easy in that case.

Posted by Astronommy 3 years ago Report

Thank you for that involved rundown of the technical issues behind the game features I complained about! And again, it pains me to see my lackadaisical musings be treated like stern notes from the publisher, and be given so much attention and urgency! The insights into the game's design particulars are obviously dearly appreciated, however!

I've tried a run-through of the Hive with a slightly better prepared party, and it was a breeze, both in terms of fighting and fleeing from the enemies -- you were right, it was just my defeatist perception of a bad streak of escape rolls after all! And my previous misgivings about the difficulty level in that area were dampened by my pigheaded refusal to optimize my party for combat, and make use of some of the more helpful features of the game in that department -- the advanced magic staves, learning the devastating Fury Blades, utilizing Martin's equally destructive Nettle/Ivy Patch, giving every capable team member the slightly overpowered Steel Claws -- either of which would have enabled a painless cruising through the bee city, so you have my apologies for raising false alarms!

And I agree to another message of yours, the scaled-up bees would likely be pretty touch to crack with their carapaces. Thank you for the tip about their elemental weakness! I wonder if instead of tweaking them in any way, or sprinkling extra helpful items, you could just put a random otter barring the newly-repaired bridge that would warn the party that the Hive has been riled up by something, and that the bees are extremely dangerous in combat, after which the otter would be on their way. Of course, the taste of what's to come is offered by the fearless captain of the Hive's guard greeting the player, followed by the lethal archers; I guess I am just bad at taking hints.

I have to applaud you for the game design genius of the river section of the game, by the way! The way it restricts the team composition, encourages using Vir, involves money-sink consumable items, creates a tension for the necessary exploration, integrates the enemy abilities like summoning allies or, most recently, and most brilliantly -- just dragging out the fight with dialogue while the air counter ticks on! -- the way the shipwreck portion makes use of items from way, way back, and enforces the return trip for an extra ally with the tough undead enemies, who can also be rendered manageable with specific items found in the Otter Village store, the way the Wind Crystal drain can be cheated by diving in and out of the riverbank for some monster-hunting -- all of that is just one elegantly sublime marvel of conception and execution that might have merited a separate game all on its own!

Also, I don't believe I have ever given you my regards for the massive number of art pieces you've included in the game, completing the writer-designer-artist polymath trifecta and securing you a place among the very best what this community has had to offer! The addition of a game over screen for a defeated Pacha, for instance, that was highlighted by the recent update, was very much noticed and appreciated! It's a real shame some of those -- like the combat sprites for Martin, the Hive Queen and Meeri -- would remain unseen by most of the orthodox players, but the replayability maniac demographic will forever be grateful for your effort fleshing out even the most unlikely eventualities!

Posted by Grapefruitvenison 3 years ago Report

I agree. Super clever how you have to use wind crystals as fuel for the diving helmet, so you will probably have heaps spare, and then those are the same item that increase your defence against the bees. I wouldn't be surprised if the next enemies were weak to wind attacks. The river is really well done, in that it suggests Vir so heavily, that it can be assumed that the player will have Vir in their party while underwater.

Posted by Astronommy 3 years ago Report

Well caught; I completely forgot about the other use those crystals have, and that the bees like their wind magic!

With enough preparations and the right equipment, the river section -- including the squid lady and the captain of the shipwreck -- can be done with just Pacha, but the convenience of part of the game very heavily hinges on having Vir in the party, while the hints about the otters being capable of making do without a helmet are also quite subtle, rewarding the player for paying attention to the dialogue, even if it makes a lot of sense in retrospect.

Posted by BizzareBlue 3 years ago Report

Thanks, I’m glad you liked that… but it was also kind of a coincidence. I hadn’t really planned that the spare crystals would come in useful immediately, it just kind of worked out that way by chance. And… yeah, in the next area wind attacks are going to be particularly useful, but again that’s more by random chance due to the enemies I already had planned for it than an overall strategy. I probably should have just kept quiet about that and pretended it was all planned out like that from the start though.

Posted by BizzareBlue 3 years ago Report

It’s good to have critical feedback and someone pointing out which aspects of the game aren’t working well or feel problematic though. It’s very easy to overlook balance issues because they didn’t come up in my playstyle, and to assume everyone knows aspects of the game’s setting that I worked out on paper but haven’t got round to putting into the game yet (such as you pointing out that Traders Town is predominantly preds as it stands). These all really help.

Glad it went better with a more prepared party. I guess that one thing most parties are not short on is ways to incapacitate or stunlock a single enemy, so that strategy is probably good against the hive. Actually, maybe reducing the enemies strength a little further and giving them a couple of small allies would help balance out that strategy against the others. I’ll have to look into that.

Hmmm, I actually thought I had talked up the strength of the hive a little too much at points. Martin or Vir usually mentions it when returning from the Tunneler’s Temple. I think Sanvine says something about it when Pacha first mentions that her plan is to use them to fight the masked mage, and both Vir and Martin make another attempt to dissuade Pacha as she gets close… although thinking about it, most of those are focused on how hostile the hive is to visitors than directly about their strength. Still, having an otter mention the strengths and weaknesses of the bees instead of leaving it up to the player’s trial and error to discover, would be a much better system. I’ll look into adding that soon.

I will admit, part of the reason for the river mechanics was to provide a motive for the players to actually want to keep her around, given how much more useful Sichi is in the early game, and the tempting use for her as mouse food. It’s probably one of the less well tested areas though as, honestly, the timer stresses me out a little so I often try to press through that area as fast as possible and rarely bother to pick up anything that I am not specifically checking. Oh, and the wind crystal trick works because I assumed everyone’s helmets would start with some air in when they first jump in. I guess that does raise the question of why Pacha refuses to even consider getting in without a wind crystal, and I might adjust her protests to clarify that or remove that requirement completely.

Also glad you like the artwork. Sprite art isn’t really a style I’ve had much practice with, and having a limited picture size is a fairly challenging restriction to work around. The fact that the engine comes with a large collection of well drawn enemies I can modify and base characters on helps however. I am considering commissioning some custom art for some more enemies soon though as that feels like something that would really help flesh out the game. An average of just two enemy types per area is really not ideal. I don’t really know who would be a good person to ask though, or even exactly what enemy sprites I want. I’m also planning to draw a few more game over scenes with the generic one of Pacha in a stomach being used in most cases but a few different ones for specific ways to die.

Posted by Astronommy 3 years ago Report

Thank you for further elaborations, and for the words of encouragement!

The trouble with non-professional critique is it often contains a good amount of the audience's wishes and preferences along with all the helpful bits, and trying to incorporate all the contradicting advice can prove to be a Sisyphian task. But to your credit, along all the gracious attention you've paid to my suggestions, you have always patiently explained your technical limitations, and maintained the boundaries of your artistic vision, so I'm content in knowing I wouldn't be able to influence your work for the worse if I tried.

I remember all the mentions of the Hive's hostility and significance in the neighborhood of the Rabbit Village, and yes, those were mostly focused on the Hive's insular and ornery tendencies. But I've already conceded it's not a critical design flaw, there are plenty of ways around and through it, and even from the thematic and aesthetic angle, you've explained how swarms of bees are tricky to introduce to the game. It has just occurred to me that instead of fighting side-by-side, the bees could engage the party in a sequence, i.e. after the first bee has been defeated, a next one shows up to take its place. It would sabotage the devour-release dialogues with individual bees, though, and probably the casualty count, would likely be a chore to code and look confusing to the player, so probably not worth considering.

It would make sense for Pacha and anyone else to only be prepared to consider the game's version of scuba diving when the bare minimum of life support materials are taken along. And seeing how easily it is to get tangled up in a prolonged battle even a few steps away from the riverbank, it's lent credence by the combat system as well as by common sense.

Looking forward to new enemies, even if the artwork gets outsourced! I wouldn't object to some budget tricks getting implemented to expand the game's bestiary, like doing the red-blue zombie way of tinting the same enemy spite into separate ones. You already have an impressive diversity for the mice, for instance, so depending on the area, regular Mouse Warriors could be supplanted by Mouse Rangers/Berserkers instead, offering greater difficulty and rewards, and only the coat color, and probably sprite size, to distinguish them. Or instead of simple diversification, an extra rarely encountered mini-boss version of any given enemy could be added in respective locations to spice up the grinding experience.

Posted by BizzareBlue 3 years ago Report

I think it helps that we both seem to have fairly similar taste in content and my reaction to most of your suggestions has been, “ooooh yes, that really would be good to add.”

Hmmm, I’ve already started putting in a couple of changes to the way the hive combat works that will hopefully make it feel a little more balanced, but at the same time make stun-locking strategies slightly less overpowered in that area.

That’s true… having a bare minimum of one wind crystal does seem like a reasonable precaution for her to take.

Yeah, I have to admit that I have been starting to implement a few of those already in one of the areas I have planned for the next update. Rpgmaker does make tinting the enemies very easy and part of the reason I haven’t used that more so far is that most of the areas added so far have had very little overlap in the type of enemy that would fit in that scene.

Posted by Astronommy 3 years ago Report

Thank you for sharing the details of your working process, as well as you plans for the future!

I hope the new changes will balance the Hive out for good, too! It may not matter as much as it would for a game completely devoid of special interest themes, and even basic fictional indulgences, but I understand the ambition to make the combat aspect of the game a match of its mainstream counterparts!

Incidentally, I believe we have just about pushed the comment-accommodating capacity of this site to its limit. Thank you for finding so much time to devote to these exchanges!

Posted by BizzareBlue 3 years ago Report

I hope so, although the hive always seems to be challenging to balance. I have to admit, getting the combat balanced properly is a part of this I really struggle with. When planning it out, my initial plan was to make the whole game extremely easy so that the player would actively have to try to lose to an enemy to have much chance of seeing their vore scene, but I eventually abandoned that idea. Still, working out how strong to make each enemy is definitely one of the parts I’m least confident about.

And yes. We do seem to be running out of space here.

Posted by Astronommy 3 years ago Report

That try-hard-to-lose gameplay concept sounds amazing, and amusing as to the possible plot and setting that might support that, but it would probably have been too unconventional for the common taste, I agree.

I imagine it's very difficult to balance enemy power against different party sizes: for instance, when designing single enemy encounters, it's hard to make them remain a threat to a party of four without ramping up their attack enough to knock out at least one party member, which would make such an enemy a nightmare for a smaller party, and a roadblock for a solo player; you'd have to either just assume the maximum sized party, make enemies pushovers, or make enemy power scale with party size, none of which are ideal solutions.

You managed to find a way around it quite deftly, though, by making Pacha adept at dealing with individual strong enemies, and capable of learning multiple-hit attacks, benefiting from faster leveling when hunting alone, and also of turning potential party members into experience. I don't know if the game accounts for that, but I suppose scaling the odds of successful retreat from combat with the party size would also work well to allow the smaller parties to avoid harder fights, except the harder fights are often plot-related.

Posted by BizzareBlue 3 years ago Report

Yeah… it kind of influenced the starting area and the forest but I don’t think it would have worked as the game went on.

I guess I tend to balance the game with the assumption that the player will have a full party of four and leave running through with less characters as a challenge for players who really want it. There isn’t much to be gained by doing that though as it will almost always lead to less dialogue and story than having a full party. I guess there are a few places where the game runs through every possible party member in a certain order and stops when it finds one who is in the party and can comment on the
current situation. In that case, you would only see the dialogue of the last character in the list if they were the only other person in the party, so maybe there is a little content to be uncovered that way.

I hadn’t considered making escape easier for smaller parties although that would be a neat balancing idea (and would make a lot of sense, in a small group coordinating a retreat would be much easier). One similar thing that I did put in, however, is that escaping from a stomach is usually far easier when the party is small (mostly because I assumed it would be very frustrating in solo runs to watch Pacha remain stuck in a stomach for turn after turn, particularly if she was high enough level to easily deal with whatever got a lucky devour hit on her). It varies from enemy to enemy, but usually the chance of escaping is at least partially based on the square of the party’s size.

Posted by Astronommy 3 years ago Report

Less story and less dialogue is precisely why I have always kept a full party, and although I keep bringing the solo runs up, it's understandable why that approach wouldn't be popular with most players.

I guess there is the fact that if roleplayed as ultra-predatory individualist, Pacha is able to reduce the number of party members to just Felgate and Ti by taking making the right choices (and that's forgetting about the Devour Ally function). That approach sounds like a fairly extreme self-imposed challenge, though.

It's good to know about the enemy devouring abilities being scaled with the party sized, it is a nice mechanic to have!

Posted by BizzareBlue 3 years ago Report

Yeah... when playtesting I almost always pick a full party as well... so I guess there could be plenty of bugs that I've missed that only crop up with partial parties.

Hmmmm. I guess I need to add some events that allow Pacha to eat Felgate and Ti then.

And thanks. It's probably not anywhere near enough to compensate for the disadvantage of a going through the game with a small party though.

Posted by Astronommy 3 years ago Report

It's safe bet most players would go the full party route, thus sparing them any solo run oddities.

Besides the Devour Ally ability, Felgate and Ti don't present Pacha with enough justification to eat either of them, being fellow predators and not antagonizing the heroine the way Vir may do.

Still, I suppose neither of them fit in with the rest of Traders Town residents, so their disappearance shouldn't bother the guards too much. Ti is found in a very isolated area, and is too starved and depressed at the time to put up much of a fight, so the option might be added there, and Felgate leaves himself open immediately after he deals with his apprentice in a cutscene, being weighted down and feeling well-disposed towards Pacha for her help.

But, again, each of the main characters' demise is a story thread cut short, one fewer voice in the party interactions, and a less diverse combat experience, so a full-on solo playthrough would likely feel too desolate for most players, so amending anything in this department shouldn't be too high a priority.

Posted by BizzareBlue 3 years ago Report

Hmmmm, I guess it seems a little odd to have just two of nine planned characters remain inedible prior to joining the party, especially as they are no more relevant or required for the plot than any of the others. Felgate could arguably give her motive by claiming the chipmonk that Pacha had painstakingly worn down, but I’ll admit that it’s harder to think of a good reason to justify Pacha eating Ti.

Posted by Astronommy 3 years ago Report

It's a tiny, tiny thing; besides, the very notion that every playable character should be devourable is a bit arbitrary, and it stretches thin the game world's cultural phenomenon of a predator/prey class separation. And again, it's doable through other means.

Posted by LunarShield 1 year ago Report

Howdy. Nice game so far! I just have to ask as im stuck.. With the Naga who possiably ate the cat's brother what do you have to do?