Vore, Misogyny, and Guilty Pleasures

[StomachQueen37]

This is a post I’ve had on my mind for a bit now but haven’t been sure whether or not to post it, but I thought it could be helpful to others and me if I tried putting it into words.

I’ve become a pretty big M/F enthusiast. I like other dynamics too but for a bit now M/F has been my main interest. I’m also really heavily on the sub/prey side of the equation which as a bi girl might be part of why it’s become my preferred. As part of being so heavily on the submissive side of things… a lot of my fantasies tend to lean towards misogynistic settings. Where only boys are preds, where girls are naturally magnitudes weaker, where even a wimpy nerdy boy can easily overpower a sports loving tomboy girl, and where society sees women as on a rung below livestock. Being kept as a pet, being sold as animal feed, being inherently worthless outside of food or pleasure because I’m a girl.

And that can also be heavy enough that I have to take breaks from Vore from time to time. It is a guilty pleasure. But also this fetish is about eating and being eaten, and for us fatal vore without reformation lovers, that inherently means murder and being murdered and it’s hot! So what is it that makes the element of misogyny that I like in my vore that makes it feel so much guiltier than the vore itself?

It has to be that misogyny is a real thing in the real world that can and does actually happen while being swallowed whole can’t right? But at the same time, the misogyny that I mentioned above is so far beyond what our current reality is like that it’s as much of a fantasy as being eaten alive. Hell I’ve looked at animals and thought about how they could totally eat me whole but I’ve never been at risk of being put on a leash and having my personhood stripped away. And as hot as that is in fiction it would be pretty horrifying in reality much like vore is.

It’s just odd and I don’t want to change what I’m into and I think that the breaks I take from vore because of it can be healthy. I don’t think it’s wrong for the misogyny part to feel more guilty than the vore part but at the same time I can recognize that it isn’t necessarily more rational. Fetishes are an emotional thing and as long as you can keep a healthy line between your fiction and reality I don’t think that’s a bad thing.

[AutumnSoft]

To me, I'd say it's probably because the misogyny part is rooted in real-world bigotry, taken to an unrealistic extreme in fantasy, unlike vore which is almost entirely fantasy-based and has no bearing at all on things that cause real-world harm. The amount of people who are cannibalized is very, very low, while the amount of people who are victims of misogyny at some point is just about every woman.

Obviously that's not to say you should feel guilty about any of your kinks; with a solid line between fantasy and reality nothing is actually going to cause harm. But I think it's pretty understandable why the misogyny part would feel worse than the vore part.

[TheKawaiiCommie]

Vore is grounded in fantasy and can be equal opportunity, in a sense. Miso kink is always, well... miso kink. It can be exhausting to engage in if you're not an awful person.

[LethiaAzalea]

I'm just gonna step in and say that, yes, a lot of the vore we enjoy is strictly fantasy, that's not to say that there are unfortunate cases of it happening. Anacondas, if memory is correct, have been found with a whole person inside. There was a news article I remember reading where the doc said that it wasn't the crushing that killed the person, but asphyxiation from being inside. That said it's a horrendously terrible incident in real life by all accounts.

Yet we also come from a legacy of hunter-gatherers and even before that, simple primates that live under the fear of it. In a theory, perhaps with our lives so... 'safe' (as much as you accept the word) it becomes almost a thrill to experience such things. It's why people love horrors, slashers and general nightmare-inducing things. We no longer face that on a day to day basis on average, so we seek it out, and some and more prone to specific ones than others.

I'm on the pred side of things, but in some small way, my love of vore came from it's own fear, a fear of being alone. I got introduced to the fetish via a smutty love story (lost to time/obscurity) and at the time, I was insanely scared of losing friends and it clicked. To me, it's almost... an answer to that fear, but my enjoyment of the fetish still, inherently, comes from A fear. Perhaps not of being eaten, but of loss.

Just wanted to add my two cents to this conversation, feels rather interesting. Though won't deny, my biggest fantasy is pretty similar to the OP's fantasy, only... well, I'd still treat woman as equals, they are just nearby and easy meals, from the teller at the grocery store to the first lady~

[GREGOLE]

Ultimately, it all boils down to the same rules you follow for anything kink-related: Keep the fantasy in the realm of fantasy, indulge in it only with willing participants, and give yourself aftercare if you need it. The fact that it's something that would be fucked up to experience in real life is something basically everyone on this website has had to come to terms with on some level. By and large, most folks here are going to recognize that we're playing with scenarios that no one would ever want to happen in reality, so most of them aren't going to make assumptions about your character or your beliefs when they pass by - And those who do will have a lot of pushback against them. It's a lot easier when you find people who you can indulge alongside, who likewise know where the fantasy ends and the real world begins.

We talk about this subject on The Portal a lot, and TBH, I feel like we downplay the importance of the last part. Community and safe outlets are important - I used to be super into M/F, but have since developed a strong, emotional aversion to it after one too many bad experiences with the Eka's M/F community, because I failed to find that outlet. And now I'm stuck with "I am simultaneously aroused and enraged by this" syndrome. It sucks!

You're not alone, both in your preferences, and in feeling guilt for them. But you shouldn't feel guilty - we can't control what turns us on(mostly). It's how we handle our kinks that determines whether or not we're creeps.

[willofwii]

So how you are describing your enjoyment of vore is actually pretty similar to how a lot of heterosexual and bisexual men in Eka’s portal enjoy vore. That is to say they enjoy vore in which the predator is of the sex they are interested in, which for heterosexual men are usually women and for bisexual men either women or men. Likewise it is very common for a lot of men in the community to enjoy vore situations in which there is a heavy exchange of power, in which women or the predators of sex they are interested in have an inordinate power over prey are able to eat prey with little difficulty, have societal power over prey, or many similar situations that you often imagine with male predators. Likewise a lot of heterosexual men in the community tend to also be on the prey side of vore relationship. If you're interested Eka’s portal puts out a survey every year detailing this information.

So I bring this up because the feelings you have as submissive prey oriented bisexual women in terms of fetish/kink desires are pretty similar to your submissive prey oriented male counterparts but with women instead of men. So on the kink side there really isn’t anything wrong with being interested on heavy power exchange between predator and prey sexual.

The issue really lies in the real world societal differences that exist for men and women and how that can affect these experiences with a kink. Since we have systemic sexism that negatively impacts the lives and experiences of women while directly benefiting men, and this systemic sexism places men in a position of power over women. That sexism can have a negative impact on a woman’s experiences and feelings in all aspects of their lives, especially sex.

So for subby men when they fantasize about kinky voracious power exchanges with women and women in charge eating them however they want. There are no feelings of being truly depowered sexually or societally be because in the real world they as men are in a position of power due to sexism. So the sexual fantasy of a voracious power exchange is just that, pure fantasy with no real-world impact on them.

But when you as a woman have fantasies about a sexual power exchange with men in terms of vore, a lot of those fantasies with men in an overwhelming control over you and other women are going to naturally bring up feelings, emotions, and conflations with the real-world sexism you and other women experience. The power exchange between with men in charge and women on the bottom can very easily become similar to real-life sexism women face.

This can be a real problem and barrier women face when enjoying any kink or fetish especially from a submissive side with men. And it can be really difficult if you have a lot of sexual interest in men. It’s just hard to separate the kink from the sexism. And in a lot of ways, you have to set up different things and barriers to help separate the two and protect yourself. It is difficult and very real challenging experience to go through.

[nicktaken]

Let me give a simple analogy.
If playing GTA makes you want to shoot people irl, it's a you problem.

[IddlerItaler]

Let me give a simple analogy.
If playing GTA makes you want to shoot people irl, it's a you problem.

At the same time, if Call of Duty lobbies are any indication, these kind of games are a magnet for the worst and most immature people.

Though I will reiterate my stance that one's kinks and interests do not make a person into a degenerate. That only depends on how they go about it. Being self-aware that vore, misogyny and discrimination kinks are triggers that may each put people off... already puts you way above the curve in terms of human decency on the internet.

[nicktaken]

Being self-aware that vore, misogyny and discrimination kinks are triggers that may each put people off... already puts you way above the curve in terms of human decency on the internet.

Nothing reinforces moralism like the base presupposition that most humans are beneath you, truly.

[ItsSongxing]

If it helps, this kind of gender-based discrimination world is hardly unique in the kink sphere. Vore, futanari, monster girls, and sizeplay often tend towards femdom/malesub settings, for instance; some (e.g. Monster Girl Quest) being very intensely skewed in that direction. We would hardly call them bad people for having a kink for a misandrist world, though.

In the same vein, you are not a bad person for having a kink fantasy about a misogynist world. As long as the kink fantasy does not negatively influence how you treat your peers, it's all well and good.

[IddlerItaler]

If it helps, this kind of gender-based discrimination world is hardly unique in the kink sphere. Vore, futanari, monster girls, and sizeplay often tend towards femdom/malesub settings, for instance; some (e.g. Monster Girl Quest) being very intensely skewed in that direction. We would hardly call them bad people for having a kink for a misandrist world, though.

Yes. Sometimes you will read horror stories where a DND GM inserts sexism into the campaign without anyone agreeing to it and using "that's realistic" as an excuse, and everyone will rightfully walk out, but the baseline assumption remains that a setting with discrimination is indeed more realistic than one without, and as long as it's done in a manner that is deemed tasteful, that makes for a good story.

Take fantasy racism; whether it's dwarves vs elves rivalry, Witcher-style humans oppressing everyone, "monster species" and "civilized species", or even our vorish spin of "predator species" and "prey species", the audience usually thinks nothing of it and sees it as a normal part of life. Monster Girl Quest also arguably falls into it, alongside the femdom aspect. Some even see discrimination as a way to make their vore setting more realistic.

Now, I don't fully agree with this stance and I think it's too dark compared to real life, but some acceptance (and even expectancy for it) is there nonetheless.

Being self-aware that vore, misogyny and discrimination kinks are triggers that may each put people off... already puts you way above the curve in terms of human decency on the internet.

Nothing reinforces moralism like the base presupposition that most humans are beneath you, truly.

I think you are looking too deeply into my statement. Some detachment, and writing some people off, is simply good for your mental health when browsing the internet without going on an ego trip. Like you said in the other thread:

Not by anyone whose opinion is worth the oxygen.

[nicktaken]

I think you are looking too deeply into my statement. Some detachment, and writing some people off, is simply good for your mental health when browsing the internet without going on an ego trip. Like you said in the other thread:

It is a possibility, of course.
Don't take me wrong. I have no issue with basic decency. Just the off-handed dismissal of "the curve" (which in most cases would mean "most people" so that is my assumption) as lacking it.
Which isn't quite a fair comparison to edgy dismissal of people who harass others over preferences in fiction.

[ChaseSilva]

Others have said it better than I, that the feelings you get from misogynistic type verbiage and situations in scenes are based on power dynamics. This is incredibly common for sexual preferences.

Unless guilt gets you off, avoid it. It doesn't do you or anyone any good. You aren't promoting misogyny in the wider world by enjoying your flavor of it privately.

Many dudes here will never get to experience what it is like to be completely at the mercy of a woman who will want to eat him, and they fantasize about that.

Enjoy your 'guilty' pleasures, if humiliation, degradation, or other similar things press your buttons, then press those buttons! Put down the guilt like a sack of rocks. You don't need it. Have fun!

[Zennakus]

I'm just gonna step in and say that, yes, a lot of the vore we enjoy is strictly fantasy, that's not to say that there are unfortunate cases of it happening. Anacondas, if memory is correct, have been found with a whole person inside. There was a news article I remember reading where the doc said that it wasn't the crushing that killed the person, but asphyxiation from being inside. That said it's a horrendously terrible incident in real life by all accounts.

Yet we also come from a legacy of hunter-gatherers and even before that, simple primates that live under the fear of it. In a theory, perhaps with our lives so... 'safe' (as much as you accept the word) it becomes almost a thrill to experience such things. It's why people love horrors, slashers and general nightmare-inducing things. We no longer face that on a day to day basis on average, so we seek it out, and some and more prone to specific ones than others.

I'm on the pred side of things, but in some small way, my love of vore came from it's own fear, a fear of being alone. I got introduced to the fetish via a smutty love story (lost to time/obscurity) and at the time, I was insanely scared of losing friends and it clicked. To me, it's almost... an answer to that fear, but my enjoyment of the fetish still, inherently, comes from A fear. Perhaps not of being eaten, but of loss.

Just wanted to add my two cents to this conversation, feels rather interesting. Though won't deny, my biggest fantasy is pretty similar to the OP's fantasy, only... well, I'd still treat woman as equals, they are just nearby and easy meals, from the teller at the grocery store to the first lady~

Bit of a side note, really, but reticulated pythons are the only species of snake that has ever been documented to consume live humans, and even that is an extraordinary rarity. Also, it is indeed the crushing that would kill the person - if a constrictor large enough to eat a human wraps one up with predatory intent the person will be dead within a couple of minutes, long before the snake has even began to consume them. These animals are unbelievably powerful, even their idle movements can be dangerous to a careless handler - a full power wrap can realistically cause the prey item to explode from the pressure, which does actually happen on occasion; although usually the result is a bit less dramatic, limited "only" to bones shattering, internal organs turning to mush and an inevitable heart attack, which is actually how constrictors of all sizes predominantly kill their prey.

[DroolingPred]

Kink and arousal are separate from rational morality. Personally wanting to be dominated and thinking about a world where that's a matter of course is different from wanting others to be dominated and wanting to actually be in a world like that.

Just like some women aspire to be and want to be tradwives, their desire/aspiration doesn't need to detract from women's empowerment.

Yeah, fatal vore is a murder kink. But the kink doesn't make you a murderer or a murder apologist irl. I do think taking breaks is a fine thing to do, for any aspect of life, for any reason. Switching up your mindset periodically is just good practice.

[Chameleonette]

As someone who went through a lot of guilt for what I enjoy in the vore sphere as an M/F vore enthusiast from day one... I feel you, to an extent. My situation is probably a little different than yours. People can and have given me a lot of shit over my preferences through the years---a lot. Even somewhat recently. There can (an possibly will) be others who push their viewpoints, morals, or personal feelings upon you, relating it to RL problems or calling you misogynistic, etc. But I just try to remember that they're the ones with the problem, not myself. They're the ones that can't separate reality and fantasy. And that at least helps me deal with the guilt part of it. We all have our own answers.

But just remember the core of everything to do with vore: It's a fantasy. And I've always viewed it that way. Perhaps that makes it a lot easier for me in particular, because I don't equate it to RL at all. (And the one time someone anonymously wrote me a story that connected to me IRL with vore and used my real first name and even the place I live, I was horrifically uncomfortable and upset. I just don't like it relating to RL at all.)

And it's completely fine for anyone to not feel comfortable with this or with any type of thing in vore---the line cross is when anyone tries to push that onto you or make you feel bad as a result, or vice versa. So if you haven't been experiencing or doing that, that's great! I've been through it many times, and it took years, but I've accepted what I enjoy in fantasy and ultimately embrace it. Because it's harmless. It doesn't make me actually want to harm myself or seek something problematic and I only engage with people who are into it or very open to it. At the end of the day, it's just something that gives me some secret pleasure, even if a guilty pleasure at times.

I hope you can come to terms with it and balance it in the way that's best for you. And if it ultimately does bother you a lot and you need those breaks---take them. Do what you need to do for yourself to deal with it. Because at the end of the day, that's what matters: Not the world's opinions, not anyone else's view and comfort but your own. If what you're doing feels healthy for you, keep doing what's healthy for you. I wish you the best, and if you ever feel you need to unload about this at all, my DMs are always open. I know the struggles well.

[jaggedjagd]

At the same time, if Call of Duty lobbies are any indication, these kind of games are a magnet for the worst and most immature people.

Pfff come on, dude. The anonymity of the internet mixed with the competitive nature of online gaming will turn the most moralist angel into the worst kind of person. It's virtual road rage, a known phenomenon since the goddamn invention of cars.


On topic. Stop worrying about morals in your fetish. It's dumb. You didn't choose your dumb fetish, so why should you feel responsible for it being fucked up. I've never felt a single pang of guilt over inflicting the worst kind of fates on fictional characters in fictional worlds. Nobody, in the entire universe, is getting hurt from your fantasies. Tell your conscience it's a dumb bitch that needs to stfu and let you enjoy things.

[DevourerOfLolis]

This topic hits really close to home with me. As a fellow massive fan of M/F vore that loves the pred=dom and prey=sub dynamic, many of my own vore fantasies are shockingly misogynistic. In fact, literally everything you described about your vore fantasies also describe my vore fantasies to a degree I kinda feel uncomfortable about. Granted, my vore fantasies have a level worse to them due to me also being a lolicon. None the less, I can relate a hell of a lot to getting off to fucked up vore fantasies then feeling guilty about it later. Something that helps me with getting over the guilt is to compare myself to anyone that enjoys doing cruel things to the NPCs in video games. I'm of the opinion that most adults who play a game of "how many bystanders I can run over before the cops stop me" in GTA or crucified and burned a korok in Zelda TOTK would probably be horrified and even traumatized if they witness the same or similar thing happen in real life. Most people have a healthy distinction between fantasy and reality. As long as you know where that line in the sand is, I honestly don't think you have much to worry about bringing your fetish into real life.

[BeGad]

I come at this from the other side. I'm very much into female prey, and identify from the male pred side of things. And I'm certainly on the dominate side when it comes to fetish stuff. So I can say that these feelings do sometimes run from the other direction too. Your fantasies in fact hit a little close to home for some of my more domineering sides, heh.

But I separate my fantasies from reality, which is what we should expect of everyone. Trying to connect anything in a fantasy to anything in real life is a path down where lay madness. And it's very hard to do today, where we're pressured heavily to put heavy focus on developing a proper pseudo-tribal identity in whatever spaces we inhabit, and to carefully avoid letting slip any hint of thoughts that might veer into the dark side.

But I think of all places this one understands that it's all a fantasy, and you should make that line clear in your head and in interactions.

[Gutlover]

Idk, I'm almost entirely into f/m, f/f. But I don't mind multiple pred orgies. If its not drawn in a manner that glorifies violence of women I don't see a problem. Especially if its consensual.

The same can be somewhat said of graphic digestion, or even hard vore which is closer to cannibalism and is less in the realm of fantasy which sort of has always bothered me by associating it with actual vore.

Makes me wish more people were into unbirth, it has far less ethical baggage compared to regular vore, and is much more about the "being one together" aspect.

It does perplex me how outsiders have no problem with other types of fetishes like r*pe tentacles, but soft vore without digestion which is pretty tame by comparison, is too "wtf" for them.

But I don't like to kink shame, you do you so long as it doesn't hurt anyone irl or isn't illegal.