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DO NOT READ IF YOU HAVE NOT COMPLETELY BEATEN THE GAME.
Undertale is by Toby Fox. http://undertale.com/
All intellectual property is his.
It really bothered me that Asriel turns back into Flowey at the end. I had to do something. Dying so that someone can feel love is better than living a life they might have lived while they remain undying and unable to feel. That seems like hell to me.
I'll save you Flowey. I'll do whatever it takes.
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Posted by Kaheiyattsu 9 years ago Report
I woulda liked a self sacrifice ending as well.
Posted by Lucky 9 years ago Report
Yeah... oh well. If you want somethin' custom tailored, you gotta do it yourself. : 3
Posted by HungrySuccubus 9 years ago Report
KILLIN ME RN
Posted by Lucky 9 years ago Report
THIS STORY DREW ME IN TOO DEEP T_T
Posted by HungrySuccubus 9 years ago Report
IT WAS JUST SO GOOOOOOOOOOOD
Posted by martyr 9 years ago Report
These feels, Lucky....
;_________;
Posted by Lucky 9 years ago Report
His characters are too lovable. T_T
Posted by leonskenedi 9 years ago Report
i feel ... idk how i feel right now
Posted by Lucky 9 years ago Report
Yeahhhhhh complex feelings are the best.
Posted by reliuskaiser 9 years ago Report
This seems more appropriate of an ending anyway.
Posted by Lucky 9 years ago Report
I'm glad you like it, Reliuskaiser.
Posted by reliuskaiser 9 years ago Report
Of course, lucky. Just recently seen the game and i was automatically curious about it.
Posted by dasamppa 9 years ago Report
Seeing this picture fills you with... So many emotions ;w;
I just finished this 2 days ago and here i am again, crying like a baby.
Good job lucky.
Posted by Lucky 9 years ago Report
I'm really glad that it means somethin' to you. I hope it's a fitting ode to Toby Fox's work.
Posted by Flamewarproductions 9 years ago Report
The only morally sound ending is the genocide one. You only kill one innocent monster, everyone else got what they deserved.
Not being edgy or anything, I felt like shit while killing everyone, but in the end when you look back at everyone who was killed, they all had darker motives, with the exception of Toriel.
Posted by Lucky 9 years ago Report
Whoa whoa whoa, dude.
I gotta disagree with you there; although the characters all had reasons for acting the way they did that you or I may not agree with, that doesn't make it "morally sound" to give them all capital punishment.
Even if you're in a fight for your life, I think it's reasonable to use only as much force as necessary to protect yourself.
But there's no trial. You're putting them all to death on your own testimony alone. That's like, sociopath-level of apathy.
Not only that, but you have to intentionally go out of your way to encounter every single monster in every room. That precludes self-defense; that means your behavior is hunting.
I would argue that you have to be amoral in order to take the genocide route.
Posted by Flamewarproductions 9 years ago Report
Tl;Dr:
Compliments on an amazing comic, reasons and reasons for my sociopath decisions, I make a pun, I show that I'm not as massive of an asshole as I could be for liking MY PERCEIVED message of the genocide run.
I have now just realized that I lacked a preface to my previous comment.
To begin, this comic was absolutely mind-blowing and gave me a huge case of the feels. Also, I realized that my use of the term "morally sound" is a bit of a stretch, but just think about it the way I saw it.
You're 100% bang on with how one has to go out of their way to encounter EVERY monster in any given room, however I see this as less of an inert problem and more a small portion of the endogenous mass that is the genocide run as an entity.
Looking at the bosses, I'll try to shine some light as to why I feel that it is less horrific that they could all be killed and still seem moral. During my genocide run, I looked at it using the knowledge from my previous runs.
Toriel was one of the ONLY bosses that really card for you as an entity in her world.
Sans simply didn't murder you the moment he saw you because of Toriel's wishes that you remain safe, which add AMAZINGLY to the story from both the sense of the neutral and pacifist runs.
Papyrus could have been an unstoppable machine had any of his potentially exceptionally lethal traps functioned properly. Couple that with the fact that he had less of a moral compass and more of a road map to success, and that adds up to someone or something that could have the potential to do anything with no remorse.
Undyne was the "w're not so different, you and I" equalizer for the genocide run. In the sense of the genocide run, you were both xenophobic, violent individuals working to free your respective selves from the same hell hole.
Mettaton was more or less a throwaway decider in the genocide run, working more as an indicator as to whether or not you were "Top supreme destroyer of worlds" or "Not as evil as you could have been" (Please note that these are not the direct quotes, and only serve to be mildly entertaining)
Asgore is really my nail in the coffin though. He intends, with the use of the final human soul that you as the player possess, to break the seal and wage war upon the human race with the powers of a god that he would have as a result of having contained the power of 7 human souls.
Asgore never shows any ulterior motive as to why he wishes to annihilate the human race other than "They blamed me for a death I was not responsible for and then sealed me and my mates down here".
Its for this reason that I would say "Morally sound" is a possible, but not the best, term to refer to this run by. You're trading the roughly 70ish monster's lives you must take in order to prevent a being with godlike powers from tearing the human race asunder.
However, let me just close this out real quick like, as reading all of that was likely a pain in the ass. I DID NOT enjoy doing the genocide run, as I couldn't really stand myself for brutally murdering all of the characters that I had come to know and love. In spite of this, I looked back the the whole UNDERtone of the run as the classic "The cost of few for the longevity of many" scenario.
Posted by klonoa723 9 years ago Report
Umh, I think you got something wrong with Asgore... First of all, the human race sealed the monsters because they were afraid of what the monsters could do, and that is being able to absord human souls. Second, ripped straight from TvTropes: "His declaration of wanting to escape the Underground and Kill All Humans was made in anger after the death of his son, and it's clear that he's regretted it ever since. But since said declaration also gave all monsters in the Underground hope of finally seeing the surface again, he has to go through with it now since he doesn't want to let them down. When it finally comes time to fight him, he says that all he really wants is to see his wife and son again."
Also, this comic gave me a deja vu...
If you know the backstory of the first child, then you know why...
At least, here, the intention is not malicious, if some theories are to be believed...
Nice comic.
Posted by Lucky 9 years ago Report
Oh cool, someone else got the counter-balance theme. : 3
Yup, that's the reason Frisk stops Asriel from removing the knife; it's what informs the monsters that will see him that Frisk committed suicide, rather than being murdered by Asriel.
Will they understand though? Will they react any better than the humans did?
There are so many awesome dynamics at play in that story and if it had ended this way. In a way, it's atonement. Ironically, it's the same thing that got him killed (merging with a human soul) that will save Asriel.
I really feel this ending completes a lot of things. <3
Posted by klonoa723 9 years ago Report
I'm more concerned about how Toriel and Asgore would react when they'll see their dead son Asriel suddendly alive again...
Also, I do like your ending and all, but I don't like that Frisk dies. Because, after finishing the game, reading it up on TvTropes and thinking about it myself, I ended up to a conclusion in which Frisk and the player are two different entities, with Frisk being the "host" for the player, or the player influencing Frisk's choices and whatnot. So, unless it's Frisk own choice, I believe that by making Frisk suicide to give his soul to Asriel, the player is pretty much murdering him/her...
I... Don't know if it's sounds stupid or what, it's just... I... Sorry.
(not being a native english speaker doesn't help)
Posted by Flamewarproductions 9 years ago Report
Oh golly. I didn't think that my initial comment would be as well received as it was, but I'm super glad to see that we've generated a whole ton of discussion on the topic. I'm still going back to wikis and other websites and re-replaying the game for the umpteenth time to try and find and more stuff that I may have missed. I just have one more question about this piece as a whole.
Seeing as this is a non-canon ending, which is still AMAZINGLY executed and feely, which route do you feel that a player would have to have taken in order to see this, or is it just a spin on the pacifist ending that just makes me cry more? I only ask this because, in my mind, only the "Real Knife" would have the cutting power to be buried in ones chest in as efficient manner as was shown here. That being said, Frisk could have just as easily done this with the Worn Knife.
Just got me thinking was all. Cheers mate, I hope you draw more Undertale!
Posted by Lucky 9 years ago Report
So, you might be interested in a detail that Jahan noticed; When Frisk dies, his soul breaks in two by itself and then shatters.
This does not happen to Asgore's soul. It does, however, happen to Toriel's soul. Jahan took it to mean that Frisk does not actually have the DETERMINATION to continue on, and that it is actually the DETERMINATION of the player that's guiding him. So the player serves the role of either Angel of death or Angel of deliverance.
I do not subscribe to this theory, as I believe this was a stylistic choice for the sake of the game-over screen. But there is a compelling argument for it.
The other consideration for this is that Frisk seems to have her/his eyes closed the entire time. The only time they are "open" is the post-genocide pacifist run in Toriel's house.
In that instance, the player takes on the image of Chara, who has possessed the player's soul. Another explanation is that the player takes on some physical attributes of Chara once possessed. As we have also seen during the genocide run, Chara can deform it's own body further; it is entirely within the realm of possibility that Chara is deforming Frisk to have eyes that are "open".
For this reason, I don't subscribe to that theory, and also because I don't think it fits with the theme of the overall work. But it's there for your consideration.
Posted by Lucky 9 years ago Report
Alright, I gotta set you straight here, pal.
Papyrus doesn't have a mean bone in his body. You literally CANNOT be killed by him. At worst, he'll beat you a couple times and then give up trying because he thinks you like him. He is the friendliest guy even when he's trying his hardest to be mean.
The introduction of Sans and Papyrus at the start establish that monsters are harmless. They're incompetent or goofy or whatever. They can't even beat a kid.
The only exception is Undyne; who is a zealot. She's been polarized by propaganda and her generally extreme personality. But if you show her she's wrong, she relents and has the potential to change her view of "all humans are bad".
Asgore is pretty bad, but like Klonoa pointed out, he doesn't espouse his own policy of "destroy humanity". The closest he's come to it is the murder of six humans, maybe? It could have been Sans that did it. It's not clear, but Undyne seems convinced that it was Asgore that did it.
But dude, he's got six human souls. He hasn't absorbed any of them. If he really wanted to wage war on humanity, he would have already started. He would have gone out with the first one (as Toriel points out) and collected more. Why stop at seven? He could have just become super corrupt and unstoppable, if that's the way it works.
But he didn't. He probably just sat around (as Toriel puts it) wishing that another human would never come again. It's entirely likely that the other humans that came through killed monsters and just weighed more heavily on his conscience, needing to deliver justice, being the only one capable, but just wanting to be friends with everyone. He's a very torn, sad Papa whose son was killed, and king of a hopeless, depressed people. The fact that you condemn him for this is a little shocking to me.
As for Sans... he could easily have killed other humans coming through there. But he doesn't kill you even if you kill his brother in a neutral run. Yeah, he implies he would have killed you on sight if he hadn't made that promise to Toriel, but I don't buy it. He's also too nice a guy. It takes you methodically murdering EVERYONE before he finally steps in to stop you. Before he "can't afford to not care anymore".
But the most difficult thing for me to reconcile with this is that you self-admittedly feel awful about choosing to hurt these people and yet you are defending the mindset that condones it.
Your inner conflict should be the strongest advocate that your argument is invalid. Look a little harder and I think you'll be persuaded to another point of view.
Posted by UnidentifiedTurian 9 years ago Report
It looks like you took some inspiration from Fatz and his Asriel/Frisk fusion stuff. You even got the heart within a heart looking close to his.
Still. I'm glad you enjoyed the game; it really took me by surprise getting it on its launch day and having the game threw all the stuff it did at me. Bravo Toby.
Posted by Lucky 9 years ago Report
I was unaware there were other artists that took to the canvas before I did.
After reviewing his original comic, I don't like it. It's too easy for Frisk to give away his soul.
Death is messy and scary, and I think it cheapens the sacrifice to skirt around the act of suicide. It strikes me as an easy solution.
I prefer to think that there are differences between Frisk and Asriel that will cause them to resist each other.
Confronting Chara isn't an issue canonically. Nor is dealing with other Floweys, since both the anomalies are merged and finally able to move forward without loading or resetting ever again. So I take issue with drudging up those characters for a conflict.
The bigger issue is dealing with Frisk's corpse and the feelings the monsters will have when they realize what happened.
Suicide is a touchy subject. What will Sans think? How complex will it be for Toriel and Asgore? It's still not the same, either. Asgore has estranged himself from Toriel, forever maybe from killing 6 humans.
There so much that's still messy and unfinished and REAL about the story.
However you look at it, look at all the inspiration that's come out of Toby's writing. He's really great. <3
Posted by UnidentifiedTurian 9 years ago Report
I don't think they ever really go into detail over how exactly a human soul is taken in the game. For that reason, I can suspend disbelief for them binding themselves in body and soul. I don't particularly mind time skip either.
The whole thing with other Floweys and the Fallen Child for that matter, I really wouldn't include those with the main stuff he did. I chatted with him on about it when he first started the fusion stuff, and he said he just wanted to a couple fun crossover stuff with other Undertale art blogs.
Either way. I like both of your sacrifice endings. :p
Posted by Lucky 9 years ago Report
Ummm, dude?
There's six occupied coffins. Undyne and Asgore try to kill you to get your soul. There's passages in Waterfall that discourse on the differences of human and monster Souls which linger *after death*. Asgore, when giving his soul to you, strikes himself to finish himself off.
Based off that context, I don't believe there is a way to separate the soul without first dying within the Undertale universe.
But I can respect people having fun with crossover stuff. People are hungry for more Undertale, and far be it from me to oppose them.
Posted by UnidentifiedTurian 9 years ago Report
Oh yeah. That totally blanked out on me. Sorry. I haven't played the game since I complete it on pacifist. I don't have the heart to reset.
But yeah, I suppose you're right there, and I do agree. It's always nice to get some more fanart of the game. Forgive me for my absentmindedness there. :/
Posted by Lucky 9 years ago Report
Yeah, no worries man. I just... really got sucked into this game and spent a lot of time thinkin' about it. X3
Posted by UnidentifiedTurian 9 years ago Report
You an me both buddy.
If there's one thing I'll give Toby without a single doubt in my mind, it's that he knows how to enthrall an audience... in more ways than one. There are still so many unanswered questions as well, W. D. Gaster being one of largest ones.
Posted by TheNamesJackson 7 years ago Report
Aryion? More like reddit
Posted by Lucky 9 years ago Report
I'm glad you like it, dude. :D
Posted by Moebius 9 years ago Report
I have been overly obsess with this game over the last week. I fear that in the pacifist ending if Frisk dies they will lack a "human ambasador". I wonder what the repercutions of the cultural shock would be.
Posted by Lucky 9 years ago Report
A very valid concern! But the world now has skyscrapers as you see in that sunrise scene and highways during the credits. Under this context, the world has forgotten about magic, I think.
Monsters will probably be treated as "endangered species" and be more like movie stars than anything else. Plus, having a kid represent them doesn't exactly strike me as the best ambassador anyway; many people believe kids can be easily manipulated.
I think they'll be just fine. : 3
Posted by PegaSUS 9 years ago Report
I wouldn't mind this being a canon ending.
Good job with this. That's all I can say.
*Internally cries in a corner.
Posted by MisterEbony 9 years ago Report
Frisk. Selfless. Loving. Sacrificing.
Seeing how far he will go to help his friends...
Fills me with....
...
Sadness.
Posted by cybeast50 9 years ago Report
Man dis game so good i hope a modded story is made if creator allows
Posted by Hermit20 9 years ago Report
Shut up and take my soul goat bro!
Posted by phantom131 8 years ago Report
This comic is great, but personally being undying and unfeeling fit my perfect existence pretty well.
Posted by Nii 8 years ago Report
Oh gosh
The feels
They're hitting me really hard right now ;w;
Posted by TheNamesJackson 7 years ago Report
Wha... Does he have, like, short term memory or something?
Posted by Skelebro3 6 years ago Report
I would put a pun done but this is too sad for that right now.
Posted by Skelebro3 6 years ago Report
Down sorry.
Posted by GoldOasis 5 years ago Report
A soul for a soul. It's only fair that Asriel gets to live after living as a mere flower.
Posted by GoldOasis 5 years ago Report
Add this music to the entire comic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrw3NYx2YQ0
Then that'll really get the waterworks going.